Granite Round 4 design update

[Muirium]

What's the expected shipping schedule on these? I've got relatives over here again in March. But I imagine that's much too soon…

[Parjánya]

I do need a proxy also :'(.

[photekq]

Off topic question matt3o..

With all these runs of granite do you ever plan to run Retro SA again? I really regret not joining that GB.

[matt3o]

Off topic question matt3o..

With all these runs of granite do you ever plan to run Retro SA again? I really regret not joining that GB.

no. SA Retro was one time thing (same as all other designs). Granite is the exception.

[SL89]

Skull Squad SA is next

[Rainman]

Hopefully this set is going to be purchasable from SP as a regular set and although I love it and I'd be very happy to make a purchase I have other priorities that require my wallet spendings.
Oh well, C'est la vie

[photekq]

no. SA Retro was one time thing (same as all other designs). Granite is the exception.

You've said that this run of granite will be the last. Will you be giving SP permission to sell sets in their store after this run, or will this truly be the last hurrah?

[SL89]

Y'all are getting your hopes up in the worst way, if this is the last round, believe it. I highly doubt SP will make them without his permission (idek if they can) and whats more there are granite-clones all the time.

[matt3o]

no. SA Retro was one time thing (same as all other designs). Granite is the exception.

You've said that this run of granite will be the last. Will you be giving SP permission to sell sets in their store after this run, or will this truly be the last hurrah?

SP actually never asked. MD would probably want to keep running Granite forever. I believe we had way too much granite and it's time to move on.

We have a few options here: 1) release the legends to the world and let anyone run Granite; 2) let SP run granite on TMK continuously; 3) stop it.

[photekq]

SP actually never asked. MD would probably want to keep running Granite forever. I believe we had way too much granite and it's time to move on.

We have a few options here: 1) release the legends to the world and let anyone run Granite; 2) let SP run granite on TMK continuously; 3) stop it.

If it were me I'd go with 3).. Keep it limited, keep it timeless, keep it a classic. If it is continuously sold I think it may lose some of its magic.

[zslane]

I'd go with 1 or 2.

There is no such thing as "too much Granite". That's like saying there is too much excellent food in the world, and chefs everywhere should stop making their best dishes--and destory the recipes--after some arbitrarily small number of foodies have had a taste. I can think of many words to describe this attitude, but none of it is fit for civilized discourse.

[Muirium]

This comes up quite often. Some people value scarcity alongside inherent quality. Using your food metaphor, some would stop going to a famous restaurant if it opened up a chain. Indeed, to sell anything at all to a hipster you must pretend it's one of a kind, no matter how mundane. We're not quite that bad in keyboards, but many of us do prize scarcity with an extra mystique all its own.

I'm not one of them. But I get where they're coming from. Especially Matteo, who is invested in his work, before during and after.

[zslane]

I'm not one of them. But I get where they're coming from. Especially Matteo, who is invested in his work, before during and after.

I know where they're coming from too, and it isn't from a place I have much regard for. Matteo certainly invested a lot of effort into Granite, and I applaud his skill, but the "I worked hard on this, so I don't want just anyone to enjoy the fruits of my labor" sentiment just doesn't compute for me. Nor do I think it is defensible.

[matt3o]

the rationale is to give something special to whom already bought it. Also, I believe it's time to move on.

[SL89]

It's your baby matt3o, but it sounds like you lean towards option 3) and for what its worth i'd have to agree.

To zslane or anyone who wants indefinite granite, make your own, then you get to make that decision. There are already a few granite clones out there but none of them are up to snuff, if and when you do this then you get to call the shots. Who cares if a few people got them, or everyone got them. To go back to the chef metaphor, you wouldnt chain a chef to his kitchen just because people demanded it, would you? Ultimately its up to the chef to cook for a few friends or feed the world.

[matt3o]

is there a dealer that could stock granite indefinitely? As of now I haven't found one.

[SL89]

I'd imagine PMK could.

[matt3o]

I'd imagine PMK could.

so far it didn't work.

[SL89]

mechanicalkeyboards.com or one of the other more stable vendors?

did PMK say why they couldn't?

[matt3o]

did PMK say why they couldn't?

I don't think PMK is very much interested. I can try to talk to Melissa again, but it seems they prefer these MD's outburst.

[XMIT]

I bought some of the Granite-clones from PMK between runs of Granite. I got them here:
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-stock-sub ... ycap-sets/

I think letting SP run these through their PMK store has the best of both worlds:
- The Granite group buys are limited and retain collector value;
- PMK stocks quality DSA profile caps in PBT with dye-sub legends for those who just want *something* and don't care about having a collectible.

Granite and friends are a logistical winner for SP: a popular key set that needs a limited set of molds (since there is only one row profile).

[matt3o]

apparently they are happy with their lousy clones

[codemonkeymike]

If it were me I would wait a long while for another group buy. It actually kinda sucks to buy off of PMK because they only sell the most popular kits, which is great for them but bad for people who use the Plank/Atomic or Ergodox so on so forth. Also in the future there may be other community keyboard projects with their own key cap configuration which could be good Granite targets, again well into the future.

[XMIT]

Just buy some blank caps and wait for someone to get their hands on some dye sublimation tools.

[SL89]

So XMIT, you are saying IF PMK sold the Granite, they'd just sell the Vanilla stuff for like ANSI and ISO or whatever and all the rare kits and special legends would be what separates the 'general production' from the collectors stuff right?

[XMIT]

I'm saying PMK will continue selling what they have now: dye sublimated PBT caps in the DSA profile, in different colors, that are not Granite at all but use whatever legends they have. Check out my link earlier to see what exactly they sell today:

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-stock-sub ... ycap-sets/

They should just keep selling those regardless of Granite.

[zslane]

Ultimately its up to the chef to cook for a few friends or feed the world.

Of course, but in this case the chef doesn't have to actually do anything except allow a restaurant to use his recipe(s) to make the dishes for anyone who wants them. If said chef wants to keep coming up with new recipes because he is bored with the old ones, more power to him. Obviously keycap designers and chefs are free to make their goods available or not. It is the motivation behind limiting them to a select few (the collectors) that I find questionable.

Oobly came up with what I consider a reasonable compromise: make basic kits available on an ongoing basis, but make the novelty kits "limited edition" in scope. That way a set like Granite can actually attain its deserved "timeless and classic" status (which I argue can't happen with something that remains in very limited availability) while also pandering to the vanity/collector market.

[SL89]

Making it 'classic' doesnt mean he has to give up the secret sauce and let anyone keep making them. To say that granite has been made for collectors only is kind of myopic, Granite is one of if not the single most popular sets out there. There havent been 4 batches to keep them in the hands of the elite. If anything matt3o has broadened out and crossed all three enclaves and then some.

It just seems like people are entitled to yell MOAR every time he does a new batch or something. I am one of those people (jokingly) when I harangue him about Skull Squad SA every time he talks about what is next even tho i know it will likely never happen.

Oobly's solution might work, but demanding more granite or insinuating that matt3o's motivation is somehow less pure or is intentionally keeping things out of peoples hands is just bad form.

[Muirium]

So is making a straw man argument, to be fair. Zslane didn't go nearly as far as all that. My reading is he's puzzled by the desire to turn off a tap when clearly Granite's design work is all done. Reruns, or perpetual stock, don't require any effort on Matteo's part. But they do satisfy the very real demand of new people entering the community and seeking these fantastic caps.

I can see both sides of this. It's a philosophical inquiry: is scarcity its own reward?

[SL89]

. But they do satisfy the very real demand of new people entering the community and seeking these fantastic caps.

I guess im arguing a semantic issue then, the word demand itself. It just screams of entitlement. Like matt3o is somehow beholden to put in extra effort to get them availible perpetually. I guess you are right and zslane didnt go that far. And if i stepped on his toes then I apologize to him.

Granite is long overdue to be put out to pasture, who knows what could be coming around the corner anyway.