Prototyping the next thing

[matt3o]

I'm still actually finalizing the WhiteFox but I believe it's time to show you my plans for the next big thing and possibly get your feedback.

As always with these projects it will take time... and it's not even 100% sure it is going to work, but I'll try.

Production and logistics
Designing a product is just 5-10% of the job. The real challenge is dealing with manufacturers, parts and components selection. quality control, making all parties happy, beta testing and of course logistics.

I have the opportunity to work with TEX they seem super excited to work on this and they have a lot of experience in keyboard making. I also have a backup plan, I'm in contact with a very smart guy in the UK that could help with the development.

To stay under the $200 psychological limit we need to break the 1000 tier. Which means distribution by MassDrop, but having the production under direct control means that we can have smaller batches sent directly to other distributors (or directly to us).

The keyboard
I have two projects. An RGB-done-right and a Wireless (BT4) project. Unfortunately the wireless thing is very complex and requires more time, so we are going RGB first.

The layouts for both projects are the same: 60% and 65%. From a dev standpoint they are the same and it is not going to be more expensive. I don't know if we will be able to produce both layouts at the same time in which case 60% first.

Common features for both projects:
- ALPS and Cherry compatibility (alps has no backlight)
- option for split (3u or 3.5u) spacebar
- option for trackpoint
- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

Features for RGB:

- 1:1 mapping, you can control each LED separately
- through hole LEDs, not SMD (!!) if some LEDs fry over time you'll be able to change them (you get spares)
- fully programmable RGB bottom strip of LEDs (these are SMD)
- keycaps are ABS coated and lasered (standard backlight compatible)
- fully programmable backlight + some standard options (pulse, rainbow, ripple, etc...)

Features for wireless:
- bluetooth 4
- long battery life
- (to be defined)

Two words regarding wireless. 1) the USB-power-to-battery switch is a patent, we can't use it without paying; 2) shipping rechargeable battery is a big no-no; 3) dealing with bluetooth involves using a lot of proprietary tools. These are two problems I'm trying to solve right now.

The case
We need to design the case. As soon as I have that we can have a quote and start production of the prototypes. The first prototypes won't be re-programmable and will have basic backlight options, later we'll hire an engineer to work on the firmware.

So if you have any suggestion on how the case should be and the project in general, please let's start the discussion now!

[scottc]

- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

Whaaaaat?! Nice!

Common features for both projects:
- ALPS and Cherry compatibility (alps has no backlight)
- option for split (3u or 3.5u) spacebar
- option for trackpoint
- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

This is basically a list of all the things I want in a keyboard. Very excited!

I can't wait for a bluetooth keyboard. I'm not really interested in RGB but 100% in for bluetooth.

[HzFaq]

- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

Whaaaaat?! Nice!

Exactly my reaction .

Split spacebar and trackpoint sounds awesome as well, you have my interest.

[kbdfr]

- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

Whaaaaat?! Nice!

Exactly my reaction . […]

Same here, but… what is "flash-mode"? Anything a normal user without computer skills can handle?

[matt3o]

Same here, but… what is "flash-mode"? Anything a normal user without computer skills can handle?

that will likely be a key-combo (like space+esc or something like that)

[flabbergast]

Trackpoint AND ALPS! Awesome!

[derzemel]

- ALPS and Cherry compatibility (alps has no backlight)

But if the PCB is both LPS and Cherry compatible and it has LED holes for the cherry switches, then it can also support ALPS switches with the Led cut-out.

See this thread here where a GH member has built a 60% with Green alps and LEDs: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.0

[matt3o]

technically it is feasible but you have to drill 4 holes per switch. you are welcome to do that but it's a DIY process, the keyboard can't come with ALPS and backlighting out of the factory.

[seaworthy]

bueno

[Matt_]

- fully programmable (you put the keyboard in flash-mode and it turns into a disk device, you drag and drop the new firmware and it's done!)

Sounds like a killer feature.

Will you be working with input club again? They have a RGB TKL keyboard cooking so perhaps you can join forces again and save some development/prototyping time, unless you have specific requirements for the RGB controller.

[XMIT]

If you're going with ABS key caps - please look into UV cure or other hard coatings to prevent shine.

[matt3o]

Will you be working with input club again? They have a RGB TKL keyboard cooking so perhaps you can join forces again and save some development/prototyping time, unless you have specific requirements for the RGB controller.

no, this time I'm going solo

If you're going with ABS key caps - please look into UV cure or other hard coatings to prevent shine.

oh yes of course they are UV coated!

[Engicoder]

the USB-power-to-battery switch is a patent, we can't use it without paying;

WTF! Automatic power fail-over is patented?

[Madhias]

Bluetooth! I am definitely waiting for this version, I am waiting for a small wireless keyboard a long time, I never really liked the one from Filco, the GON is so expensive, and there are also the Varmilo keyboards, but I think only TKL!

[Matt_]

no, this time I'm going solo

Hats off, and good luck then!

[matt3o]

the USB-power-to-battery switch is a patent, we can't use it without paying;

WTF! Automatic power fail-over is patented?

the circuitry that we would need I believe is owned by a company named Zippy.

[Matt_]

the USB-power-to-battery switch is a patent, we can't use it without paying;

WTF! Automatic power fail-over is patented?

the circuitry that we would need I believe is owned by a company named Zippy.

Are there not alternative designs? Something like a battery charger with load sharing, or something like that?

I am aware that not everything found on electronics.stackexchange can be integrated into a commercial product, but still...

[matt3o]

if we go TEX we have to work with what they are comfortable with. That would make development so much faster. Otherwise we have to build everything from scratch. As I said I'm currently exploring both options.

[mastermachetier]

if we go TEX we have to work with what they are comfortable with. That would make development so much faster. Otherwise we have to build everything from scratch. As I said I'm currently exploring both options.

Is it just development time and cost that is stopping from producing bluetooth power failover circuitry?

[matt3o]

of course we can pay to use the patent, but with batches so small it's not ideal (or even feasible)

[Dan]

Why not using 2 AAA batteries (replaced with rechargeable Eneloops, if desired), like many BT keyboards do? If the battery life is long enough (weeks?), i don't see such a big need for a USB battery charger, imo...

[seaworthy]

of course we can pay to use the patent, but with batches so small it's not ideal (or even feasible)

Maybe I'm the only one, but AAA batteries significantly dilutes the value of not having a cable. The Matias Laptop Pro goes eight months between charges. It should be achievable to get one that can last a couple months and still be reasonably small.

[matt3o]

I still have to check but it might be feasible to have the keyboard charging via USB but still communicating via bluetooth. Meaning that you never actually use it in USB mode even if the cable is connected, but at least you can charge the battery. Problem is that we cannot ship lipo batteries, so the user would need to buy that.

Personally if the keyboard goes for 2-3 months over AA Eneloop, I would be fine with that. But anyway let's see what we can do.

Anyway I need to design the case first to get a quote.

[Wodan]

AA Eneloops are first choice in my opinion

[shreebles]

Trackpoint option sounds terrific.
Would that decrease battery time, though?
Perhaps it will be a bit choppy with Bluetooth, though, as BT has only 125hz polling rate. This seems irrelevant, but is very noticeable, and comes from my own experience of using two bluetooth mice.

[matt3o]

not sure if we can have the trackpoint on BT, but the rgb version will have it

[shreebles]

Ah, I see. Either would be really nice. Using a Surface Pro with a mech that has a trackpoint sounds like a really good portable workstation.
PS: In terms of pricing, do you think it will compete with the Tex Yoda?

[matt3o]

PS: In terms of pricing, do you think it will compete with the Tex Yoda?

how much was that?

[shreebles]

I believe it was 199 as a kit, no switches.

PS: Will there be ISO compatibility?
Is this the size you have in mind?

Spoiler:

[Muirium]

Spoiled!


See how the J key almost lines up with the middle of the keyboard? Argh! Assymmetry!! Home position is way off to the left, and so will be a TrackPoint.

How about breaking the mold and adding the extra keys to the *left* of a the 60% block instead? Sixties are already right-hand heavy. Why add to that lopsidedness? Why follow!