SA Dasher & SA Dancer keycap sets (Completed)

zslane · 17 Jan 2016, 19:18

For TKL fans:

: dasher_keyboard_ansi_tkl_01.jpg (247.35 KiB) Viewed 9021 times

: dasher_keyboard_ansi_tkl_02.jpg (254.31 KiB) Viewed 9021 times

: dasher_keyboard_ansi_tkl_03.jpg (169.1 KiB) Viewed 8995 times

zslane · 18 Jan 2016, 01:08

And here is Dasher in context (my work space at work):

: dasher_keyboard_ansi_atwork_03.jpg (394.92 KiB) Viewed 8800 times

zslane · 18 Jan 2016, 20:34

So I think I have enough renders now to wind up the interest check crank outside of DT. But I need a little help.

Over on /r/mech, I'll need someone to wave the flag for this set since I don't have a reddit account and have no interest in creating one.

Over on GeekHack, I have my own account, but there I need some advice on how to proceed. I could just start an IC thread in the Marketplace forum section, but after having spent several months jousting with the GH community, I don't think my original plan of directing comments to here will work. GH members are a touchy bunch, and they aren't going to like being told to go to another forum just to be heard. But maybe it's okay to carry on an IC discussion there. My concern was that it would duplicate an on-going discussion, of the same exact issues, here, which I wanted to avoid. But it looks like discussion has settled down here and that the DT community is, by and large, pretty content with the set as it currently defined.

It does get potentially tricky, though, if substantial changes are proposed/requested over on GH, since many DT members don't have accounts there and I will have to figure out how to keep DT folks aware of and involved with such things.

There is still the question of GB vehicle. I am inclined to go with either MassDrop or PMK. Which one would be the most open to taking on both Dasher and Dancer? Do I need to get cost estimates from SP myself before hand? Or will MassDrop/PMK take care of all that?

Any last thoughts before we take SA Dasher & Dancer on the campaign trail?

sero · 18 Jan 2016, 22:03

I can wave the flag on r/mk. My name is Den441 there. Just let me know whenever you need the post to be made

mashby · 18 Jan 2016, 23:37

zslane wrote: ↑Over on GeekHack, I have my own account, but there I need some advice on how to proceed. I could just start an IC thread in the Marketplace forum section, but after having spent several months jousting with the GH community, I don't think my original plan of directing comments to here will work. GH members are a touchy bunch, and they aren't going to like being told to go to another forum just to be heard. But maybe it's okay to carry on an IC discussion there. My concern was that it would duplicate an on-going discussion, of the same exact issues, here, which I wanted to avoid. But it looks like discussion has settled down here and that the DT community is, by and large, pretty content with the set as it currently defined.

Each community prefers to communicate in the forum that they're most comfortable with, so directing them to post elsewhere is a non-starter. I'd recommend creating an IC thread there if you want their input on your group buy.

niomosy · 19 Jan 2016, 06:54

Those latest renders are awesome. My color board, too, so it's a great visual to get an idea of how they'll look.

As for the run, thesiscampre should have some info on contact with MassDrop as there were some problems with hippo trying to get in contact with them for Dusk.

Regarding assistance, I'm on Reddit and GH so I can help out if you need. Each community is a bit different from the other but I think 7bit has shown that you can run successful groupbuys with the main focus on a single forum. To be truthfully honest, with the way Reddit's system works, you'd really only end up spending a day or two answering questions before the thread falls off simply due to new topics coming in. You'd end up just directing everyone to one forum or another.

And yeah, GH is a unique bunch. Though I admit I might be bringing it out a bit with my questions on a few things.

7bit · 19 Jan 2016, 09:58

Your renders look like the keys are already produced.

I recommend you run the group buy yourself or in the worst case via PMK.

It is only 2 colors and not so many extras, so in fact plain sailing.

sero · 19 Jan 2016, 19:12

niomosy is correct. If you let me wave the flag on r/mk, I would like to post 2-3 IC threads there over the time that this buy is in IC mode. This is because most threads die within 3 days there. I would like to use a few different renders for each post to keep it fresh and interesting. You have so many great renders anyway. I would also point them to this thread. r/mk is not like GH when it comes to this sort of thing.

On GH, you'll need your own IC thread there. You will probably need to tell them this started on DT, and as result may have a shortened IC period. Otherwise, they may complain it was not in IC long enough when you put it into GB mode there.

They will likely ask you to use MD for fulfillment. They are very distrusting of new GB runners over there right now because of previous scammers. Plus, PMK has changed up their systems and procedures lately, so not many know how that works anymore. Probably best to contact PMK/SP about it directly. I agree with 7bit though. If you can run it yourself, you should. I just do not want the communities to get too dependent on MD for fulfillment. Then they will have all the control over what gets made and what doesn't. The situation with the Dusk set concerned me. If there is no other way though, I'm sure MD would love to host this set because of the retro aspect of it and the success of the TA replica set there.

zslane · 19 Jan 2016, 19:24

I will start an IC thread over on GH then. We'll see what kind of reaction it gets.

I like MassDrop for the large audience it reaches, and the fact that they handle everything.

I like PMK because they will, in theory, re-run the set any time enough votes roll in, forever.

I dislike running the group buy myself because I'm sane.

niomosy · 19 Jan 2016, 20:16

zslane wrote: ↑I will start an IC thread over on GH then. We'll see what kind of reaction it gets.

I like MassDrop for the large audience it reaches, and the fact that they handle everything.

I like PMK because they will, in theory, re-run the set any time enough votes roll in, forever.

I dislike running the group buy myself because I'm sane.

I think your thoughts on each method sum things up nicely. One thing to point out. If you run through MD, you'll still have some interaction with SP for pricing and such. Within that, you may likely be able to still grant re-run capabilities to SP even with the initial run being done via MD. That would allow you the benefits of MD while still allowing SP to directly handle reruns.

I'll be happy to jump in on any IC thread and keep the thread bumped and rolling.

zslane · 21 Jan 2016, 19:35

I'm thinking that it would be ideal for Dasher to have the same arrangement as Jukebox did, where the initial group buy happens on MassDrop, and then it goes on PMK thereafter.

Thoughts?

SL89 · 21 Jan 2016, 20:42

I think both of them drive up costs needlessly, but if you don't wanna run it thats your prerogative. If it ends up on both just make sure the price stays he same across them.

zslane · 21 Jan 2016, 22:20

I'm pretty sure I have no control over prices.

Aside from the fact that I don't want to run a group buy myself, any attempt to do so would fatally jeopardize any interest check I put up over at GH since I am a "first timer" with all this. Confidence and faith are probably at an all-time low over there.

Muirium · 21 Jan 2016, 22:44

Have you spoken to Melissa about an MOQ? I still think a small run is the way to go. Collecting money up front and ordering directly from SP as one single product when all the funds are in.

Yes, yes, I know you don't want to do it. But if you ever want to make these caps for real, you're going to have to!

zslane · 21 Jan 2016, 23:00

It's not just me. Nobody else wants to run the group buy either. That means putting it in the hands of organizations that do it as their business.

Anyone who wants to save it from the corporate clutches of MassDrop or PMK is free to do so. I willingly give permission to take the reins and run with it. Anyone who truly believes that running it manually is the way to go is encouraged to do so. But, of course, what they really mean is that they believe running it manually is the way to go as long as they don't have to do it themselves.

Muirium · 21 Jan 2016, 23:03

Yup.

Also, running an SP GB outside the US is horribly wrong minded. You guys have crazy expensive foreign shipping (I have discovered this while over here!) and Europe will charge nasty taxes the moment the caps touch soil, even if they're going back out again. And don't forget forex. SP wants paid in dollars. Even USD to USD payments cost me 1% commission in PayPal, because I'm foreign, despite the fact I'm bloody well in America right now. Urgh.

Only 7bit is foolish enough to do this at scale.

niomosy · 22 Jan 2016, 01:22

Honestly, I can see zslane's side on not wanting to personally run the buy. It's a lot to deal with and not something I'd want to wish on anyone; just look at all the "fun" BunnyLake has taken on with multiple buys. Putting it in the hands of someone like MD to deal with seems fine. They're a corporate entity that can hold accountability for everything, handle the money, and get everything sorted and shipped out.

zslane · 22 Jan 2016, 02:15

As for pricing, I was planning to send Melissa the complete kit image(s) and ask for quotes for 25, 50, and 100 units of each kit. That would at least give us ballpark figures to use in eliciting interest.

7bit · 22 Jan 2016, 10:15

Muirium wrote: ↑Yup.

Also, running an SP GB outside the US is horribly wrong minded. You guys have crazy expensive foreign shipping (I have discovered this while over here!) and Europe will charge nasty taxes the moment the caps touch soil, even if they're going back out again. And don't forget forex. SP wants paid in dollars. Even USD to USD payments cost me 1% commission in PayPal, because I'm foreign, despite the fact I'm bloody well in America right now. Urgh.

Only 7bit is foolish enough to do this at scale.

The taxes are the only issue. Shipping to me is only a bit more expansive. Shipping from me is cheaper, especially to non-CONUS. Also, EU-people usually have to pay more taxes/fees if packages are shipped directly from the outer-world. The whole thing is far less crazy as it seems.

However, since I have different plans for the future, I will not step in.

Elrick · 22 Jan 2016, 11:57

zslane wrote: ↑I will start an IC thread over on GH then. We'll see what kind of reaction it gets.

I like MassDrop for the large audience it reaches, and the fact that they handle everything.

I like PMK because they will, in theory, re-run the set any time enough votes roll in, forever.

I dislike running the group buy myself because I'm sane.

Because no one is going to help you in realizing your dream here, looks like your only other option is MassDrop.

They'll organize the run, collect all the money and get it made. They've got plenty of experience and this won't be their first time in running a Group Buy on Caps, especially with SP.

You can relax and put your feet up when this finally runs.

zslane · 22 Jan 2016, 19:28

Just to be clear, SA Dasher isn't my "dream" keycap set. That honor goes to 7bit's Space Cadet set (and waiting for it has been agonizing). I just think the Dasher colorway is very pretty, that's all. I ran the idea up the flagpole here to see if others liked it too. Sure, I'd like to have a set, but if Dasher doesn't happen, there will be folks far more disappointed than I.

zslane · 24 Jan 2016, 02:29

For all you HHKB layout fans:

: It's all about the blue; dasher_keyboard_ansi_hhkb_01.jpg (165.09 KiB) Viewed 8702 times

Of course, I don't know where you'd get a 6u spacebar, but there are no shortage of them in my digital inventory.

Muirium · 24 Jan 2016, 02:47

It's always cruel how easily some are fooled by the idea of putting Round 5 on their non-MX keyboards. I've had several people ask me about my white SA set up for sale, with the specific intention of putting it on their HHKB. Never another word to be heard from them when, politely, I tell them this don't work on that.

The NovaTouch is the only game in town.

zslane · 24 Jan 2016, 03:10

Well, apparently there are folks out there who make custom boards with the HHKB layout and MX switches. Seems to me they'd have to change the bottom row a bit to accomodate a 6.25u spacebar, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb Filco/Pok3r guy.

Muirium · 24 Jan 2016, 03:23

Indeed! You'd make a good dumb NovaTouch guy too, if you'd let yourself.

HHKB-style customs nearly always use 6.25 unit spacebars. And people typically fill in the whole 60% rectangle, Poker-style, with the usual mods the HHKB drops. In other words, this:

zslane · 24 Jan 2016, 08:00

Ah, okay. Good to know.

zslane · 24 Jan 2016, 20:08

Pok3r style:

: Pok3r-ish style case; dasher_keyboard_ansi_pok3r_01.jpg (144.24 KiB) Viewed 8616 times

Khers · 24 Jan 2016, 20:11

Please stop publishing these renders! They look too good! If you continue I'll end up with even more caps I don't need...

Amazingly good looking.

cbalcom03 · 25 Jan 2016, 03:11

Please let me know if this set goes to a group buy or if you run them yourself. I am typing on my brand new poker 3 that just came today and desperately want to get a custom keycap set to finish out my new obsession. I knew there was interest in mechanical keyboards but not to the extent I have seen here and I have been sucked in very quickly.

zslane · 25 Jan 2016, 05:53

I sent an e-mail today to Melissa requesting a price quote for what we have so far, at three quantity tiers: 25, 50, and 100. If I can get that information, I can go to GeekHack and reddit and start waving the flag in those places. Stay tuned!