The Oracle Answers

[fluxdada]

Keyboard suggestion based on my requirements?

Do you have suggestions for a keyboard that meets the my following requirements? As far as I can tell the Noppoo Choc Mini 84 and the KBT Race II seem closest but I'm so new there might be others out there I'm not aware of.

Requirements (in order of importance):
- F1 key directly above (in proximity) and squarely over 1 key, F2 over 2 and so on
- Cherry MX Blue (genuine preferred but not absolute requirement)
- Backlighting (mono-color ok)
- 10 Key (nice to have but not totally required)
- Dampened (but I can do that afterward via 3rd party)
- $60 - $90 or so for price

The most important feature is the F keys directly next too and squarely above the number keys. The Noppoo Choc Mini 84 is an example of the placement in looking for.

The KBT Race II FKeys are slightly offset to the right which is very close but I prefer F Keys directly above like the Chic Mini.

Many I've found that are very close are labeled 75% or 87 key keyboards.

Any help would be appreciated.

[keytarizt]

What does everyone think is a good solid keyboard? I'll tell you a bit about myself that might help.

I play sc2 so I need something with F1-F12 keys so that rules out pokers and stuff. I'd prefer it to not have macros.
I like simple things that work; no macros or leds preferably.
It'd be nice if it came with good keycaps but idk if any boards at a normal price range do?
I'm using a quickfire stealth with brown switches right now.

I'm leaning towards blue switches and a ducky legend, das pro from chinese factory, or filco.

[Muirium]

You play a keytar? Whoa there, fella. All bets are off!

Tell us more about what you're looking for that MX brown isn't delivering. And what floats your boat when it comes to quality caps. Seen any mesmerizing pics?

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

What does everyone think is a good solid keyboard? I'll tell you a bit about myself that might help.

I play sc2 so I need something with F1-F12 keys so that rules out pokers and stuff. I'd prefer it to not have macros.
I like simple things that work; no macros or leds preferably.
It'd be nice if it came with good keycaps but idk if any boards at a normal price range do?
I'm using a quickfire stealth with brown switches right now.

I'm leaning towards blue switches and a ducky legend, das pro from chinese factory, or filco.

You've pretty much described a 122-key IBM Model F, which are relatively rare but do pop up on eBay every once in a while, and I'm sure you could get it elsewhere if you dug, too. A Model M would fit that description, as well, though some keys - keys directly vertically adjacent to eachother if I'm not mistaken - will not register simultaneously, on account of two-key rollover (if someone can clarify, by all means, do - my knowledge of key rollover is fleeting at best).

[Muirium]

An F122 looks like this by the way…



Talk about diving in the deep end! I doubt that's quite what he had in mind.

As much as I love my little SSK, Model Ms aren't for gaming. Much too loud, much too heavy, and not nearly enough rollover for the finger contortions games apparently desire.

[keytarizt]

You play a keytar? Whoa there, fella. All bets are off!

Tell us more about what you're looking for that MX brown isn't delivering. And what floats your boat when it comes to quality caps. Seen any mesmerizing pics?

hahaha, I'd thought I'd just make a punny name, although I do play guitar and piano (but not well).

You've pretty much described a 122-key IBM Model F, which are relatively rare but do pop up on eBay every once in a while, and I'm sure you could get it elsewhere if you dug, too. A Model M would fit that description, as well, though some keys - keys directly vertically adjacent to eachother if I'm not mistaken - will not register simultaneously, on account of two-key rollover (if someone can clarify, by all means, do - my knowledge of key rollover is fleeting at best).

Interesting, I think you might have it with the model m or f. I'm surprised old keyboards have n-key rollover. I youtubed a couple vids and I love the sound of the model m. The f is super pingy, not sure if I would like it. I'm sure I'll eventually get a separate keyboard for typing anyway, so maybe I'll get a model m for typing and keep the quickfire for gaming, who knows.

The quickfire is ok, but after about 2 years I'm ready for something different. I wish the clicks and keys felt more hefty. I broke a post on the backspace switch the other day, and I'm getting some ducky keycaps on sale, some o-rings, and a new switch from mechanicalkeyboards.com to fix it, but I was looking for a new kb before that anyway. I probably sound pretty wish washy, but once I found headphones and speakers I liked I had no desire to look for anything new in the last 5 years or so, and I'm hoping I get to that place with a keyboard.

An F122 looks like this by the way…



Talk about diving in the deep end! I doubt that's quite what he had in mind.

As much as I love my little SSK, Model Ms aren't for gaming. Much too loud, much too heavy, and not nearly enough rollover for the finger contortions games apparently desire.

Yeah, the model m is ruled out for now, but the f should work. It actually might be better than a standard layout since I like the one with the F keys on the left hand side. They'd be easier to hit for my camera location hotkeys than at the top. The only thing scaring me away is that so far the adapter looks like it's $40. I'm hesitant to blow more than 100 on something I can't try first, but I probably can't try anything in usa.

[Blaise170]

IBMs are probably more common in the US than anywhere else.

[keytarizt]

IBMs are probably more common in the US than anywhere else.

They're not exactly sitting around in stores and stuff to try out first though.

[Crazy Canadian XXIV]

Interesting, I think you might have it with the model m or f. I'm surprised old keyboards have n-key rollover. I youtubed a couple vids and I love the sound of the model m. The f is super pingy, not sure if I would like it. I'm sure I'll eventually get a separate keyboard for typing anyway, so maybe I'll get a model m for typing and keep the quickfire for gaming, who knows.

As a Model F owner, the pinging isn't terribly intrusive, to me. Less so through headphones, especially noise-cancelling/isolating ones. And if it's any consolidation, I can personally guarantee that it'll grow on you after a little while

The quickfire is ok, but after about 2 years I'm ready for something different. I wish the clicks and keys felt more hefty. I broke a post on the backspace switch the other day, and I'm getting some ducky keycaps on sale, some o-rings, and a new switch from mechanicalkeyboards.com to fix it, but I was looking for a new kb before that anyway. I probably sound pretty wish washy, but once I found headphones and speakers I liked I had no desire to look for anything new in the last 5 years or so, and I'm hoping I get to that place with a keyboard.

I don't know if "hefty" is what I'd use to describe the Model F's switches; "crisp" definitely fits, though. Actuation force on a Model F's switch is about 60cn if I'm not mistaken. If that ends up being too light for your taste, I suppose you could buy a bunch of springs from Unicomp and replace the default ones to get an actuation force of roughly 75cn or so, but that'd be a bit of an intensive task.

Yeah, the model m is ruled out for now, but the f should work. It actually might be better than a standard layout since I like the one with the F keys on the left hand side. They'd be easier to hit for my camera location hotkeys than at the top. The only thing scaring me away is that so far the adapter looks like it's $40. I'm hesitant to blow more than 100 on something I can't try first, but I probably can't try anything in usa.

Shit, I totally forgot that the XT and AT have function keys on the side! The converter/controller cost is certainly something to consider, as well as if you should get an Xwhatsit controller or Soarer's converter. Generally, the Soarer's converter is plug-and-play (assuming you get an inline one), while the Xwhatsit controller is a bit more intensive and hands-on, but can provide superior functionality. Also, an Xwhatsit controller won't work with an XT.

All that said, though, I'd say the cost is justifiable; you'll be hard-pressed to find a keyboard built better for the ages than a Model F, and until the day comes when somebody clones IBM's beam springs, I can't really see myself using anything else as extensively as my Model F. The value for money is strong with these ones, even at some of the upper price points (and unlike Topre, you're not paying for a fancy name and glorified rubber domes )

[Chyros]

The Model F's keyfeel is up there with the best of them. An endgame board for many. There are no Model Fs with a fairly normal layout however. Ironically, the F122 is one of the most normal ones of the lot.

[XMIT]

The Model F's keyfeel is up there with the best of them. An endgame board for many. There are no Model Fs with a fairly normal layout however. Ironically, the F122 is one of the most normal ones of the lot.

workshop-f7/f-ssk-t10744.html

There is a reason I'm so excited about the FSSK project.

[Scarpia]

I now rule to make this not too complicated until we rule the world and we'd have to truly worry about abuse of our logo, and let our open nature prevail: if you're an amateur enthusiast or small keyboard related business, and you want to make some keys, t-shirts, hats, whatever with the DT logo below a quantity of 500, go ahead.

Wise decision. Although I'd have demanded 10 complimentary sets of anything made with the DT logo sent to one of the Club founders as a minimum. You wouldn't make DT branded things without setting a few aside for the club, would you?

[kbdfr]

[…] Although I'd have demanded 10 complimentary sets of anything made with the DT logo sent to one of the Club founders as a minimum. You wouldn't make DT branded things without setting a few aside for the club, would you?

Somehow I fail to find you in the list of DT Club members
How to joint the DT Club: club-member-talk-f39/how-to-become-a-de ... t6798.html

[Scarpia]

[…] Although I'd have demanded 10 complimentary sets of anything made with the DT logo sent to one of the Club founders as a minimum. You wouldn't make DT branded things without setting a few aside for the club, would you?

Somehow I fail to find you in the list of DT Club members
How to joint the DT Club: club-member-talk-f39/how-to-become-a-de ... t6798.html

I was just trying to be funny I'll be quiet now

[zuglufttier]

Oh mighty oracle, what might this be? The keyboard of a Canon A-200 TP 16/20...

index2.jpg (124.59 KiB) Viewed 5835 times

index.jpg (151.92 KiB) Viewed 5835 times

[Blaise170]

Oh mighty oracle, what might this be? The keyboard of a Canon A-200 TP 16/20...

From what I can find, the desktop version uses Alps SKCM White switches, and almost all Japanese companies in this time period were using Alps switches (even IBM buckling spring keyboards used Alps plate spring switches). By this I can induce that it will likely be Alps, probably of a variety such as White.

[zuglufttier]

Seems to be built in 1983... White alps, not so interesting

[Blaise170]

Anyone ever seen one of these? Looks interesting but I want to make sure it's actually mechanical before I drop that amount of money on it.

[guk]

wiki/Acer_6083

[Blaise170]

Ah well looks like I can at least update the wiki. Not a POS system but a laptop! From the Acer 1100LX.

[u-ra]

Are the top halves of the SKCM series interchangeable? I.e. could I replace the top half of a bamboo SKCM black with a top half of a pine SKCM white? (Top half as in slider, leaf, spring and the cover).

[Muirium]

I thiiiiiink so, but I've never tried it. And although I recognize the bamboo and pine terms, I can never remember what they mean, so weight my hunch accordingly!

[u-ra]

I thiiiiiink so, but I've never tried it. And although I recognize the bamboo and pine terms, I can never remember what they mean, so weight my hunch accordingly!

Pine has slits, bamboo doesn't.

Edit: I just tried it and it seems to work.

[bubblebobbler]

hi, so as I said in another thread earlier (and then realised I probably wasn't following etiquette), I recieved a keyboard without a cable today.

The keyboard has an ADB female port on either side (I assume to plug an ADB mouse into it if so desired).

since it has an ADB port, there is no chance of it being a ps/2 interface like all of the other variants of the board, right?

[HzFaq]

I have a board with an ADB socket on the keyboard that speaks PS2 so it is possible, although unlikely.

[Muirium]

Whaaaaaat? Whatever did they go and do that for?

2x ADB sockets is a sure fire sign the board in question was for Apple computers. Standard equipment on ADB era hardware: one for the computer and one for the mouse, your choice which way around. So much better than PS/2's awful alternative: one for the keyboard, one for the mouse, but two identical sockets. Don't get them confused now! An actual step backwards from the AT for keyboard and serial for mouse days before. Oh IBM!

But now you've got me questioning which way is up and down again.

[HzFaq]

It's on my Lil' Big board, it's a PC version of a Mac based board so I'm guessing they kept the hardware the same and changed it's brain or something...

It certainly confused the shit out of me/my ADB converter the first time I plugged it in, luckily I got it NIB and the cable provided was PS2 on one end and ADB on the other.

[Muirium]

Yikes. They were just asking for magic smoke from their users' fried logicboards with penny pinching antics like that. Eijits. Hope they got class actioned! That's so stupid it's violent.

[HzFaq]

Cable in question


Board in question


Despite her idiosyncrasies she's one of my favourites .

[Blaise170]

I got some of my Japanese boxes opened and inventoried now; several of the boards use these weird PS2/ADB cables but I only have one. Know where I could get more?