F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Muirium · 20 Jul 2015, 13:50

Curved backplate = curved caps = a limit on how tall they can be before they literally collide. I like SA, too. But I have trouble imagining something that tall working well on buckling spring! IBM's caps are pyramid shaped on the side for a good reason.

andrewjoy · 20 Jul 2015, 13:54

guess i will have to settle for SA PBT on cherry if they are ever made

Muirium · 20 Jul 2015, 13:58

Matteo's working on something like that. He's mentioned it a few times. Think he's done with doubleshots. Or ABS at least…

andrewjoy · 20 Jul 2015, 14:39

ooo nice ! SA PBT Dyesub or even doubleshot would be amazing

now back to IBMs

Vizir · 20 Jul 2015, 16:35

Why not replicate the beamspring keycaps?

Muirium · 20 Jul 2015, 16:48

Also applies to beamspring:

Muirium wrote: ↑Nice idea. But we've talked it to death. Buckling Spring sits inside the cap. MX compatibility would add a horrendous amount of extra height right on the top.

Buckling springs sit deep within their caps. Their geometry is very unusual.

bhtooefr · 20 Jul 2015, 17:48

Essentially, Alps doesn't protrude very far from the cap, so therefore the spring can still sit partially in the cap on Alps. It's not as good as straight BS caps, where the spring can go all the way to the top, but it's better than MX.

Relevant images of webwit's Teradrive board (one of the several Supermembrane boards):

Muirium · 20 Jul 2015, 18:10

So a complete redesign of buckling spring is still required? Rendering it incompatible with its own historical supply of caps. So to be compatible with a another cap mount with several orders of magnitude less desirable caps available than (yes evil) MX. Hmm.

Buckling spring, despite its name, won't cave in so easily! We really do need to make caps specifically for it if we do anything at all.

bhtooefr · 21 Jul 2015, 02:48

It wouldn't necessarily have to be as complete as the Teradrive - I suspect a reasonable Alps adapter could actually be made, although it'd require sideways caps. Alternately, rotate the buckling spring assembly 90 degrees and use an Alps adapter designed for that, but that wouldn't be compatible with IBM caps.

rsbseb · 21 Jul 2015, 04:13

I have started a thread to further discuss Buckling Spring caps (sphericals)

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/sphe ... 11186.html

Ellipse · 23 Jul 2015, 03:43

As an update, supplier negotiations for the full run are going well but prototyping is not as well for for a reasonable cost unit. I was quoted as high as $1,800 by one place for a prototype of just the case for one of the two designs!

Does anyone here have access to an inexpensive CNC mill for plastic and/or aluminum? At least for the prototype. Please PM me if you can help.

Vizir · 28 Jul 2015, 05:19

how difficult would it be to make a case like the renders linked by Muirium

Ellipse · 28 Jul 2015, 05:58

Nice design! Vizir unfortunately it would require a complete redesign of every part to fit such a small case and a delay of at least several weeks for the redesign and re-quoting. That design appears to be for a Model M style keyboard. Given the extra space around the sides for the Model F capacitive PCB traces plus the xwhatsit controller part I don't think it would be easy. The goal of this F62 Kishsaver/F77 project is a faithful tribute to the original design, and I am already in talks to get prototypes out.

Vizir · 28 Jul 2015, 17:24

If this venture is successful, I'm thinking making designs like in the renders would be possible. Perhaps someday even a split ergo.

andrewjoy · 28 Jul 2015, 17:26

Ellipse wrote: ↑As an update, supplier negotiations for the full run are going well but prototyping is not as well for for a reasonable cost unit. I was quoted as high as $1,800 by one place for a prototype of just the case for one of the two designs!

Does anyone here have access to an inexpensive CNC mill for plastic and/or aluminum? At least for the prototype. Please PM me if you can help.

can you not do the prototype in plastic ? or was that 1.8k for the plastic prototype ?

Ellipse · 28 Jul 2015, 17:47

Andrew - the prototypes will be made of what I am using in the full run - aluminum case (powdercoated beige or gray) and steel inner plates matching the original gauge. I asked for plastic CNC milling help to prototype the barrels/flippers. That request is still needed!

Yes vizir. I am making extra barrels and flippers for future projects anyone in the community has in mind. If anyone wants to order a keyboard's worth of barrels/flippers or more for your own project ideas, please PM me.

Ellipse · 30 Jul 2015, 05:42

I am trying to get a count of the HHKB style Kishsaver interest. We are definitely going forward with the HHKB style right shift option - I just need a general idea of how many of those PCBs to make.

Please let me know if you are interested in the HHKB style split right shift option with the caps lock style key and a regular 1u key replacing the larger right shift on the new F62 Kishsavers? So far about 5 of you have expressed interest in the Google docs form. I will be ordering all of these next week along with the PCB prototypes. All the prototypes, plus all the split right shift F62s, will have separate controllers like the xtant PCB in order to keep costs reasonable. orihalcon sells the separate controllers for about $38 or so, and I have some extras too. I will order a few extra F62 split right shift PCBs to anticipate further interest.

Some good news: with the current level of interest (about 86 keyboards reserved so far) it looks like you can order either one of these for $325 if you bring your own keycaps ($350 if you want Unicomps).

Would anyone be interested in paying $40 for an original Model M keyboard to share caps with (you would receive the Model M keyboard too!), or would you prefer bring your own caps / the $25 or $30 unicomp caps with custom printed F1, F2, etc. like on the original Kishsavers/4704s? I may be able to locate 10 or 20 Model M's at that bulk price.

andrewjoy · 30 Jul 2015, 10:33

Ellipse wrote: ↑I am trying to get a count of the HHKB style Kishsaver interest. We are definitely going forward with the HHKB style right shift option - I just need a general idea of how many of those PCBs to make.

Please let me know if you are interested in the HHKB style split right shift option with the caps lock style key and a regular 1u key replacing the larger right shift on the new F62 Kishsavers? So far about 5 of you have expressed interest in the Google docs form. I will be ordering all of these next week along with the PCB prototypes. All the prototypes, plus all the split right shift F62s, will have separate controllers like the xtant PCB in order to keep costs reasonable. orihalcon sells the separate controllers for about $38 or so, and I have some extras too. I will order a few extra F62 split right shift PCBs to anticipate further interest.

Some good news: with the current level of interest (about 86 keyboards reserved so far) it looks like you can order either one of these for $325 if you bring your own keycaps ($350 if you want Unicomps).

Would anyone be interested in paying $40 for an original Model M keyboard to share caps with (you would receive the Model M keyboard too!), or would you prefer bring your own caps / the $25 or $30 unicomp caps with custom printed F1, F2, etc. like on the original Kishsavers/4704s? I may be able to locate 10 or 20 Model M's at that bulk price.

I would be interested in stealing what i can from a bigfoot.

Khers · 30 Jul 2015, 10:45

Ellipse wrote: ↑I am trying to get a count of the HHKB style Kishsaver interest. We are definitely going forward with the HHKB style right shift option - I just need a general idea of how many of those PCBs to make.

Please let me know if you are interested in the HHKB style split right shift option with the caps lock style key and a regular 1u key replacing the larger right shift on the new F62 Kishsavers? So far about 5 of you have expressed interest in the Google docs form. I will be ordering all of these next week along with the PCB prototypes. All the prototypes, plus all the split right shift F62s, will have separate controllers like the xtant PCB in order to keep costs reasonable. orihalcon sells the separate controllers for about $38 or so, and I have some extras too. I will order a few extra F62 split right shift PCBs to anticipate further interest.

Some good news: with the current level of interest (about 86 keyboards reserved so far) it looks like you can order either one of these for $325 if you bring your own keycaps ($350 if you want Unicomps).

Would anyone be interested in paying $40 for an original Model M keyboard to share caps with (you would receive the Model M keyboard too!), or would you prefer bring your own caps / the $25 or $30 unicomp caps with custom printed F1, F2, etc. like on the original Kishsavers/4704s? I may be able to locate 10 or 20 Model M's at that bulk price.

Should I resubmit the form if I'm interested in the HHKB-style but haven't expressed the interest in the form? Also, I assume the controller you mention is xwhatsit's model F controller, yes?

macmakkara · 30 Jul 2015, 11:28

Im interested in HHKB style one but i can't afford anything at the moment...

hammelgammler · 31 Jul 2015, 19:04

I think i didn't mentioned it in the interest form, but i would be interested in the HHKB style one too.

Just to know, will there be a black powdercoating option? I would love to have the F77 in complete black.

I think a HHKB F77 style won't be possible right? I think i'm the only one who would want that.

Muirium · 31 Jul 2015, 19:09

No, I'd like that too! But I fear we are outvoted by a large margin.

Ellipse · 31 Jul 2015, 20:22

Ok I will try to make black powdercoating an option. If you haven't suggested a preferred color in the interest form please let me know. So far I expect gray, off white/beige, and black.

HHKB F77 would probably add $100 to the cost of your keyboard for tooling and PCB charges, or $50 with two paid orders, etc. So you would be looking at around $485 instead of $385 with shipping to Europe, excluding keycaps. Or $435 if two people order F77 HHKB, etc.

Ellipse · 31 Jul 2015, 20:23

Khers - I will make a note, so no need to resubmit. Yes that is the controller.

My expected timeline is to order a prototype next week and then after assembling and testing it, in three to five weeks start taking orders where you can specify requested colors, keys (if any) and layouts. I will probably make some extras to sell later on and at a higher price to help recoup the mold/tooling costs, so everyone who gets in before then will get the best price.

kuato · 31 Jul 2015, 20:32

I can't believe I missed this thread... Just signed up for an F77.

chzel · 31 Jul 2015, 20:34

I had missed the form, I just submitted!

cods · 01 Aug 2015, 00:15

Lovely. In for an F62. Form submitted.

Redmaus · 01 Aug 2015, 01:18

kuato wrote: ↑I can't believe I missed this thread... Just signed up for an F77.

Long time no see!

hammelgammler · 01 Aug 2015, 03:03

Ellipse wrote: ↑Ok I will try to make black powdercoating an option. If you haven't suggested a preferred color in the interest form please let me know. So far I expect gray, off white/beige, and black.

HHKB F77 would probably add $100 to the cost of your keyboard for tooling and PCB charges, or $50 with two paid orders, etc. So you would be looking at around $485 instead of $385 with shipping to Europe, excluding keycaps. Or $435 if two people order F77 HHKB, etc.

Well, would anyone be interested in ordering a F77 HHKB style?
Maybe we can get a few people to get the cost down for it per person.

Ellipse · 01 Aug 2015, 04:02

Yes anyone interested in an F77 HHKB please let me know.

Everyone interested would most likely just have to split about $100 in extra tooling costs plus a little extra for the PCB. The more ways it is split, the lower the cost of the F77 HHKB style split right shift option.