Paris

[photekq]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

The scale of this attack is nothing short of tragic. I hope that nobody here is near the areas affected, and I hope that nobody here has any family or friends that have been injured or were present to see such horrific events.

The families and friends of those killed are in my thoughts, as is the future of Europe.

[matt3o]

It's terrifying that this happened so close to us. it looks like nothing changed since 9/11

[Muirium]

Welcome to Syria.

[davkol]

Relevant...

Now listen you, people of NATO. You’re bombing a wall which stood in the way of African migration to Europe, and in the way of Al-Qaeda terrorists. This wall was Libya. You‘re breaking it. You’re idiots, and you will burn in Hell for thousands of migrants from Africa and for supporting Al-Qaeda. It will be so. I never lie. And I do not lie now.

[Ray]

This is tragic.
Let's hope this war does't move over to europe more than this.
But let's be fair. The western world chose to mess with the situation in Syria (I am not saying it is a wrong decision. It is too big and next door to just observe), we shouldn't be surprised it will influence our lives. This isn't terrorism that struck us out of nowhere, it might be ripples of war reaching europe.
This is tragic, a whole capital city in fear. Hundreds are dead and will be missed by family and friends.

[Muirium]

Exactly. Today is a horrific day for Paris, but Syrians have to suffer this kind of shit all the time. Some of it from our attacks, but lots more from the fellows who did this.

The biggest consequence — one I'm sure the attackers relished — may be if Europeans take another turn to the right, and ramp up our vicious discrimination against Syrian and other refugees. Islamic State doesn't lose them when they leave its territory, if we westerners are willing to turn our countries into a prison to serve the same cause.

[DanielT]

It's a tragedy what's going on, and I fear this will follow also in other EU countries. I live now in Munich and what I see every day scares me to be honest, last time I was here was 7 years ago, I loved the city now I am here again and it scares me, it's not the same as 7 years ago. I seriously thinking of going back to Romania. I'm sorry to say but at this moment for me my old and corrupt country is way better than this. As an outsider I see some things that are totaly wrong and at some point things will escalate and for sure I don't want to be here when the bomb will go up.

[Muirium]

I think for now they're picking off the nations with heavy military involvement in Syria, "their turf". Germany's safer than France or (inevitably) Britain in that regard. But as a nation with so much immigration, there is huge potential beneath the surface for things to get really ugly there if German born Jihadis start to act.

I have the luxury of being right out at the furthest edge of Europe to all that's going on. But as a nation still fused to London, we'll be a target too, the moment Prime Minster Osborne or (perhaps even worse) Boris takes charge and feels the need for a spot of military viagra. And almost uniquely in Europe, we are home to some 200 hydrogen bombs, ripe for the taking someday…

[ramnes]

I live in the district where everything happened. That's terrible. Dead people one street from where I am right now, dead people in my favorite concert place, etc.

[Muirium]

You, and especially their loved ones, have all our sympathy. It's an atrocity. Each one of the coordinated massacres.

Yet we live in a world where this is becoming normal. Especially in the Middle East. This won't be the last.

[DanielT]

Yes, that's what I'm afraid too, it won't be the last time. This is only the start. In Germany all those refugees will come out from the centers in a few months and it will be very interesting what will happen

[mr_a500]

[Muirium]

Speaking of YouTube, when can we expect the conspiracy theorists you're into to start pissing all over this tragedy, too?

[mr_a500]

What the fuck?

[Muirium]

Apologies. I didn't use the politically correct name for those insidious fuckheads. I'm sorry.

(Or I may have mistaken you for someone else in that conspiracy theory thread that occasionally does the rounds here in the off topic section. In which case I'm genuine! That climate change denier stuff just makes me annoyed we didn't include an ability to kick people in the face over the Internet protocol.)

[matt3o]

violence brings violence that brings more violence. people vote more extremist parties. personal privacy is killed in name of national security. It's a spiral I don't see the end since 10 years now.

[Muirium]

Yup. That's the inescapable truth. Attacks like this make us angry, our judgement blurred by impotent violence, like I just confessed! And that's how they beat us.

We need the patience of Gandhi to deal with these guys. To starve their cause of the hatred that drives it.

Although I fear we Europeans are quite peripheral in this. The furnace at the heart of it lies in the Holy Land. Where we have no influence at all.

[seebart]

Yup. That's the inescapable truth. Attacks like this make us angry, our judgement blurred by impotent violence, like I just confessed!

I'm glad you did, because that was out of line and whack and you know it. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theorys, it's like matt3o rightly says, a spiral of violence. It's not going away. I can't even watch the news anymore. And those fucking overpaid soccer players, they were scared while random people get killed. Fuck. ramnes my friend, my thoughts are with you and your people!

[Muirium]

Conspiracy theories have everything to do with this, alas. These Jihadis are recruited by Islamist conspiracy theology. All of them are passionate Holocaust deniers. They pick on Jews (remember where the gunners went after Charlie Hebdo) because their faith is centred around the idea of a satanic conspiracy against true Muslims, coordinated by Westerners like us, and our sacred masters: the Jews. What laughable, perfect horseshit! Yet these boys empty magazines into people's heads and blow themselves up for Allah, swallowing the whole narcissistic turd. Heaven awaits! Jesus Fucking Christ…

Whoever would have thought that a US defence project to guard against a Soviet first strike win in nuclear war would have been the perfect tool for conspiracy nuts everywhere? They'd never find each other without it. Or sign up kids from all over Europe to join their brainwashing camps without the internet. Science fiction at its finest.

As angry as I obviously am about all this, I do think there's something we need to do about it. Many things. But at the core of them lies the forgotten peace process yet another conspiracy nutjob assassinated along with Yitzhak Rabin.

[seebart]

OK I get what you mean, but it's more like brainwashing based upon conspiracy theories. Even with my very limited knowledge of Islam I understand this is not the way of Islam. Extremist bullshit is what it is. Something like could happen in Germany any time now. Seems they have a stronger base in France though. The US drone programm has made all this much worse IMO. Remote random killing.

[Muirium]

Bingo. Islam is not about murder. Nor is Judaism or Christianity. These guys, however, are heavily invested in making us hate all Muslims the way we hate these attacks. That is how they will win. When life for all Muslims in Europe is unbearable.

You can just hear the xenophobic politicians all over Europe licking their slavering chops at the delicious meal of hate to come. Served up by happy terrorists, on a bloody silver plate.

[SL89]

Welcome to 2001 in the US. Don't let terrible shit like the Patriot Act and all the bad baggage happen.

[7bit]

Yes, that's what I'm afraid too, it won't be the last time. This is only the start. In Germany all those refugees will come out from the centers in a few months and it will be very interesting what will happen

Those refugees are on the run from the assholes who do terror attacks.

[scottc]

Yeah, I have to agree with 7bit. The refugees are fleeing from the same worthless pricks who perpetrate acts of terror like this.

[Muirium]

As a migrant himself, I think Daniel was talking about the nasty, paranoid, xenophobic atmosphere those refugees will have to face. Attacks like this are designed to stoke up hatred. Like I said earlier: Islamic State gets a second shot at punishing these poor people if they can make us all refugee hating racists. Then there is no escape.

See how well the Jihadis do their job? Even liberal Europeans like us can't seem to help confusing race for ideology.

[scottc]

Of course! I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Bowing to simple-minded racism at a time like this is exactly their end-goal. Fuck them.

[seebart]

All of you are right. We have hundreds of thousands of refugees coming to Europe now, no one knows exactly how many. Many of them have been told fairy tales of a "land of milk and honey" Germany where they can live the "good life". They will soon see this is not the case. Then what? This is a very very difficult situation and Frau Merkel has and is failing BIG TIME. This will not be solved soon. But this terrorism in Paris is a programm of fear like Francois Hollande rightly said. We have had a few foiled bombing attempts here in Germany but nothing like this. Spain and the UK have had their share in 2004 and 2005.

[SL89]

Are Italy and Germany (hopefully) untouched by this, UK had the buses, Spain had the train, and no France has had this.

[zslane]

What burns me is that France didn't ask for this. All nations practicing the principles of western democracy and religious tolerance have targets on their backs, sure, but that's not "asking for terrorism" any more than dressing sexy is asking to get raped. It's not like here in the US where it's a safe bet that half of the radicalized terrorist activity against us is driven by their ideology of hate and the other half is driven by our own exploitation of the chaos in the Middle East, the same exploitation that helps fuel the comfy life of Judeo-Christian, white priviledge that I and others like me enjoy.

It's easy for me to be flippant and say that my silly love for plastic keycaps, NASCAR, and the perfect cappuccino are the reasons why they hate us. But it's sort of true. They've been fighting their ideological war against humanity for hundreds of years, but they were never much interested in going far from their own borders until relatively recently. The sort of socio-economic meddling we do over there has stirred the hornet's nest to such a fever pitch that they are now going to the trouble to travel thousands of miles to deliver their message of hate (and revenge, I suppose) right to our doorsteps. This isn't the Crusades; they aren't in it for the money this time.

Every civilized nation feels some degree of duty to help mitigate the suffering of innocents in places like the Middle East, and I would never fault any nation that made an honest effort to do so. But sometimes a nation gets arrogant or greedy, like the US too often does, and takes advantage of the situation. When that explodes in our faces, quite literally, we only have ourselves to blame. But when I look back on the unjustified attacks on Paris over the last few years, I can't help but weep for the families who have been devastated and the violence done to the soul of civilization itself.

[SL89]

>What burns me is that France didn't ask for this.

No nations asks for atrocities to be committed in the name of any ideology, creed or religion. Not even America. Don't justify it for them or give them any degree of legitimacy.