Alps Appreciation

[jacobolus]

I asked Bob Tibbetts, sometimes considered the guru of the Northgate keyboard, a question about a transplant of blue Alps switches, and got this unexpected tirade about how white and blue are identical:

Why are you going to all the work and pain to swap the switches? The switches are exactly the same. Take them apart and look at the inside. The only difference is the blue plunger.[...]

It’s not worth repeating this again. Bob Tibbetts is probably a nice guy, but he apparnetly doesn’t care enough about keyboard switches to notice clear differences in sound and feel, and when looking at disassembled switches, he isn’t very observant. The differences are not exactly invisible: the switchplate, spring, and click leaf all have obviously different shapes between the two switches, and the housing was made on different tooling to accommodate the change in switchplate.

Omnikey boards with white Alps switches are also great keyboards, and depending on taste I can certainly imagine someone preferring white Alps switches or finding them close enough to not matter. But if you pay any kind of close attention, there is unquestionably a noticeable difference between the two.

[jacobolus]

I don't think that White Alps were a cost-cutting measure at all. The same exact tall switch-plates were being used since the Alps SKCC days, and it would've costed a lot to change to short switch-plates, as plastic moulds and all of the other random parts in the switch-plate would be changed; and we all know how "complicated" the switch-plates are. It wouldn't be saving any money to change the switch-plate entirely, so why did Alps change from the tall to short switch-plates with White Alps?

All of the SKCL/SKCM switches (green -> yellow, orange/ivory -> salmon/black/cream, brown -> green (?), locking) switched to using short switchplates at about the same time in ~1989–1990.

I suspect they were adding new production capacity to account for increased keyboard demand, and the old tooling might have also been getting to retirement age. But they could have certainly made new tooling to the old tall switchplate design if they really wanted. Seems at least plausible that it was a cost saving measure. A tiny bit smaller gold-plated (?) metal contact, a bit less copper foil, a slightly smaller piece of plastic, etc. could add up when you multiply by millions of switches. Or maybe they thought they could reuse the slightly smaller switchplate in some other more compact switch design we don’t know about? Who knows...

Around the same time, they were also replacing their PCB-mount switch, SKFL, with these things, which use a similar contact mechanism but ditch the metal lids.

They kept everything from Blue Alps except the tall switch-plates, and we don't even know if the tall switch-plate is what gives Blue Alps their legendary key-feel.

No, they changed the spring and the click leaf as well.

I don’t think the tall switchplate affects the feel, but it does subtly change the sound.

[Hypersphere]

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Omnikey boards with white Alps switches are also great keyboards, and depending on taste I can certainly imagine someone preferring white Alps switches or finding them close enough to not matter. But if you pay any kind of close attention, there is unquestionably a noticeable difference between the two.

I have a Suntouch Jr. with white Alps -- it is one of the nicest Alps-switch keyboards I have ever tried with respect to sound and feel. It also has attractive doubleshot keycaps.

On the other hand, I have a SIIG Minitouch with Monterey blues; the switches themselves may be great, but the overall feel of the board is not as good as that of the Suntouch Jr. with white Alps. Part of the problem with the SIIG is the design of some of the stabilized keys -- especially the Enter key.

[jacobolus]

On the other hand, I have a SIIG Minitouch with Monterey blues; the switches themselves may be great, but the overall feel of the board is not as good as that of the Suntouch Jr. with white Alps. Part of the problem with the SIIG is the design of some of the stabilized keys -- especially the Enter key.

What does clicky SMK switches have to do with a comparison between blue and white Alps?

Blue and white Alps switches are much closer to each-other than either is to SMK switches.

[Blaise170]

What switches are these? Alps logo, discrete switches, no membrane. Never seen before though.

[jacobolus]

Internally, it looks like wiki/Alps_SKFR/SKFS_series


But with a different slider.

[guster11]

Got this Zenith zkb2 in the other day, its my first time with linear alps and they've been growing on me. Probably payed 10-15 more than I should have but the year model lead me to think there was a chance it had green alps, not yellow. But hey the fact it looks like its been in storage for its entire life is a huge plus.

[alh84001]

Looks really nice and lovely keycaps to boot. Those 1.5u numpad bottom row and 2u bottom row modifiers are interesting. I don't know about that BAE though, with 1.5u(?) closing bracket next to it.

[Chyros]

Wait, isn't that a 163-73? I've never seen a ZKB-2 with the tree logo before Oo .

wiki/Zenith_163-73

[guster11]

It is indeed a zkb2 163-40 according to the label, but it is odd that is a 1989 year model so that coincides with the release of the 163-73.

[Chyros]

So it's *ALSO* a ZKB-2. Weird. The plot thickens.

Zenith were extremely poor with listing their model numbers correctly, though xD .

[pr0ximity]

Looks really nice and lovely keycaps to boot. Those 1.5u numpad bottom row and 2u bottom row modifiers are interesting. I don't know about that BAE though, with 1.5u(?) closing bracket next to it.

I have a big closing bracket on my Z-150 (think it's about a 1.25u), oddly it's one of my favorite parts of the layout. There's something very satisfying closing a statement with a forceful press on that larger key.

[guster11]

So it's *ALSO* a ZKB-2. Weird. The plot thickens.

Zenith were extremely poor with listing their model numbers correctly, though xD .

seems so, I could see it being a mislabeled 163-73 but who knows, i'll just go with the label lol. Maybe the xt/at switch cover was replaced with one from the 73?

EDIT: So i wanted to look at the LED keys and I found this awesome surpriuse, green alps! I've never seen this before

[Chyros]

That's been documented before, green Alps lock switches on a yellow Alps board. Fuck knows what they were thinking though xD .

[pr0ximity]

That has to be one of my favorite things about Alps: "fuck knows what they were thinking"

[guster11]

Its quite a shame, the green alps swithces really are signicantly smoother linear switches.

[Blaise170]

Are there any easily accessible Alps keys besides Tai Hao sets and the blanks from SP?

[Hypersphere]

Are there any easily accessible Alps keys besides Tai Hao sets and the blanks from SP?

You can email Barb at Matias to special order printed or blank keycaps, or you can order complete sets from the Matias web site. So far, these are available only in ABS black or white. However, I find that they work well for mods and spacebars. I get doubleshot ABS or dye-sub PBT alphanumeric keycaps from various vintage keyboards.

[jacobolus]

Sure: easily accessible keycaps: Apple Extended Keyboard II, Dell AT101W, Focus 2001, Chicony KB-5181, ...

Personally I recommend the Apple keycaps; if you don’t like the legends, dye the whole lot solid black.

Or if you want something new, Matias sells some.

[Blaise170]

Sorry, I meant new keys. I have like four sets of Apple PBT right now.

[Redmaus]

The problem with apple PBT is the function row. So you can only use it with 60% or any layout that doesn't have a function row really.

[jacobolus]

The best thing about Apple AEK / AEK II keycaps is the F row. The extra height is a big advantage compared to other keyboards, and the rotated switches support that. Every future set of Alps keycaps should copy the idea.

Just build your own keyboard which properly supports those keycaps, or stick to using the original Apple plate and PCB.

(Frankly, these keycaps are still nicer than other options, even if you have to rotate all the F row keycaps 90° to support some other existing keyboard.)

Look how much nicer it is than e.g. Cherry profile where the number row shape is reused for the F row:

[mastermachetier]

Something I have been working on . I got some cream alps I need to replace the rest of the matias switches and I want to look into designing a case for this something or painting this one in the least. I also am waiting to find nice japanese keycaps but i have a set of alps dolch coming in as well.

https://imgur.com/a/L7eOy

[mastermachetier]

Something I have been working on . I got some cream alps I need to replace the rest of the matias switches and I want to look into designing a case for this something or painting this one in the least. I also am waiting to find nice japanese keycaps but i have a set of alps dolch coming in as well.


Full "transplant" album
https://imgur.com/a/L7eOy

Yum Orange

HeXvk1c.jpg (455.3 KiB) Viewed 5973 times

Need to find a case solution

krNBUpW.jpg (992.8 KiB) Viewed 5962 times

[keycap]

Any love for Alps Integrated Domes? It's a stiff linear, but still very nicely designed spring over dome. Buttery smooth too. I was lucky to find some in a vintage calculator with some of the best keycaps that I've ever seen. They're also the only "linear" domes that I'm aware of (not tactile). And they fit in Cherry MX cut-outs.

[seebart]

Any love for Alps Integrated Domes? It's a stiff linear, but still very nicely designed spring over dome. Buttery smooth too. I was lucky to find some in a vintage calculator with some of the best keycaps that I've ever seen. They're also the only "linear" domes that I'm aware of (not tactile). And they fit in Cherry MX cut-outs.

I'd love to try them, not exactly easy to find. Talk about stiff, the Alps semi-integrated domes in this ICL are pretty wild:

wiki/ICL_One_Per_Desk

wiki/Alps_semi-integrated_dome

Alps_semi_integrated_dome_topview.jpg (87.34 KiB) Viewed 5930 times

[Blaise170]

I have yet to get my Japanese keys listed.

[alh84001]

These two are currently on their way to my proxy



I predict a lot of cleaning in my near future . They should arrive in two weeks time. Hopefully, they will be able to carry both.

They are both from Massachusetts, but from different sellers. Looks like folks there like their numpad stickers.

[Blaise170]

Alps SKCC switches also fit in Cherry MX plates.

[keycap]

I'll be picking up an AEK soon. Is there any way to differentiate between the Orange Alps and Salmon Alps version other than m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶ serial number?