A new car...

[matt3o]

With my great pain I'm in need to buy a new car... I've been able to do public transportation and on-the-fly-rental since 2010 but unfortunately due to new life circumstances I need to get one.

For me car is a box on wheels that goes from point A to point B. Any recommendations? I don't need a lot of power, I hate huge cars and low maintenance cost is critical. Electric cars are fancy, but we are not ready yet (very little infrastructure over here). Hybrid is an option but I actually use the car so little that I don't think it would really make much difference.

Thanks!

[Redmaus]

I personally drive a Honda Accord from 2001 and I love it but I don't know anything about European cars.

[matt3o]

I actually like the Honda Jazz, but I know nothing about it. I believe it's a 1.3cc which looks overkill for mostly a city car... but maybe I'm wrong

[Scarpia]

For low maintenance, you want to look at reliability index scores. Cliff notes: Skoda Octavia is currently (and surprisingly) one of the market leaders in reliability; Toyota has been at the top for more than a decade, and there are consistently great reliability scores for pricier makes like BMW and Mercedes (less great from Audi). As a rule, stay away from french built cars (though there are a few exceptions lately). Mazdas do quite well, as do Volvos and IIRC Nissans. I believe you can find good Kias and Hyundais too, but I think those have good models and bad ones, so check the reliability indices yourself.

But rule #1 in cars as in keyboards: beware of subjective advice from random people on internet forums. Sometimes they (we) can get overexcited about some make or model (or switch) and invite you aboard the latest hype train.

[Chyros]

Generally a rule of thumb is that if you want a car that's just a car, get a Toyota. It's very hard to go wrong with them. Not very exciting, but they do the job marvellously.

I miss my old '86 Merc ;( .

[matt3o]

For low maintenance, you want to look at reliability index scores.

this is actually a very good advice. Thanks! Honda jazz seems pretty good but I'll probably go Toyota Yaris.

[derzemel]

ok, so car has to be: cheap to buy, simple, cheap to maintain, reliable and probably you need a big trunk (so you can fill it up with plenty of keyboards).

If you want a new car, I would recommend a Dacia Logan or the hatchback model, the Sandero
They are both build in Romania and they are everywhere here and people are very happy with them. I also saw quite a few in Italy as well. Regarding reliability, they are simple cars with out many things that can get broken.

If you want a Second hand car, then prepare yourself with a huge amount of patience. I searched for almost a year, I saw and tested over 30 cars before finding the one I liked.
Here are a few things you need to watch when buying a second hand car:
1. The number of KM. Usually a car from 2009 would have ~100k-150k KM, even more. If you find a car from 2006 with 150k KM and the owner is not and old lady, then you should stay away (the KM number on the dashboard may be tampered with)
2. Interior: If buttons are faded with icons worn out, the steering wheel is also worn out, the upholstery looks bad, there are strange smells, then stay away. The car was used allot and it may have way more KM than advertised.
3. The body of the car: look at it carefully, look at the lines to be straight, try to spot rust (usually on the corners of the doors). Look at the edges of the doors to see if they are bent (they could have been bent when the door was opened). Look at the edges (from inside and outside) of the windshield to see if there are problems with how it was glued. This is a clear clue that the windshield was replaced. Also, the windshield has a code on it that contains the year it was made. If it has not been replaced, it should have the same year as the one the car was made.
4. The engine bay, look to see if it is very dirty or very clean. If it is very clean the engine may have been power washed and that doesn't sound good for the electronics. If there are oil spots, then the car might have oil leaks. If you can spot the starter motor, look at it to see it the copper wires are clean and not blacked out (if it is not a sealed model).
5. Driving the car: listen for strange noises. It is best to drive the car on all kinds of roads so make sure the it is held together ok. Look also for rust in the engine bay,
6. See if the owner has both keys of the car. Usually when they have only one key, then the car was in a bad crash (total damage) and the insurance company will take one of the keys (at least that is the case in Romania).
7. Watch the seller of the car. If he is a person that talks allot and is really trying to sell the car and talks constantly about how good the car is, then this should make you suspicious. Ask him lots of questions about the car (when it was bought, paper trail of the car, issues with the car, etc) and watch him carefully. Try to investigate the seller, maybe you know someone that knows him, to find out more details. IF he is an used car dealer, then you should be suspicious.
8. Check the paper trail of the car.
9. Take the car to an official service to do a check-up. If the seller does not want this, walk away.

For example: I saw a Skoda Octavia which looked very good. The guy selling it had a car paint and body shop (first thing that made suspicious). It had 140k km but the engine ran good, not strange sounds or jerks when changing gears. When I took it for a test drive, I asked the seller for the second key and he did not have it (he said that he lost it - second suspicious thing). I noticed a small banging noise, under the driver's seat, when crossing speed limiters (3rd). I took it to a service to check it up. The guy at the service did a quick visual check and he pointed that the windshield had been glued badly and when I told him that the car had only one key he was convinced that the car was in a bad crash. He also told me that the banging noise was clearly from bad welds made to repair the car.
Another car I saw had the paper trail like this: The car was brought to Romania from Germany. The service history book had the plastic cover with French writing, the Book itself had English instructions, and the service notes were in German and written badly (grammar mistakes). I walked away instantly.

If you decide on a second hand car, then Skoda Octavia 1 and 2 are ok (quite reliable), Kia Cee'd is also reliable, VW Golf (especially Golf 4 were very reliable) and Toyota make reliable cars.

[matt3o]

thanks for the insight, derzemel but I don't really want to put myself in the second hand car nightmare.

I'll buy new and keep it for 10 years (to say the least )

[Scottex]

For low maintenance, you want to look at reliability index scores.

this is actually a very good advice. Thanks! Honda jazz seems pretty good but I'll probably go Toyota Yaris.

I have had a Yaris for 10 years, very little problems totally recommended

[fohat]

I am on my 3rd Camry now and had 2 Corollas before that, starting in the mid-late 1980s.

Also had a Honda Odyssey for the wife that was probably the best vehicle I have ever owned.

[Chyros]

For low maintenance, you want to look at reliability index scores.

this is actually a very good advice. Thanks! Honda jazz seems pretty good but I'll probably go Toyota Yaris.

I have had a Yaris for 10 years, very little problems totally recommended

The Yaris is one of the best allrounder cars for sure, it's hard to go wrong with one of them.

[flabbergast]

Actually IMO most of the cars made these days are made to last almost exactly 5 years (or whatever the factory warranty time is), and then various parts start failing. Not necessarily the engine, but various little pieces here and there. And this includes Japanese cars. So cars made 10-20 years ago are more likely to be in a good shape today (provided normal level of care) then today's cars in 10 years.

Also there's only a few big merged companies now, so e.g. Skodas are >=95% the same as Volkswagens for instance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IMO it's good to have a look at the reliability scores, but a new car (any make) will very likely last trouble-free 5-7 years unless you're one of the unlucky 3-5%.

(Personal experience: didn't ever have a Yaris but I actually drive a Toyota Starlet (precursor to Yaris) and it's great

[scottc]

Thanks for sharing your story, derzemel. I'm quite a suspicious person when dealing with these sort of things and it's good to see that it's not unfounded! I've never had a need for a car but it's likely that I'll learn to drive at some point in the future, so this is all very interesting.

[flabbergast]

Yea, don't ever trust anything a car dealer will tell you. I had more bad experiences than good ones with this profession.

It takes some amount of luck to find a reliable car person; or someone who has a stake at not pissing you off (e.g. a family member or someone who doesn't benefit from you buying anything).

[fohat]

Yea, don't ever trust anything a car dealer will tell you. I had more bad experiences than good ones with this profession.

It takes some amount of luck to find a reliable car person; or someone who has a stake at not pissing you off (e.g. a family member or someone who doesn't benefit from you buying anything).

I made a discovery a couple of decades ago that has guided me ever since:

The man to talk to about cars is a mechanic who works on them every day.

[vivalarevolución]

Uggh. New cars. Such a money pit. I recommend trying to find a combo of low maintenance costs, reliability, and good resale value, if you ever are able to go carless again.

[seaworthy]

Edmunds is a good web site for reviews and comparisons. Obviously some cars on this site won’t be available in Europe or will be marketed under another name.

Here’s four cars to compare from. The one getting the best ratings in the US the last 4-5 years in this class is Mazda.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/ ... Id=4778037

[flabbergast]

The trouble with US reports is that the cars are really different (at least they used to be when I lived in the US). For instance Volkswagens, (at least used to be) ones of the most reliable cars in Europe, were assembled in Mexico for the US market, with rather predictable results.

[Blaise170]

I've heard that Fords are generally made in Europe these days, and my family has had no major issues with the Fords we've bought (several of my older family members used to work at Ford so we get Fords). My Focus is at 145,000 miles (233,000km) and the only repairs I've really needed is a broken engine mount and an electrical issue fix.

[auto-d2]

I'm hoping matt3o will post a follow up thread titled "building a custom car from the ground up".

[matt3o]

I was actually thinking about that

[vivalarevolución]

I was actually thinking about that

I have some friends that have done this. Just think of it like a big keyboard with a few more parts, and you get the idea....

[scottc]

At least you don't have to worry about wireless connectivity for a car...

[Spikebolt]

I own a Yaris for like 8 years and it has never failed me. I do the maintenance routines and it still feels like new. I don't drive that much, though.

[vivalarevolución]

At least you don't have to worry about wireless connectivity for a car...

Have you been in a new car recently? They are essentially computers with wheels these days.

[flabbergast]

That's actually pretty scary: pretty much all the companies have really crappy security, and it usually doesn't matter too much, but with cars.... /me shudders
http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-re ... p-highway/

[Mr.Bean]

Go with Toyota or Subaru these things will outlast you.

[scottc]

At least you don't have to worry about wireless connectivity for a car...

Have you been in a new car recently? They are essentially computers with wheels these days.

Actually, funnily though, not at all - I just get public transport everywhere! It's terrifying to think of what vulnerabilities the terrible software developers have left in cars...

[matt3o]

That's actually pretty scary: pretty much all the companies have really crappy security, and it usually doesn't matter too much, but with cars.... /me shudders
http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-re ... p-highway/

all (most?) modern cars can be controlled externally, but you usually need to be physically connected to them anyway. Taking a car with an internet connection is asking for troubles.

[elecplus]

FBI issues warning on computerized cars http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fbi-a ... SKCN0WK0BB