Topre introducing RGB, actuation control and analog switches

[Spikebolt]

What have they done to you, my friend...

[Muirium]

"Heavenly."

[Mal-2]

What have they done to you, my friend...

My Little Rainbow: Typing Is Magic

[Findecanor]

XBox and PS3 gamepad protocols are the most popular ones for third-party gamepads. In DirectX previous joystick/gamepad interfaces have been deprecated in favour of the XBox-gamepad API. Previously, each user would have to map each button and axis in the game manually, but with the X-Box-gamepad API each button is already mapped.

I am writing a firmware for the AVR that would allow devices to work as either a keyboard or a gamepad, or both at the same time as a composite device. XBox and PS3 gamepad protocols are definitely on the TODO-list. I started writing in MIDI support at one time but I thought "Nah.. Nobody would really be interested in that". Also, MIDI over USB is not a HID protocol so it would be a bit more complex.

[002]

Here's a Japanese article about the prototypes that were at Computex:
http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20150605056/

There's a YouTube video embedded there too but I think it's not really a great way to demonstrate it:

Some more pics lifted from that article:

"ANKB Application", for adjust actuation settings. There are 256 levels. Setting it to a low value like '10' will make it very sensitive.


Showing capitalising letters without holding shift


Fully sick, bro!

[Muirium]

It will be interesting to see which parts of the software is in the drive and which is in the firmware. Analog keys must have a custom driver right, or are some keys going to turn up as a USB gamepad or something?

Yup. Unless it's a useless fluff feature like hitting hard to CAPITALISE (please don't!) or to rrrreeeepppeeeaaattt (rreeaallyy ddoonn''tt dooo tthhatt..).

Between this and the Windows app (just like Tipro!) you can tell I'm really stoked.

I like the Topre cap, though. A real crowd pleasing announcement would be Topre actually selling the caps we want!

[matt3o]

the actuation point can be stored on the firmware no problem. pressure sensitivity is a midi standard I guess, so no special drivers would be required (in MIDI mode). The fact that you have dedicated keys on the keyboard to switch from one device to another makes me think that all modifications are stored in the firmware but I could be completely off.

If a dedicated driver is required I would be completely uninterested. (that and the fact that the keyboard is full size)

[Muirium]

Oh I'm absolutely sure this is all quite simple and contained within the controller. Tlt's speculation was before the show, when Topre went for the just the lowest hanging fruit I predicted.

I could see playing around with Midi on this. Maybe the occasional bit of old school keyboard driving game: now with actual steering. But that Windows app pisses me off. Tipros are a pain in the arse to configure when you can't any time you want to.

[AlexdeL]

I lament with Spikebolt...

Honestly, I am not excited with these LED light (infested!) Topres. What I want is a 60% Realforce with hipro!

[Mal-2]

pressure sensitivity is a midi standard I guess,

Twice over. There's a parameter for how hard the key is initially struck (Velocity), and an ongoing parameter that is sent to reflect how hard the key continues to be held (Aftertouch). In MIDI, these things are sent only when they change. With some parameters (pitch bend, aftertouch, and breath most notably) this can be dozens of times a second.

MIDI also uses separate Key Down and Key Up codes just like a normal typing keyboard, also simplifying the use of the protocol.

[Muirium]

I'm looking forward to either trying one of these myself or, perhaps more likely, hearing a report on what they're like from someone else who knows their way around a piano. Midi keyboards are mostly pure linear (and lots of it: they generally have much more travel than text keyboards) while some of the high end ones (like my beloved Nords) are weighted to feel more like a real piano. That weighting is pretty literal: they have mechanisms for each key that swing a weight around, so that each press feels different depending on how you strike it.

Our kind of keyboards don't really do that. But the ones that come closest are, coincidence or not, among my favourites. Topre and beamspring both have a good swing to them. Not swing like a hammer about to bash a string, but there is something there besides other switches' tactile bump mechanisms and plain jane linear.

So, the question then becomes: what does a Topre brand electric piano feel like! I want to know how much of a sense you get of hitting something tangible with every note. Or really, I want to feel it.

(Honestly though, I expect a quick and dirty hack, like the OMG HIT TEH KEYS AND GET CPAS LOK! feature alongside this. They might have lucked into something interesting, as the Topre feel is pleasant enough, but who knows without trying it in person.)

[002]

More pics, videos and details here (also in Japanese):
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news ... ml?ref=rss

Swedish article:
http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/20644- ... aktivering

[Kurk]

These analog Topre switches will probably be linear, right?
What about the possibility to change the actuation point of tactile switches? There was this picture of a Realforce with a turning knob....
Found it on weekly.ascii.jp

[002]

The "Knobforce" is an early prototype from a few years ago. The keyboards shown at Computex work in the same way but can be controlled with software and don't require the knob. Knobforce will always hold a special place in my heart for its gaudiness though

Topre's demo at Computex this year uses their existing switch design, which means it has to be tactile, as that's the only switch type they offer. I think they at least understand that the analog switches are going to be much better suited on a linear switch. Doing a mod like this on a 30g Topre would probably be a good start.

[Muirium]

I like the Knobforce. It's cross platform!

I like individual switch actuation control, too. But I'd much rather Topre did it all on the keyboard (press a key combo to enter program mode, then press the keys you want to change, then dial in their new setting). The trouble with software on the client is it's always Windows only and (if Tipro and Access are anything to go by) it always stinks. Keyboards contain many options (look at all the keys!) and that means a sucky interface bites you over and over.

Hmm. Here's a thought. Programmability on the keyboard itself is one place where per-key LEDs make sense for user feedback. I doubt Topre's doing anything as useful on the Type Heaven though. Blinkenlights! Check.

[zipeldiablo]

At last ! Topre with backlit, don't care about rgb but backlit is the real deal

[002]

http://www.4gamer.net/games/317/G031703/20160520113/

Topre showed off their analog board and RGB Type Heaven again today.
Not much else to note, but you can see that they have branded their actuation control software 'REALStation' now, and it shows a few more shots of the UI.

Some points on the RGB keyboard:

• Apparently it won't be called the Type Heaven any more.
• They hope to release it some time this year.
• Estimated price ~25,000 yen.
• Previously it seems that the RGB prototype had the feature of switching between 4 actuation steps using a Fn key (1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm, 3mm). It's now been reduce to 3 steps; 1.5mm, 2mm, 3mm. From what I can understand, it seems that the 1mm point was simply too ambitious and you could probably fart near the keyboard and actuate it at that level.

[Wodan]

I'm too old for this shit

[Khers]

I agree with Wodan, but while RGB isn't my cup of tea (especially given the software requirement), the actuation control sure is interesting. However, I don't quite understand the merit of actuation control on a tactile switch like Topre as I personally think that tactile switches actuating before the tactile bump is a very weird typing experience (though I've only tried it involuntarily with one broken Alps switch in a board of fully functional ones) and thus I can't really see why you'd actively want to achieve something like that.

Linear switches on the other hand, now that would be rather cool... I guess achieving it would require something like a linear Topre ( ), a (modified?) Hall effect or something similar where the slider position could be determined thorughout the travel. Would it be possible for Topre to modify the dome so that it wouldn't buckle, instead behaving like a Hookean spring?

[TuxKey]

i'm not seeing what i wanted to see and that's mx compatible topre board and removable usb cable..
After reading what gamers buy and how much they are willing to spend on a keyboard
Well never mind..hardly worth the effort

[esoomenona]

However, I don't quite understand the merit of actuation control on a tactile switch like Topre as I personally think that tactile switches actuating before the tactile bump is a very weird typing experience (though I've only tried it involuntarily with one broken Alps switch in a board of fully functional ones) and thus I can't really see why you'd actively want to achieve something like that.

Actually, I agree with you that tactile switches actuating before the bump is weird, but I think the actuation control is a good thing, because it's been my personal experience that Topre switches do just that. The actuation doesn't take much, even with 55g. When you start typing quickly, that disconnect is not really noticeable, but type slower, or if you rest your hand on your keyboard, you notice it very quickly. I wouldn't mind lowering it a bit.