Great/Interesting Finds

[XMIT]

> 3 Vtg Clickey Kelly Services Training Keyboards with Training Panels IBM WANG

These are all foam and foil.

[Chyros]

I picked up that "Old Logo" Dell AT101 listed a few days ago for $39 shipped, which I think is pretty good. Nobody was biting so I made an offer. Yellowing is always a little irksome but it's hard to find these unyellowed. I think it'll go in my permanent collection alongside my AT101 with salmon Alps.

I also received my Focus FK-2001 with blue Alps that I mentioned a little while ago. It's even better than I expected, almost new condition. I will make a new thread soon with a gratuitous number of glamour shots.

Spread the blue Alps love . You might also well like the pine SKCM blacks, they're great!

Resistance is futile .

I love it

[E3E]

I picked up that "Old Logo" Dell AT101 listed a few days ago for $39 shipped, which I think is pretty good. Nobody was biting so I made an offer. Yellowing is always a little irksome but it's hard to find these unyellowed. I think it'll go in my permanent collection alongside my AT101 with salmon Alps.

I also received my Focus FK-2001 with blue Alps that I mentioned a little while ago. It's even better than I expected, almost new condition. I will make a new thread soon with a gratuitous number of glamour shots.

Here I am, still tiresomely restoring my Xerox boards while juggling with mind-numbing assembly jobs I have from others. I restored one Xerox board, the 1990 board, to near 100%, just need to retrobright the one doubleshot STOP key and the spacebar and then I'll have one full Xerox done. I also opened up every switch to make sure and clear it of dust and debris as well as replace the foam under the space bar, which degraded to sticky nothingness over the years, and cleaned the plate as well. Surprisingly, no rust on any of the keyboards. Can't wait to restore the KB101A too!

When I'm done with all the Xerox boards, then I'll restore its little mices.

Good find on that salmon AT101. I have one, but I'm waiting on another with mint caps from taobao (it's getting really complicated) for the heretic act of dyeing them for a keyboard build of mine.

Good to hear you have a worthy FK-2001 as opposed to that rusted out one that went for far too much! I'll definitely make threads for the Xerox and KB101A as well as do some write-ups for the wiki on the Xerox keyboards and switches.

[Redmaus]

E3E, you drive me mad with those Xerox boards!

I have one neon green switch from Chyros as part of a trade we did, and I love it but can't have enough for a full board. Such a tease!

Anyhow, good luck on those restorations

[Tuntematon]

Here I am, still tiresomely restoring my Xerox boards while juggling with mind-numbing assembly jobs I have from others. I restored one Xerox board, the 1990 board, to near 100%, just need to retrobright the one doubleshot STOP key and the spacebar and then I'll have one full Xerox done. I also opened up every switch to make sure and clear it of dust and debris as well as replace the foam under the space bar, which degraded to sticky nothingness over the years, and cleaned the plate as well. Surprisingly, no rust on any of the keyboards. Can't wait to restore the KB101A too!

When I'm done with all the Xerox boards, then I'll restore its little mices.

Good find on that salmon AT101. I have one, but I'm waiting on another with mint caps from taobao (it's getting really complicated) for the heretic act of dyeing them for a keyboard build of mine.

Good to hear you have a worthy FK-2001 as opposed to that rusted out one that went for far too much! I'll definitely make threads for the Xerox and KB101A as well as do some write-ups for the wiki on the Xerox keyboards and switches.

Looks like I have some restoration work ahead of me too, which I will probably put off for a while (forever?). I have two Zenith boards with green Alps but they both feel like garbage. Are there any worthwhile shortcuts for switch restoration? I'd love to be able to toss the switches in some kind of super solution, swish them around a bit and just break down and work out the dust and particle build-up that way. I haven't done any serious research yet but it's probably wishful thinking eh?

I actually have two salmon Alps Dell AT101s, both pretty grungy (the caps are bathing as we speak) and that old black Alps AT101 on the way. My new Focus with its pristine, ready to use blue Alps sort of makes me wonder why I bother with crappy, dirty Alps at all.

@Chyros -- I haven't tried black Alps yet. It doesn't seem to get much love but I always like to try a switch for myself, since as we all know, dirt and wear can dramatically affect switch feel. My green Alps being a good example, if I didn't know better I would think that green Alps are terrible because mine are terrible. The old black Alps Dell AT101 you reviewed was nice and clean and you like the switch, so there you go. Mine will probably be terrible

[Redmaus]

One of my Dell AT-101's+a small cash bonus for one of your Zenith boards with greens?

Full ANSI layout on the Dell. Sorry for haggling in great finds thread

I don't know of any switch shortcuts, because the dust gets in the housing and the hardest to reach and most important part is where the inner housing and slider touch.

[Wodan]

Early bird mystery wyse PCE:
https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/322028763122
Rubber dome or not ?
Find out for 1,29€ + shipping...

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

Surely it's too sexy to be rubber domes.

[Wodan]

If that's MX based, it's the best deal for our surrender monkey friends I've seen yet.

Okay it seems the caps are MX compatible but the keyboards are "better" rubberdomes:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73732.0

Keycaps also look pad printed.

[seebart]

> 3 Vtg Clickey Kelly Services Training Keyboards with Training Panels IBM WANG

These are all foam and foil.

Good. Noting wrong with that.

[Blaise170]

Good. Noting wrong with that.

Foam and foil is awful.

[seebart]

Good. Noting wrong with that.

Foam and foil is awful.

That's your personal opinion, thanks for sharing it. Quite an achievement.

[XMIT]

Good. Noting wrong with that.

Foam and foil is awful.

I believe that, foam and foil boards are unreliable (the foam degrades) and the tactile feel is not great (bottoming out is vague due to the foam). Otherwise, these are capacitive sensing boards that with some work can operate reliably for long periods of time. They generally come in two flavors: linear (spring) and vaguely tactile (buckling rubber sleeve, often of tactile quality similar to a cheap rubber dome board).

For example, I think that a serious retrofit to replace the foam and foil with a high durometer rubber (to dampen bottoming out but make it sharper) and a conical spring (to raise the actuation point) would do wonders for these switches.

[snuci]

A couple days ago, I replaced the foam in my Hyperion computer (Key Tronic foam and foil) and it's working 100% great. The fell is naturally highly dependent on the density of the foam and if it's open or closed cell foam. Open cell is lighter.

[seebart]

XMIT it may be your opinion which is fine, is very certainly not the consensus!

On the other hand I should say the only foam and foil keyboard I own is from the late 1970's so I cannot judge younger ones.

[Muirium]

I haven't actually encountered foam and foil. The name alone is enough to put me off! But then what actually is the general consensus on them? XMIT's opinion sounds spot on, from what I've read. They could have been okay when new (or retrofitted) but nothing spectacular.

[XMIT]

XMIT it may be your opinion which is fine, is very certainly not the consensus!

Sure. Earlier post edited to reflect this more clearly. This view is formed by the fact that these boards typically do not sell very well from my stores. I tend to leave them behind at the recycling facility. Some certainly have nice sculpted spherical key caps.

I welcome a differing view point for my enlightenment.

[XMIT]

A couple days ago, I replaced the foam in my Hyperion computer (Key Tronic foam and foil) and it's working 100% great. The fell is naturally highly dependent on the density of the foam and if it's open or closed cell foam. Open cell is lighter.

Yes. With a thorough cleaning and refurbish I think these can be just fine. Not too many go through the effort of replacing foam and pads. You could make a small profit selling replacements here.

With all foam and foil switches, and in particular Key Tronic: be sure to pull the key caps straight up or else you will break two thin legs on the underside. They are easy to glue back in place with cyanoacrylate (Krazy) glue, plastic cement, or even a tiny drop of pure acetone but it is better to not break them at all.

[seebart]

I know we have quite differentiating opinions on them, also one of the few switches that constantly gets bashed by the same people over and over again until it's elevated to a "consensus". Let the people have their opinion!

YOUR view is formed by the fact that these boards typically do not sell very well from YOUR stores.

So do you then think that your personal opinion automatically applies to the rest of the world?

[Muirium]

Thoroughly enjoying seeing Seebart play the Kbdfr in this switch reputation fight, versus XMIT playing as me!

[snuci]

How about an actual thread where this discussion would be good instead of here?

keyboards-f2/foam-and-foil-like-em-or-not-t13225.html

[Muirium]

Aaargh! Not another poll!!

[snuci]

I was thinking of having a poll about if we should have a poll but that would have been worse

[seebart]

It's not even about the goddam switch!

Opinion vs. your personal experience / preference.

Some may like them, others may not. Now how unreliable they may be that could be tested and proven. The rest is very relative and most certainly NOT any "consensus" at all.

[Muirium]

Nice!

But you're missing the oversized animated smiley to really slam your point. You know how much he loves those!

I was thinking of having a poll about if we should have a poll but that would have been worse

I'd like a long metal pole. Good for knocking sense back into pollsters!

[seebart]

Forget the smiley I'm not on kbdfr's level to begin with. Smiley's won't help me. I estimate XMIT to be a pretty smart open minded guy which is why this suprises me. Of course it's fine to not like them, but don't make it a "general fact". Your pretty harsh when it comes to Cherry MX which is way more problematic since that switch is all over the place compared to obscure foam and foil which we can pretty much forget in the bigger picture.

[Muirium]

Now that you put it like that: being MX skeptic on a mechanical keyboard forum is just my kind of move.



"Gracious!"

But it's true. I do honestly dislike them, especially the modern ones. Ditto for Matias switches. Inconveniently enough!

[ohaimark]

I hadn't enjoyed a brand-name MX switch until I received the vintage MX Whites in my KB-5160AT.

They're buttery smooth and delicate in click/tactility -- they must have had a nice break-in process.

[beltet]

This is not a great find. But interesting how much a Model M can bring in under certain circumstances:
http://www.tradera.com/item/340854/2523 ... -mekaniskt

[elecplus]

Uncleaned XT keyboard for $65 with free shipping
http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Vintage ... /326873379