New year resolutions

[matt3o]

Some of you might already know that starting Jan 13th I took over to 002's role as [deep_voice]Forum Master[/deep_voice].

I'm really glad that 002 gave his availability in staying around, so he will still hold his admin rights. Also we won't be able to get rid of Muirium who will hopefully keep watching over the fort for a long time. 7bit is also between the admins, nobody knows what goes in his mind and nobody questions. Of course webwit watches over with a symbolics under his arm. So like it or not, this is your dream team, guys.

What next?

I don't want to change something that already works but there are a few things I'd like to finally put a closure to.

Forum software
Do we need to upgrade/change the forum software? If so, is webwit willing to work on that? I understand that he is busy so if he says he can't work on that, just forget about it and move on. Would the community benefit from a different or upgraded software?

HTTPS
Sooner or later we have to do that. At least the login/sign-in forms should be protected methinks. If we can move everything to https without hassle, I'd say let's do it.

---

These are the two pressing things that come out every now and then and I'd like to know if we should concentrate on getting them done now or wait so I can concentrate on more interesting stuff

My opinion is that they both have to be done at some point. They are not terribly urgent, maybe the forum upgrade may wait for another year honestly but I'd like to know your opinion.

[webwit]

Forum software: Personally I think we should switch at some point, as the current branch of phpBB we're on is EOL and nothing much will happen there. Modern stuff such as responsive design or better upload mechanisms are lost on us now. Also, no sane person would want to develop with this software, so if we get something better, we can put it in github and get more contributions. However, there is no hurry, as things work now, so we can take it easy and don't switch to something half-assed. I think the first step is to identify some good frameworks and install them on our server to play with. My biggest fear is that if we change, some things will work and look different, and throughout Internet history part of our users will hate the change. It would be good if someone can take "Software" of my hands, and create a team of some sorts. This is now done by the Chairman but it's better if this is not combined, not enough time to dedicate to it and if someone else does it, it opens the Chairman position to non-technical people as well.

Https: I'm on it, testing things on my own server. Deskthority this week or next!

[Muirium]

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. So I think I'm forced out of the Secretary rôle in a year or two whether I like it or not. Which is dumb in my view, and I'd like to change it. Term limits are what gave us this guy when the previous office holder was still more popular. The future of the world isn't exactly at stake, here, but I still oppose forced retirement on principle. Just make us all face elections!

Webwit: what would I need to do to change that rule? A simple majority vote among the club members or is it some bollocks about a supermajority because it's constitutional or something?

I don't currently have plans to stay on or retire, incidentally. It's the mechanism I'm talking about. I know for sure someone here who could make a better secretary than me. Let's see if you can guess who he is? He'll be the one barking back at you not to trivialise such vital matters!

[webwit]

Only the chairman and clubmaster are electable positions. So if there would be a new chairman at some point and you're still secretary, nothing would happen unless the new chairman hates you and replaces you.

[Muirium]

Oh right. I assumed we set up elections for everything after establishing the club.

Right on top of things as always!

[andrewjoy]

I am quite happy with the form software at the moment but i would not be against a change , something nice and lightweight that works well in all browsers graphical or no.

HTTPS , good idea almost essential.

Mµ is doing a good job as Secretary , sure he could do with a shorter skirt and nicer tits but the work is good.

[Muirium]

Future candidates gathering for my position…

Spoiler:

[seebart]

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. So I think I'm forced out of the Secretary rôle in a year or two whether I like it or not. Which is dumb in my view, and I'd like to change it. Term limits are what gave us this guy when the previous office holder was still more popular. The future of the world isn't exactly at stake, here, but I still oppose forced retirement on principle. Just make us all face elections!

Off topic; we have "endless" terms with endless possible reelections in German politics which led to 16 years of Kohl and 10 years of Merkel so far. Not that I'm comparing DT to German politics (which DT does not deserve).

Am I correct in assuming as a club we can have a vote on any matter as long enough members agree on voting? Then we could also potentially have a vote on having term limits itself.

[Muirium]

Lefty as I am, it may surprise you to hear I think highly of Kohl and Merkel. Schröder was the shitty Chancellor of recent times. (What a Putin crony!)

The trouble with term limits is all they do is *remove* candidates from the ballot, reducing the choice and power of the voters. Think of what other insufferable politicians you would have had if Kohl and Merkel were limited to 8 years each? Who is Germany's George W, I wonder… or George H.W! Neither of those fellows would have been president without term limits. Both were way less popular than the incumbent that was blocked by the rules.

[kbdfr]

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. […]

[seebart]

Lefty as I am, it may surprise you to hear I think highly of Kohl and Merkel. Schröder was the shitty Chancellor of recent times. (What a Putin crony!)

Let's not get into that.

The trouble with term limits is all they do is *remove* candidates from the ballot, reducing the choice and power of the voters.

Right, then we could have a vote on having term limits or not.

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. […]

Hmm kbdfr that's a very "restrained" communication style for you!

[Muirium]

As Kbdfr indicates, the question is deeper than that. Apparently the Secretary is an appointed position, not a directly voted one. Though we could elevate it that way… which would then open up the question of term limits for me, too.

[seebart]

As Kbdfr indicates, the question is deeper than that. Apparently the Secretary is an appointed position, not a directly voted one. Though we could elevate it that way… which would then open up the question of term limits for me, too.

"Appointed" as in not voted? I don't like that! Smells like we need another vote...

[kbdfr]

Didn't find anything about terms being limited - hence the

[Muirium]

As Webwit said:

Only the chairman and clubmaster are electable positions. So if there would be a new chairman at some point and you're still secretary, nothing would happen unless the new chairman hates you and replaces you.

I'm generally in favour of direct election.

[seebart]

Didn't find anything about terms being limited - hence the

OK. Well eventually it would be good to know if the terms are limited or not.

I'm generally in favour of direct election.

I second that.

[bhtooefr]

Here's an idea, how about a blended variation on the idea of term limits and of no term limits?

Increase the percentage of votes required for someone to win (basically, a handicap) if they're past a certain limit. (This works better in an instant runoff system.)

[Muirium]

As a politics nerd, I do like fancy voting systems like IRV. I remember bringing up the idea at DT before (maybe for the DTAs…) and hearing our current forum software only supports first past the post.

As for an actual handicap… seems like a nice idea until it pushes the election the other way than the voters voted. You know, like the electoral college in 2000!

[webwit]

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. […]

Article 8.5.



Yes we should get that translated.

[matt3o]

As per forum software it's not that we have that much choice. In the open source realm we have

- SMF (very much loved by the fan base)
- phpbb (very much hated by basically anyone)
- punbb (minimalist but nice, I see no benefit in using it over phpbb)
- flarum (promising but very beta)
- vanilla forum (sassy and polished, I kinda like it, but the version I installed locally seems still a bit unfinished)
- nodebb (a bit overkill imho)
- discourse (overkills the overkill)
- mybb (how phpbb should have been?)

note
fluxbb and phorum are deprecated in favor of flarum.

[kbdfr]

Speaking of terms: the club rules are actually set up with term limits. […]

Article 8.5.



Yes we should get that translated.

Thanks.

Article 8.5 roughly says (Google Translate, followed by human revision):
"Board members are appointed for a period of three years, one year being the period between two consecutive annual general meetings. The Board members resign according to a schedule set by the Board. A Board member resigning pursuant to this schedule is immediately eligible for reappointment once. After this period, the relevant Board member cannot be appointed for a period of three years."

The way I see it, this "resigning schedule" concerns only the initial period, as a third of the Board is due for reelection every year. Afterwards, each Board member has a normal term of three years and can be re-elected once, making it six years at a maximum. Three years later, the same former Board member can run for election again.

I don't see any reason to change that.

[andrewjoy]

how about no matter how small , each country that has members on DT all vote for who they want , if you country has 1 member on DT your countries vote is worth the same as if you have 200.

Because thats a fair and democratic way to elect someone right ?

Now in Ironic brown!

[DanielT]

Hmm, sounds complicated. Each country would have to organise some "local" voting, then have a representative who will vote in the final election round.

[Muirium]

To answer Andy's question: Nope.

The trouble with all oddball electoral colleges (like you just described) is that they sometimes overrule the people and select the wrong guy. (Bush vs. Gore being the canonical example.) They either don't matter or get it wrong! Horrible things. The only good vote is a straight vote.

Also, Scotland is a country. (We even voted Yes to independence on DT!) So I would have 200 votes, which wouldn't be too fair would it?

[webwit]

You may be slightly confused because he didn't post in ironic brown.

[andrewjoy]

Your a county not a country .

[7bit]

Why is phpbb hated by basically anyone?

[matt3o]

Why is phpbb hated by basically anyone?

don't really know, in the past was famous for being bugged and filled with security holes like a swiss cheese. Should be better now I think

[webwit]

It probably has been the most secure during our lifetime, because it has been stress-tested by hackers so much. These kind of old and massively used web software might be the only type of software complying to Linus's Law, not the Linux Kernel or OpenSSL. Every wannabee script kiddie/hacker can and has dived into it in its prime, trying to hack it.

[matt3o]

just to be clear, I have nothing against phpbb and I believe we should simply update to the latest branch. The only alternative that might be interesting to check is probably vanilla.