[Interest Check] Silencing Rings for Topre RF or HHKB

[ajx]

Thanks for sharing your feedback, i ordered NT, i am torned betweend Vortex PBT OEM Profile sold here and those keycaps from Geekkeys (Cherry Profile) both are good imo but i want those ducky PBT black blank so bad
Is that advised to lube springs and domes?

[Hypersphere]

Thanks for sharing your feedback, i ordered NT, i am torned betweend Vortex PBT OEM Profile sold here and those keycaps from Geekkeys (Cherry Profile) both are good imo but i want those ducky PBT black blank so bad
Is that advised to lube springs and domes?

If you can find PBT keycaps in OEM profile, these work best on the NT. The Cherry profile PBT caps from Geekkeys are nice, but they will give you bottoming-out noise.

No -- do not lube the springs or domes in a Topre-switch board!

[ajx]

Oh thanks, by the way, i dont think so i am going to lube keyboard, it will wear out overtime (past year or half of year?)

[Hypersphere]

I do not recall seeing definitive data regarding the lifetime of a lube job on a Topre-switch keyboard. However, I have seen posts in which people mention re-doing a lube job after about 1.5 years. I am not sure what kind of lube they were using and how it was applied. I have noticed when I have opened keyboard that were apparently factory-lubed (stabilizers) with grease, the grease appeared dried and caked. I would not expect oil to dry up like the grease does, but it would also not be expected to stay put as well as grease. In addition, the oil I used (Superlube 51010) is a mixture of different types of compounds. In contrast, I think that a given Krytox oil, e.g., Krytox 103, is either a single compound or a mixture of similar compounds (perfluoropolyethers), which ought to be chemically stable. I am thinking of using Krytox 103 next time for switches and a higher-viscosity Krytox for stabilizers.

[Lpwl]

@ Hypersphere :
Few days earlier, I saw this review from livingspeedbump @ KeyChatter.com of a new "Topre Silenced" Realforce keyboard.

There is a striking similarity between your rings and the ones installed on this "brand new version" of the Realforce 104U (only available through Massdrop).

Here is a pic of those factory-fitted rings (photo credit KeyChatter):


Hypersphere rings (photo credit Muirium):


So it made me curious.
Are you the one orchestrating this ?

EDIT : Added some context in which the pics were taken - sorry for the confusion !

[Hypersphere]

@Lpwl: Thanks for posting. This is the first time I have seen anything about this. It appears that CM was listening, but they did not contact me directly. From the pics you have posted, the material that CM is using looks somewhat different from my Silencing Rings. They seem to be using something that is a single layer of foam, whereas I am using a two-ply ring with foam backed by a tough film. It would be interesting to compare the two.

EDIT: From the top photo, it looks like their ring is a single layer of foam, but from the lower photo, the tops of the rings look shiny -- I cannot tell whether or not they are using a two-ply ring or a single foam layer ring.

[Laser]

CM? It's a RealForce keyboard

The RoyalKludge capacitive keyboard (Topre clones) also sports silencing rings. I know because somebody on GeekHack was selling those at one point.

[Hypersphere]

@Laser: Right you are! Sorry about that. The board is indeed a Topre RF rather than a CM. I was blinded by the fact that the CM Novatouch is the one that needs silencing much more than the RF!

In any event, no, neither CM nor Topre contacted me about the rings. Of course, RF previously had silenced versions of the RF87U, but these became unavailable, at least in the USA. In addition, the PFU Happy Hacking Keyboard still has a Type-S model.

I would like to test the rings that Topre is using in the silenced RF to see if they are the same sort of construction and thickness as my Silencing Rings.

@Lpwl: PS: Now I see another reason for my confusion! Apparently, the top photo is from the review of the new RF board, with Topre sliders. The bottom photo appears to be a pic of CM Novatouch sliders ("hybrid" with Cherry mx-compatible stems). This may also explain the different appearance of the rings. The top photo would be the new Topre rings, whereas I am assuming that the bottom photo is of CM NT sliders with the "Hypersphere Silencing Rings". Now I understand the comparison you were making!

[Lpwl]

You got it right ! Now I see the difference.

I'm sorry about that confusion. My edit should have fixed it

[ajx]

Thanks for sharing your feedback, i ordered NT, i am torned betweend Vortex PBT OEM Profile sold here and those keycaps from Geekkeys (Cherry Profile) both are good imo but i want those ducky PBT black blank so bad
Is that advised to lube springs and domes?

If you can find PBT keycaps in OEM profile, these work best on the NT. The Cherry profile PBT caps from Geekkeys are nice, but they will give you bottoming-out noise.

No -- do not lube the springs or domes in a Topre-switch board!

Can you explain why?
I know the reason but no-one can argue it will have some effect on capacitive sensing mechanism from pcb?

[Muirium]

It's a waste of time. And yes, some lubes eat rubber for breakfast.

[TuxKey]

Hi guys,

So typing along on my new Topre Board liking the 45g FC660C..
However i do notice a couple of miner points.
The bigger keys seem to rattle a bit.
- Enter,Backspace,shift,CapsLock
And the compared to my Ducky DK9008 with pbt keycaps these pbt keycaps are way thiner.
Getting Topre keycaps is way way to expensive..
i did talk with a guy on youtube that posted a Wicked silent FC660C board.
And he used a NovaTouch for his Leopold hahaha..
But i read that the bigger keys where different..


@Hypersphere i already asked if Muirium if he would consider making a vid how
to place the nice o-rings were getting ..

But wanted to ask if you considered making one...
I can imagine your a pro by now

Regarding Lubing after reading what Muirium told me i’m not going to risk it.
Wil be doing the rings and perhaps some dampening material on the case..
And i will use silicone gloves to prevent body oils and acids from getting on the stems.
That seems like a good idea, hopefully i still have enough control to do the job..

btw lots of people talking about lubing Topre Switches..
they already feel quite smooth to me only sound that i can hear should be taking
care of with nice o-rings...
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49741.0

Also i’m reading about silent models..But isn’t that something that has bin on market
for a while ? RealForce had the model S but it is not uniform.
And the HHKB Type-S to small for me ..
So my only solution is o-rings..


Just don’t understand why someone won’t make cherry mx compatible stems ??
I would buy a set please take my $$ hahahah...

[ajx]

https://vid.me/Q630

Here is video of my silenced NT with landing pads, stabs lubbed

[Hypersphere]

As I have mentioned previously, I got my best Topre silencing results using a combination of installing Silencing Rings and using SuperLube 51010 oil to lube the stabilizers and slider rails of all the switches. I have not found it necessary to wear gloves when doing these modifications.

[seaworthy]

I just tried this (Hypersphere's) little spacebar mod, and I have to say there’s a massive difference. It’s elevated the spacebar to my favorite sounding key, where before it was the noisiest by a large margin. I didn’t even really know I was keeping score—there was just the faint feeling of dissatisfaction with something, and when I focused on listening, it was clearly the spacebar. Guess it wasn't much of a mystery; I was probably just ignoring it.

I had some anti-skid dots that are about the same diameter as the HHKB spacebar pads (on the “plate”). Mine are just a touch too thick causing me to strike the spacebar with a more force than the other keys (which leads to bottoming out a little harder on the other keys). I don't have a caliper for measuring thickness but I'd guess mine are about 1.2mm thick.

Maybe it will break in and become “just right,” but I wish all my keys sounded this throaty.

These are the pads I'm using. Something slightly thinner would probably be ideal, and you're probably better off purchasing these at a brick and mortar store than from Amazon but here's a link just the same.

[img]

Light_Duty_Non_Slip_Rubber_Protector_Pads_-_46_Pcs_-_Furniture_Pads_-_Amazon_com.png (567.91 KiB) Viewed 18910 times

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http://www.amazon.com/Light-Duty-Slip-R ... K5EB5QQZBQ

[Muirium]

Thanks for being specific! The PBT spacebar on my HHKB is simultaneously my most and least favourite key. Must look into this fix too.

[seaworthy]

I left an external hard drive resting on my HHKB modded spacebar overnight hoping the weight might compress the self-adhesive dots I added on my spacebar landing pads. It didn’t help, and the reduced travel is still noticeable (and annoying) so I tried something different.

self_grip.png (732.55 KiB) Viewed 18858 times

I used athletic self grip tape. It’s only about 1/4th the thickness of the adhesive dots, and the waffle texture seems to mute the sound of the descending strokes nearly as well as the dots. Still have the slightly annoying ascending stroke noise but this is a better compromise of feel and sound.

http://www.amazon.com/SelfGrip-Maximum- ... +grip+tape

[Hypersphere]

Here is what I use:

1/2 x 2 3/8 inch foam strips:

http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/p ... 003z-00069

FoamStrips.jpg (11.39 KiB) Viewed 18838 times

These are $1.29 from Newegg Business for a pack of 6 strips. I get mine from a local hardware store. They are not as textured as they appear in the photo. I cut them into 1/2-inch squares and stack them as might be needed to provide the desired distance for absorbing the impact from the spacebar. On a HHKB, I apply them over the built-in shock absorbers. On a RF87U or NT, I apply them in layers as needed on the top of the plate equally spaced on each side of the central spacebar switch.

[ajx]

So i am not only one who having HHKB spacebar noise issue? lol
These foam strips, where did you stick them?

[seaworthy]

hhkb_spacebar_rattle_-_Google_Search.png (377.19 KiB) Viewed 18800 times

So i am not only one who having HHKB spacebar noise issue? lol
These foam strips, where did you stick them?

[Hypersphere]

@seaworthy: Thanks for posting the annotated pic. This should eliminate any doubts about where to put shock-absorbing pads for the HHKB Pro 2 spacebar.

Likewise, for those who would like to do a similar ultra-simple mod for their RF87U or Novatouch keyboards, these do not have built-in shock absorber platforms like the HHKB Pro 2 has, but you would place the self-adhesive foam squares or circles in the same relative positions.

[Muirium]

Man, I should have asked for some of that stuff from you along with the rings! What physical store did you buy them in? The shipping is more than 200% of their price here in California.

[notarandomname]

@seaworthy: Thanks for posting the annotated pic. This should eliminate any doubts about where to put shock-absorbing pads for the HHKB Pro 2 spacebar.

Likewise, for those who would like to do a similar ultra-simple mod for their RF87U or Novatouch keyboards, these do not have built-in shock absorber platforms like the HHKB Pro 2 has, but you would place the self-adhesive foam squares or circles in the same relative positions.

any idea how thick the shock pads (expecially for the novatouch) should be?
Also has anyone made any silencing adjustments to the (novatouch) case itself - in a german forum someone placed a bitumen mat inide the case at the bottom.

[Madeupword]

Which provide a better typing experience and feel, a HHKB Pro 2 Type S or a HHKB Pro 2 with Hypersphere's silencing rings?

[Hypersphere]

Man, I should have asked for some of that stuff from you along with the rings! What physical store did you buy them in? The shipping is more than 200% of their price here in California.

The price seems to vary quite a lot. Only today did I find the Newegg Business price, which is the lowest I have seen. I got mine at a Carpenter Brothers hardware store, where the foam strips are sold under their "Do-it" brand. I paid around $4.00. I have also seen them on eBay and Amazon at various prices, I think in the range of $4.00 - $6.00 or so.

[suhaibin]

Has any one tried this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Shepherd-Hardware ... B00004YOHX
It is actually cheaper than the newegg one (considering shipping charge) and has been cut.

[ajx]

https://vid.me/blaG
That's spacebar noise kills me on my HHKB while on my NT, its dead silence

[RexS]

Has any one tried this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Shepherd-Hardware ... B00004YOHX

I have pack of the Shepherd Hardware anti-skid pads #9970 (38mm) that I purchased a while back. They look identical to a new pack of Everbilt pads I picked up this weekend from Home Depot. I found the price to be the same regardless of pad diameter, and since you're going to be cutting them up go big.

I played around with the anti-skid pads this weekend, but concluded that I have a much bigger issue...

https://vid.me/blaG
That's spacebar noise kills me on my HHKB while on my NT, its dead silence

I have the same thing going on: my PBT spacebar is dead quiet on my Type Heaven, but on my Realforce 104UB I can rattle the stabilizers by placing my index fingers on the far left and right edges of the spacebar and shifting about 20g of force back and forth like a seesaw. I'm neither lifting my fingertips nor depressing the spacebar.

Your video had two distinct noises; the most shrill sounds exactly like my rattling stabilizers while the deeper noise is likely what the recent posts in the thread are addressing with the anti-skid dampening. I removed the board from the case and at the very front edge you can access the spacebar stabilizers without further disassembly. Using toothpick science I was able to poke around and stop the rattling, but this is a Topre not a cocktail wiener, so...

I have to silence the rattle before I begin any dampening efforts. What's everybody's preferred stabilizer lubricant?

[RexS]

After adding a new member to my Topre family I got all excited about keyboards again and couldn't help but strap a mic to a gorilla and record some silencing comparison audio.

I am still blown away by the difference between the silenced and unsilenced Type Heaven. And although I prefer the feel of the Realforce's PBT keys over the ABS on the silenced Type Heaven there is something wispy and paper-like to the notes shuffling off the silenced Type Heaven that gives it a special place in the line-up.

This sounds great with headphones (well, the silenced boards anyway!).

[seaworthy]

Here’s another idea for silencing the HHKB spacebar. There is an amazing silicon / rubber product that you can shape. In about 24 hours you’ve got a firmed up rubbery surface.

I’m going to do a trial run to see how thin I can get it, but if it works out in the test I’m going to “live.”

https://sugru.com/guides/how-to-apply-a ... o-anything

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