[IC] it is coming... SA RETRO!

[matt3o]

Why not Super, Meta, Hyper, by default instead of Commodore logo, Menu, and Fn?

That would be more standard (for a vintage naming), and the Commodore logo could still go in the OS kit.

What do you think?

I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave

I may still consider meta/hyper though

[Eszett]

Hi Matteo. How about adding blank mods (all row3), alphas (all row3), and intl. keys all row3?

[ryebread761]

You may consider a merged colemak/dvorak kit, as it may be more likely to tip that way as you get dvorak users too. Just a thought.

[Eszett]

I'm not a fan of serving different kits for every exotic wish. However, IMHO modifiers doesn't have to have legends, so blank mods would actually serve as "jokers" for every modifier-remapping one can think of.

[Eszett]

PLEASE check all kits especially the internationals!!!!

As far as I see, three DE keycaps are missing: Q with @, E with €, M with µ.

test2.jpg (3.09 KiB) Viewed 4017 times

And this key here looks (I can't see it properly due to low image resolution) like it got a wrong legend.

test.jpg (944 Bytes) Viewed 4017 times

It should show APOSTROPHE-QUOTE, which looks like a straight vertical line. Not RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK, which looks like a true typographical apostrophe. The character called APOSTROPHE-QUOTE is meant to function as an allround character for single quotation, apostrophe, and prime mark. Therefore the character has to be pretty "shapeless". From the typographical perspective this is rated as an ugly botch, a character to avoid, but we can't redefine the character, it is the way it is.

[Muirium]

Et Mµ Mattiae?

[matt3o]

ok. regarding legends, I'm bound to what Round 5 did. Remember, it's double-shot. Each new legend would make the set more expensive.

There's one last thing though. It seems SP has the full bottom row in semi-matte ROW4. On GH they are pushing to have the bottom row in R4 (as I was originally proposing), while here it seems R3 is preferred.

So was the choice of R3 just a texture issue (that now seems resolved)? Honestly R4 seems more logical to me, but I actually never tried it.

[ctrlX]

Awsome work matt3o!

[Muirium]

4 sounds good. Anyone done it before? If so: pics!

[janvkn]

ok. regarding legends, I'm bound to what Round 5 did. Remember, it's double-shot. Each new legend would make the set more expensive.

There's one last thing though. It seems SP has the full bottom row in semi-matte ROW4. On GH they are pushing to have the bottom row in R4 (as I was originally proposing), while here it seems R3 is preferred.

So was the choice of R3 just a texture issue (that now seems resolved)? Honestly R4 seems more logical to me, but I actually never tried it.

Given the amount of keycaps I ordered in Round 5, I'd consider compatibility with Round 5 a selling point

[7bit]

ok. regarding legends, I'm bound to what Round 5 did. Remember, it's double-shot. Each new legend would make the set more expensive.

<---- 7bit, who sets the standards!

There's one last thing though. It seems SP has the full bottom row in semi-matte ROW4. On GH they are pushing to have the bottom row in R4 (as I was originally proposing), while here it seems R3 is preferred.

So was the choice of R3 just a texture issue (that now seems resolved)? Honestly R4 seems more logical to me, but I actually never tried it.

If you want it logical, take row 5 for the bottom row (it is the 5th row).


But: I take my thumbs for the modifiers, so it is easier with row 3, or even better row 2! I already use row 2 for the LEFT, DOWN and RIGHT keys.


Another rason for row 3 was that the SHIFT keys where row 3 and all 1.25 units keys where row 3, so why not stick to row 3 for all modifiers?

...
Given the amount of keycaps I ordered in Round 5, I'd consider compatibility with Round 5 a selling point

Colors don't really match, so I don't think it would be a good idea to mix them.

[janvkn]

Colors don't really match, so I don't think it would be a good idea to mix them.

I don't know, black alphas and burgundy modifiers could look hot.

[matt3o]

4 sounds good. Anyone done it before? If so: pics!

yes, it has been done, and it looks pretty sick!

If you want it logical, take row 5 for the bottom row (it is the 5th row).

I don't think there's a row-5 in DCS or cherry profile. Aren't the last two rows both R4?

[DanielT]

Cherry has R5, or A profile. GMK doesn't have molds for all the R5 caps this is why on modern sets last 2 rows have the same R4 profile, and it's a good thing. R5 is pretty high, for me it feels weird.

[matt3o]

Cherry has R5, or A profile. GMK doesn't have molds for all the R5 caps this is why on modern sets last 2 rows have the same R4 profile, and it's a good thing. R5 is pretty high, for me it feels weird.

I'm talking about recent times of course. (I'm looking at topre and again the last two rows seem on the same profile)

[7bit]

In the original Cherry profile, there indeed is a row 5!


Kbdfr will post a picture soon.


But again, I'm not a friend of this because I hit the edge with my thumbs, instead of the top surface. But than's only me, you might use some other finger and prefer a different angle.

[Muirium]

Does look pretty sweet. This could be a good distinction for the set from Round 5 and 4 SPH.

And, yes, everything goes with black and white. Round 5 has such universal shades it'll mix fantastically.


@7bit: Of course I use my thumbs to press the mods. And they're perfect when a non-flat profile like row 4, or indeed the way IBM made them. Topre does a nice job there too, of course. Dead flat mods are pretty much your invention, not history's. You're one of those goofy spacebar flippers, aren't you! Or tantamount to it.

[7bit]

@7bit: Of course I use my thumbs to press the mods. And they're perfect when a non-flat profile like row 4, or indeed the way IBM made them. Topre does a nice job there too, of course. Dead flat mods are pretty much your invention, not history's. You're one of those goofy spacebar flippers, aren't you! Or tantamount to it.

If I filp the space bar, it is just the same thing as before.


Also: Remeber that there was another reason:
1.25 units keys exist only in row 3, did this change?


BTW: Penumbra is
row 1

row 2
row 3
row 3
row 3
row 4

[matt3o]

Honestly, I have to agree with 7bit. I hit the bottom row exclusively with my palm (left ctrl) or my thumb and row3 seems a smarter idea.

That being said the difference between R3 and R4 is so small that I don't think it would be a problem and if people prefer R4, so be it.

BTW: Penumbra is
row 1
row 2
row 3
row 3
row 3
row 4

That was the layout I was originally proposing and everyone was going "Are you maaad?!?! Think of the kids!"

[Muirium]

Wait, you're still up to altering the other rows too? Sorry for my misunderstanding. That setup STINKS!! I thought you meant:

Function row: Row 1 or 3
Number row: Row 1
QWERTY row: Row 2
Home row: Row 3
ZXCVB row: Row 4
Bottom row: Row 4 (besides the spacebar).

Repeating rows in the alphas is to be avoided at all costs. Think of the profile!


http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/keyc ... t9847.html

It's all about forming a smooth curve. Not jarring discontinuities.

[matt3o]

The two possibilities are:

1-1-2-3-4-3
or
1-1-2-3-4-4

(previous post was just digressing)

[Muirium]

Cool.

The bottom row is exceptional, in any case. We don't have a true Row 5 to keep the curve going, and the spacebar is differently profiled too. It's really just a choice in whether you want SPH style mods or nice ones instead! Provided that 1.25u row 4 is indeed really available. (In whatever state of pre-shined texture!)

[matt3o]

I'll ask Melissa if R4 is indeed available in semi-matte. If not, the question is closed.

[Muirium]

While you're at it: thoughts on PBT SA spacebars?

[7bit]

There exist row 5, it is row 1 turned by 180 degrees. It would require a steeper keyboard angle (13 degrees instead of 7), but the space bar would still be row 3.

[matt3o]

SA is available in PBT. I already have a couple of SA spacebars actually. Problem is color matching

[Muirium]

I'd like a white one and a black one. Round 5 style!

But then again, colour matching is all about "which white? and which black?" Ungh…


Re: "Row 5", good point. I have exactly zero SA caps here right now, but that sounds like an amusing experiment: inverted row 1 mods. I already use row 4 arrow keys, with a row 2 up arrow on top, which works admirably.

[7bit]

I just tried it and it really is no good idea, unless you love super steep keyboards. I never use the feet of a model M or F.

[Muirium]

Me neither. In fact, I don't extend the feet on any keyboards. I like 'em riding low.

[matt3o]

I don't know, the guy seems pretty bad ass.