F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

t!ng · 29 Jan 2016, 01:59

That is why i am suggesting to split the Invoice in two. Lets say 30+370 Dollars and you Show the Customs only the 30$ Payment.

Troif · 29 Jan 2016, 02:18

t!ng wrote: ↑That is why i am suggesting to split the Invoice in two. Lets say 30+370 Dollars and you Show the Customs only the 30$ Payment.

that is a good idea... may be not 30 euros but 70 euros to be more credible but it is a gooooood idea!

webwit · 29 Jan 2016, 02:22

It's a lot of money for a keyboard, but the other perspective is that it's also a fucking miracle of modern Chinese manufacturing to get these so cheap for such a relatively small run, especially if you consider that along the line people want to earn a profit margin for their efforts. These are the F62 and F77 remade, from the ground up. Companies like Unicomp or SP can hardly do anything new because they always complain about the costs of their molds, tooling, production lines, etc. I'm not gonna complain about shipping or import costs, which is outside Ellipse's influence.

Techno Trousers · 29 Jan 2016, 02:33

I emailed Fentek today to ask if they could make buckling spring caps, since they have some for sale. Sadly, the answer was no, and they are just selling old stock and getting out of the "Model M" business. I guess after this GB we need Ellipse to perform another minor miracle and get Tai Hao or Vortex to start producing BS caps and wake Unicomp up. How about some Dolch color keysets, for a start?

Redmaus · 29 Jan 2016, 02:36

I am thinking about going for it but its just so much money for a keyboard...

I have never spent this much on anything before except my car...

webwit · 29 Jan 2016, 02:58

Unicomp relies on a lot of heritage IBM/Lexmark NOS, such as those black caps. And, once, Space Savers (I got their last one). I don't think they ever made those black caps themselves. Fentek once told me they got their IBM colored and transparent keycaps from Unicomp, and then when the mechanical keyboard market started to explode, Unicomp contacted them if they could buy some back, because they were running out of some colors. FFS, they can't even make a black right shift. It would probably only work for them if they could sell 50k of them.

webwit · 29 Jan 2016, 03:12

Redmaus wrote: ↑I am thinking about going for it but its just so much money for a keyboard...

I have never spent this much on anything before except my car...

Three years from now, your car will be worth much less. Three years from now, your F62/F77 will be worth the same or more. You're not spending, you're converting assets.

Unless of course Ellipse will go to mass production after this first run.

Techno Trousers · 29 Jan 2016, 03:14

I'm pretty sure Unicomp could make whatever key sets they want, perhaps excepting the non-stepped caps lock (if they have no mold for that). Their brilliant white color is relatively new (last couple of years when they introduced their 104 key keyboards), so I can't imagine any technical reason they couldn't do all black keys. Maybe they think there's no market, but they sure are getting pestered for it a lot.

webwit · 29 Jan 2016, 03:16

Their IBM/Lexmark production lines are made for mass production, it's too expensive to set up for small runs.

sean4star · 29 Jan 2016, 03:47

Help me figure out what I need to get...

Looks like other than color and size the biggest decision is split HHKB-style right shift or not. Separate PCB, plate and foam. I may have to get both!

Other than that, are all the other layout option configurable? i.e. split backspace, split left ISO shift, ISO enter - did I leave any out?

If I want to have layout options in the future, what extras do i need to buy? Barrels, spring/flipper, stabilizers, etc. Will it be relatively easy to add the keys and reconfigure the controller? Also, if I have all the keycaps I need, except the smaller stepped right shift, how do i had that one key to my order?

Thanks Ellipse for putting this on! One hell of a job.

Redmaus · 29 Jan 2016, 03:52

webwit wrote: ↑
Three years from now, your car will be worth much less. Three years from now, your F62/F77 will be worth the same or more. You're not spending, you're converting assets. Unless of course Ellipse will go to mass production after this first run.

Are you a salesman webwit?

But as clear as your point is, I don't think I will be buying this to sell later. I think getting a cheaper F107 would be a more prudent investment.

(Speaking of which, I really need to hit up orihalcon about the one he was going to sell me)

courtesi · 29 Jan 2016, 04:55

webwit wrote: ↑It's a lot of money for a keyboard, but the other perspective is that it's also a fucking miracle of modern Chinese manufacturing to get these so cheap for such a relatively small run,

For as expensive as it is I feel like I'll get my moneys worth.

On the other hand I look at a $200 made in Japan Realforce and feel robbed.

Ellipse · 29 Jan 2016, 05:06

Red please take a look if you're interested at my F62/F77 test/teardown/comparison video (reposted below). In the last 5 minutes I compare the sound of my F77 and F62 to an F107. Other DT/GHers agreed that the sound is a lot crisper and less muddy on the newer boards, and they are not much more in cost than an old board.

If money is tight I can offer you a $15 set of original used Model M keys to save you $25 or so on keycaps for your F62/F77 (this offer is open to anyone if money is tight).

To add on webwit's statement, you can always sell one of these new keyboards later on if funds are needed elsewhere. I'm sure there will be a small amount of interest once the regular round ends for those who missed out. It seems like the demand for F107s is a lot lower than the F62/F77s.

Ellipse · 29 Jan 2016, 23:32

An update on the smaller cases - the smaller cases are happening but they will not likely be available for order for at least 2-3 weeks. Please PM me if you're interested in a smaller case and haven't told me already.

Would people prefer anodized or powdercoated for the smaller aluminum cases? Is everyone fine with the smaller extruded metal design posted earlier (and re-posted below)? You would be saving about 1 to 2 inches off the sides and about one inch in the controller area.

I also expect to make a removable USB cable option for the extruded aluminum case, either through a cable or through allowing access to the USB connector on the PCB (the former seems like the preferable solution I think?).

: 2nd alt design3.jpg (167.24 KiB) Viewed 6248 times

: extruded.jpg (143.5 KiB) Viewed 6248 times

gnarlsagan · 30 Jan 2016, 00:18

Ellipse wrote: ↑An update on the smaller cases - the smaller cases are happening but they will not likely be available for order for at least 2-3 weeks. Please PM me if you're interested in a smaller case and haven't told me already.

Would people prefer anodized or powdercoated for the smaller aluminum cases? Is everyone fine with the smaller extruded metal design posted earlier (and re-posted below)? You would be saving about 1 to 2 inches off the sides and about one inch in the controller area.

I also expect to make a removable USB cable option for the extruded aluminum case, either through a cable or through allowing access to the USB connector on the PCB (the former seems like the preferable solution I think?).

2nd alt design3.jpg

extruded.jpg

Wow. Simple and beautiful. I vote for black anodized, but I'm sure there will be varied opinions. I didn't count on having to buy another board, but I don't think it will be possible to pass up something so rare.

chalks · 30 Jan 2016, 01:08

While the smaller case may look nothing like a the original, it would be good if it had some reminders of its origin. I would prefer powdered coated preferably in industrial grey. If industrial grey isn't available then off-white/beige.

The removable usb cable is also a great idea.

Will the smaller case lie flat, with options for us to fit our own feet? I would prefer to use the cork feet to keep it flat, or perhaps fit some small feet to the front to give it a negative tilt.

Ellipse, please update my preference to a small case F77

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 01:44

ok noted gnarlsagan and chalks. So far on GH and DT anodized is preferred by a strong margin.

chalks I will not be updating the orders just yet because I do not have the product and cost figures in hand. I hope to offer it but there is a chance it may not go into production for a few months.

Yes I expect the small case to be rectangular in its dimensions and lie flat, so the case can be adjusted with screw-on or adhesive bumpers of your choice (not sure the renderings show that accurately).

RyanArr · 30 Jan 2016, 03:41

Ellipse wrote: ↑Would people prefer anodized or powdercoated for the smaller aluminum cases?

+1 for anodized finish

I also expect to make a removable USB cable option for the extruded aluminum case, either through a cable or through allowing access to the USB connector on the PCB (the former seems like the preferable solution I think?).

What do you mean "through a cable"? If this means just a short cable dangling off the case with a female connector, I'd almost prefer the non-removable cable. Or does this just mean a short internal cable that then is panel mounted to the case?

Basically, I'd prefer whichever option involves a flush USB port on the back of the keyboard case — even if this means a PCB redesign and added cost and delay.

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 04:03

Short internal cable mounted to the case is what I was thinking, or putting the PCB at the edge to allow for the surface mounted micro usb port at the edge, like on the Ergodox.

RyanArr · 30 Jan 2016, 04:31

Got it. In that case it makes little difference, just a matter of what works. I recall reading a post from the developer of Keyboardio that they went with PCB mounted jack for cost saving reasons (saving on labor mostly, I believe). I imagine you'll be the best suited to judge cost issues for the project though.

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 04:41

For those looking to convert their F62s with the standard cases to add a removable cable, something like this micro USB extension cable might work. This one has a very small bezel at the very end of the micro USB socket so it might be possible to use it with minimal adjustments to the F62 case:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261896048812

RyanArr · 30 Jan 2016, 06:18

Nice, I might grab one of those and see how small I can get it after chipping off some excess plastic. What's the diameter of the F62 cable hole?

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 06:22

The rectangular hole is 7.5 mm wide. The original design had two rectangular holes (for air flow?) on the back, plus a hole for the cable.

flabbergast · 30 Jan 2016, 09:34

I would vote for a short internal cable, for longevity reasons. This setup is much easier to repair than fixing a surface-mount USB connector (should it become dislodged), which may not be even possible if the traces would lift. However the cost of this solution is very likely quite a bit higher than simply mounting xwhatsit's PCB close to the edge.

strah · 30 Jan 2016, 14:10

Ellipse wrote: ↑The rectangular hole is 7.5 mm wide. The original design had two rectangular holes (for air flow?) on the back, plus a hole for the cable.

Could you post a photo of the exact location of the rectangular hole on the F62? Thanks.

Hypersphere · 30 Jan 2016, 17:46

@Ellipse: I am interested in a small case. Either powder-coated black or anodized black.

Layout = HHKB with split Backspace (Backslash and Backtick); split Right Shift (Right Shift and Fn); Esc on far left of top row; CapsLock = Ctrl; bottom row = Ctrl-Alt-OS-Space-OS-Alt-Ctrl.

Detachable cable: mini or micro USB or USB-C or whatever works best and is likely to be the most durable.

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 20:36

Thanks noted Hypersphere and flabbergast. Flabbergast do you have any recommendations for the cable to use? I can't find the perfect cable just yet and how it would assemble to the back of the keyboard.

Please see the project web site for a photo of the back side of the F62 showing the cutout locations:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ ... kishsaver/

Hypersphere · 30 Jan 2016, 21:38

@Ellipse: I probably missed the post when this was addressed, but regarding the small case for the F62:

1. Will the innards from a standard F62 fit into the small case, or will it be necessary to buy the whole package for a small-case F62?

2. Conversely, will the insides from a small-case F62 fit into a standard F62 case?

Just wondering what options I would have for interchanging cases in the event that I preferred one over the other after actually trying them out.

In addition, regarding feet for the cases:

3. Will the cases have threaded holes already tapped for screw-in aluminum or rubber feet?

Thanks.

Ellipse · 30 Jan 2016, 21:47

Yes all parts will be interchangeable with both cases, except for the bottom inner assembly ($20).

The holes will not be threaded as the bumpers have different thread sizes. They will be secured with nuts and star washers.

Hypersphere · 30 Jan 2016, 21:54

Ellipse wrote: ↑Yes all parts will be interchangeable with both cases, except for the bottom inner assembly ($20).

The holes will not be threaded as the bumpers have different thread sizes. They will be secured with nuts and star washers.

What does the bottom inner assembly consist of? I did not see this item on the store site.