F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[0100010]

I'll be at the opposite corner of the US in December, is that any good!?

Anyway, these new stabs of yours are intriguing. My Kishsaver's got a broken spacebar stab that's still needing fixed:

Are you looking for a replacement? I don't have any white ones left though, just black ones. Not sure if you would be able to remove that broken one w/o disassembling the plates though.

[Techno Trousers]

A question for Ellipse here,

Have you designed and made a Label/Sticker for your new Keyboard yet?

Oh, wow, this is a fantastic idea! If you do create a label, Ellipse, please make it extra durable (metallic stock?) with permanent inks, and most importantly include that critical "born on" date. Even if the entire batch has the exact same date, I want to see it proudly there on the bottom of my keyboard, so my kids and grandkids can have that link to the past when I hand it down to them.

Those dated labels are one of the most special things about the vintage IBM boards, especially the big, laminated, barcode labels on the F122s and early Model Ms. It just underscores how painstaking the engineering and care was that went into their design and manufacture, and how we'll never again see mass-produced electronics as durable and relevant to future generations as those have proven to be.

[wcass]

wcass I will epoxy or glue the prototype tabs myself for the prototypes, as I want to optimize placement with the prototypes in hand before specifying final placement to the factory.

I expect they will be welded or maybe epoxied to the final top inner assemblies - any preferences? I doubt that they will need to be moved once they are in place.

Yes andrew they should fit those F spacebars, though I can't say for sure until I have everything in hand (which should be hopefully around the end of next week).

Is anyone going to be in NY later this month or in December? Maybe I can schedule "office hours" to try out these keyboards?

I would prefer welded. I used JB Weld (epoxy) to attach a similar stab on a modified Model F AT - it didn't hold up as well as i had hoped.

Model F space bar stabilizers use thinner wire and do not extend as far out as Model M space bar stabilizers. I think that a vintage Model F space bar would not work as well as a Model M one.

[Ellipse]

Yes Elrick and Techno I will include labels with birthdates and serial numbers. They will be similar to the original silver-colored 4704 labels but with no logo.

wcass I am leaning towards welding the spacebar tabs for maximum reliability.

Soon after the prototypes arrive and have been photographed/tested, the greatest help that can be offered is in getting the word out on these keyboards and maybe getting distributors and the press/bloggers interested in these keyboards. This is probably the most important part to the success of this project. If anyone has expertise or can offer their help in any of those fields please do chat with me over PM.

[andrewjoy]

On that , if you have enough prototypes it may be worth sending them to popular tech reviewers on youtube and the likes. I know there MO is usually for MX and LEDS and the likes but they like good quality.

Someone like linus, techsindicate OC3D etc.

[Muirium]

I'm up for reviewing one, side by side with my real Kishsaver.

But I suspect you're counting DT as already in the bag!

[andrewjoy]

Man it would be so cool if that original kishaver could just fall into my unicomp group buy shipment

[Muirium]

I'd need serious $BRIBE for that.

[andrewjoy]

Will you be selling replacement mats by the way ? My 107 is bit sick and needs a new mat

[Elrick]

It just underscores how painstaking the engineering and care was that went into their design and manufacture, and how we'll never again see mass-produced electronics as durable and relevant to future generations as those have proven to be.

For the FIRST time here we have an opportunity to finally acquire not only a piece of ancient history but also something that is extremely rare amongst keyboards.

Because it's Ellipse's creation and he has poured so much of his own time and money into this project just like IBM had done all those years ago.

Out of all types of keyboards I purchased over the years this one right here and now is the opportunity of a lifetime. You miss out on this there will never be a Stage 2 or second manufactured run to occur.

If you adore the Model-F then this Project is the one to be in and for once I would love to own a piece of American history here, like a re-manufactured 1967 Shelby Cobra. Beautiful to look at and use and every time you get your fingers to play upon the keys it's like traveling back in time and experiencing what real keyboards were like and how perfect they really were.

[andrewjoy]

Indeed its something special and its worth every penny. And you know what , the AC Corba was something that came to me as soon as i saw this project as well, even the reproductions are something special.

But i mean look at this project, looks whats getting made and for the price. Sure it won't be 100% identical to a IBM , but its the next best thing , and for what you are getting the price is cheap imo.

[Samir]

So is the official code name of this project "AC Cobra" now?

Ooo ooo, or just name the boards--"Kishsaver Cobra" and "F77 Cobra". Those have a nice ring to them.

[XMIT]

Hmm. I originally reserved an F77 but now I may want an F62. Or both! Is it too late to change my mind?

[Ratfink]

How could it possibly be too late? Nobody has paid for a keyboard here. No commitments have been made!

[andrewjoy]

I'd need serious $BRIBE for that.

Oh my its even unix layout , this is exactly the layout i want

[Muirium]

Almost perfect. Just needs a split right Shift. I'd love to see what that's like on Ellipse's prototype. I have to use the bottom corner key as a 1.5 unit Fn instead, which isn't quite right. I want it HHKB style.

[Hypersphere]

No doubt this has been asked previously, but I could not find the post. Will one of the layout options on the F62 include a split Right Shift with the 1.00 unit key to the right of the 1.75 unit shift or, because of the available keycap designs, will this only be possible the other way around, with the 1.00 unit key to the left of the 1.75 unit shift? (or perhaps not at all).

The reason I ask is that I would plan to use a HHKB layout on the F62. It it would not be possible to put a Fn key to the right of the Right Shift, I would default to using the Right Ctrl (far-right key on the bottom row) as my Fn key, which is what I do on my conventional 60% and most other keyboards.

[Muirium]

Yes. True HHKB style split Shift. 1.75u with a 1u Fn key on the right hand side.

Ellipse is even offering the TKL sized 77 key with a split right Shift as well. The downside to both these models is they won't be compatible with standard right Shifts. You'll have to use a stepped Caps Lock key for the 1.75u right Shift. Unicomp can print SHIFT on them for us no problem. But vintage caps will force a compromise.

[andrewjoy]

nah not a fan of the split shift , you have the caps lock you can use as FN

you have the 1x1 on the bottom row for win/command

or you could use caps as command and right bottom row 1x1 as FN

it just looks amazing! If only unicomp still had the die for the unstepped caps lock that we know existed at some point.

Just to reiterate , the layout of the Mu original is the unix layout i want , is that available ?

[Muirium]

I believe so.

@Ellipse: Got some layout diagrams for us? They'd be handy to settle questions like this whenever they come up.

[Hypersphere]

nah not a fan of the split shift , you have the caps lock you can use as FN

you have the 1x1 on the bottom row for win/command

or you could use caps as command and right bottom row 1x1 as FN

it just looks amazing! If only unicomp still had the die for the unstepped caps lock that we know existed at some point.

Just to reiterate , the layout of the Mu original is the unix layout i want , is that available ?

The 1 unit keys on the bottom row are not quite right for me as Fn keys. I need something farther to the right, and preferably to the right of a shortened right shift key. In other words, exactly as done in the HHKB Pro 2.

I also use the CapsLock position as Left Ctrl.

[andrewjoy]

Each to his own i guess.

[Muirium]

That's how I have my Kishsaver mapped. Pure HHKB style. Caps Lock is Control. Shift + Shift = Caps Lock macro. The two extra keys (the red Control keys in the photo) are the interesting ones. I use the one on the right as Fn of course, which is missing from where it should be on an HHKB.

The left corner key, meanwhile, I use as another Control — my fingers insist on using it when they feel it's there! — and I have layer lock macros setup when I use it with the number row. Control + 1 = navigation layer lock. Control + 2 = numpad layer lock. Control + Esc = return to base layer.

Here's my config:

Code: Select all

# Base Layer
0x02 0x02 0x1e 0x1f 0x21 0x23 0x25 0x27 0x2e 0x35 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02
0x02 0x02 0x29 0x14 0x20 0x22 0x24 0x26 0x2d 0x31 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02
0x02 0x02 0x2b 0x1a 0x15 0x1c 0x0c 0x13 0x2f 0x30 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x01
0x02 0x02 0xe4 0x04 0x08 0x17 0x18 0x12 0x31 0x2a 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x01
0x02 0x02 0xe1 0x16 0x09 0x0b 0x0d 0x33 0x34 0x28 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02
0x02 0x02 0x64 0x1b 0x07 0x0a 0x0e 0x0f 0x38 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02
0x02 0x02 0xe2 0x1d 0x06 0x05 0x11 0x37 0xe6 0xe5 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x01
0x02 0x02 0xe0 0xe3 0x19 0x2c 0x10 0x36 0xe7 0xd0 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02 0x02

# Layer 1
0x00 0x00 0x3a 0x3b 0x3d 0x3f 0x41 0x43 0x45 0x4c 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xa5 0x00 0x3c 0x3e 0x40 0x42 0x44 0x49 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x39 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x46 0x48 0x52 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe4 0x81 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x47 0x32 0x4c 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe1 0x80 0x00 0x55 0x54 0x50 0x4f 0x58 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x87 0x00 0x7f 0x4d 0x4a 0x4b 0x51 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe2 0x00 0x00 0x03 0x57 0x4e 0xe6 0xe5 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe0 0xe3 0x4e 0x2c 0x56 0x4d 0xe7 0xd0 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00

# Layer 2
0x00 0x00 0x1e 0x1f 0x00 0x00 0x60 0x00 0x57 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x29 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x5f 0x61 0x56 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x5d 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe4 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x5c 0x5e 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x59 0x55 0x00 0x58 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x5a 0x5b 0x54 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe2 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x63 0xe6 0xe5 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe0 0xe3 0x00 0x2c 0x62 0x00 0xe7 0xd0 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00

# Layer 3
0x00 0x00 0x1e 0x1f 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x29 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe4 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x00 0x00 0xe0 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00

# Layer Conditions
(1 0 0)	1
(0 1 0)	2
(1 1 0)	3
(0 0 0)	1
(0 0 0)	1
(0 0 0)	1
(0 0 0)	1
(0 0 0)	1

# Column Skips
[1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0]

# Expansion header
+ 1 50 60

# Macros
{
	0xe1
	0x20
	0x20
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0x39
	0xe5
	0x02
	0x02
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0x39
	0x29
	0x88
	0x4c
	0x04
	0x00
	0x03
	0x08
	0x01
	0x35
	0x29
	0x01
	0x01
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0xd8
	0x1e
	0x01
	0x01
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0xd9
	0x1f
	0x01
	0x01
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0xda
	0x20
	0x01
	0x01
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0xdb
	0xa5
	0x01
	0x01
	0x02
	0x00
	0x01
	0xd8
}

Screen Shot 2015-11-06 at 11.13.40 p.m..png (382.5 KiB) Viewed 8876 times

That extra key is the thing I miss when I'm on my real HHKB. And my macros. Xwhatsit's controller inside my Kishsaver is much more powerful than the HHKB's.

[romevi]

Sweet. I'd like to use the split right Shift on my F77. I don't mind having to use the stepped Caps Lock.

Is this something that's configurable with all Ellipse Model Fs, or do we have to request them special?

[wcass]

Options for both barrel placements ...

• top right : 2x (backspace) or 1x + 1x
  Enter : ANSI or ISO
  Left shift : 2.25x ANSI or 1.25x + 1x ISO

Options for "standard" barrel placement only ...

• Right shift : 2.75x standard or 1x + 1.75x stepped

Option for "HHKB style" barrel placement only ...

• Right shift : 1.75x stepped + 1x ONLY

[romevi]

Options for both barrel placements ...

• top right : 2x (backspace) or 1x + 1x
  Enter : ANSI or ISO
  Left shift : 2.25x ANSI or 1.25x + 1x ISO

Options for "standard" barrel placement only ...

• Right shift : 2.75x standard or 1x + 1.75x stepped

Option for "HHKB style" barrel placement only ...

• Right shift : 1.75x stepped + 1x ONLY

Ah, gotcha. I submitted my IC back in June so I can't remember.

[Ellipse]

Andrew-yes I expect to sell some replacement 4704 foam as well.

Elrick I like the design of that car among that of many older cars. I have seen a reproduction in person and I remember it was really nice. Some of my favorite car designs are the 1953 Jaguar XK, the Aston Martin DB-2 (1953) and DB-5, 1954 Aston Martin Bertone Spyder, 1957-61 Chevy Convertibles, 1958 Austin Healy, 1959 Jaguar XK150, 1959 Triumph TR3A, 1960 Mercedes Benz 300SL, and the 1967 Jaguar XKE Roadster.

Yep Hypersphere that is correct regarding the split right shift keyboards. They require separate PCB and top inner assembly designs, which have all been completed. A very generous forum member volunteered his time to design the PCBs and spent extra time making an adjusted design for the split shift F77 and F62 crowd.

Someone has offered a 3D printed non-stepped short caps lock key, which is probably the best we can do if you don't want a stepped caps lock style key for the short right shift - I am not sure if this will work but each key is about $6. http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWF ... d=40367439

Muirium I expect to take photos of the different suggested layouts once the prototypes arrive.

romevi you'd need to pick split right shift as an option, as it is a different PCB and top inner assembly. To switch back to the non-split shift in the future you'd need to at least buy the "regular" PCB and top inner assembly pieces, or preferably another F77/F62 keyboard

wcass is correct that the factory can configure flipper/spring placements for ISO/ANSI enter keys, short left/right shifts, and short/long backspace keys. You can even special request other vertical keys for the extra 15 key area of the F77s, such as a + or Enter key if you so choose, as the barrels support such a configuration.

I expect to make a detailed PayPal order form allowing multiple choice selections for these options, plus a section for inputting notes.

Any advice for the best free website designer? Some of the marketing advice I received mentioned I should make a web site.

[Ellipse]

The final major piece of the project is currently in production. The factory sent me some photos of the aluminum case prototypes in the CNC milling machine. In the second photo you can sort of recognize the keyboard's distinctive "pencil holder" bar. CNC milled prototypes are very expensive - they essentially take a block of solid aluminum and go inch by inch with drills and other tools to remove a bit of aluminum at a time.

keyboard under processing.jpg (75.07 KiB) Viewed 8841 times

keyboard.jpg (81.57 KiB) Viewed 8841 times

[fohat]

Some of my favorite car designs are the 1953 Jaguar XK, the Aston Martin DB-2 (1953) and DB-5, 1954 Aston Martin Bertone Spyder, 1957-61 Chevy Convertibles, 1958 Austin Healy, 1959 Jaguar XK150, 1959 Triumph TR3A, 1960 Mercedes Benz 300SL, and the 1967 Jaguar XKE Roadster.

Go back a few years and include the 1937 Cord.

[Samir]

Love that there's some car enthusiasts here!

Any advice for the best free website designer? Some of the marketing advice I received mentioned I should make a web site.

There's lots out there. But I would think about what you want the site to do first. Asking for a best website is like asking for the best keyboard.