webwit - can this be done on a Datahand?

ronaldjeremy · 30 Dec 2011, 18:56

I am on a quest for the perfect left-one-handed typing device that would be used in conjunction with a mouse (specifically a Logitech g700) in the right hand. The goal being never a need to move the right hand off of the mouse. A datahand seems perfect, but before I buy one I need to know if the left hand can be configured as in the attatched picture. My key layout is based on the DVORAK Left-One-Handed layout. The buttons on the mouse would handle chording keys ctrl, shift, alt, win. I can pretty much make unlimited combinations in this manner with autohotkey.

So I just have to ask, is the following possible?

: datahand.gif (22.24 KiB) Viewed 4560 times

webwit · 30 Dec 2011, 19:17

Everything sends a scan code for use with autohotkey, except the X. That's a mode toggle key for the Datahand. You can remap keys with the Datahand Pro II, but not sure if you can reprogram a toggle key, I don't think so.

Some possible solutions:
- The hardcore one: power the Datahand with a teensy controller or something like that and reprogram it to your wishes.
- Datahand did custom programmed chips I think, you could ask them if they (still) do and how much it would cost to get control over that mode toggle key.

P.S. Where's the Z?

ronaldjeremy · 30 Dec 2011, 19:26

I knew you would ask about the z

Statistically z is the least used letter in English, so with only so many buttons the z would be chorded. Also possibly the q in favor of a period or return. x, q, z are least used, in that order.

I do wish there were more buttons -- possibly 8 surrounding per finger insted of four (i.e. N, S, E, W, NE, NW, SE, SW). Although I have never used a Datahand so I am not sure if that would be viable from a usability standpoint.

hoggy · 30 Dec 2011, 19:48

If you are prepared to try a chording keyboard you might want to look at these...
http://www.infogrip.com/product_view.as ... dNumber=12
http://www.handykey.com/

ronaldjeremy · 30 Dec 2011, 21:37

hoggy: I dont see how the BAT or handykey would be preferable to a left Datahand, at least for desktop use. My opinion is it boils down to the sheer number of keys that can be activated quickly and comfortably (before resorting to chording) with a single human hand. With the Datahand you have 25, as opposed to BAT seven or handykey eighteen. The chording logic can all be done in autohotkey as opposed to being embedded in the device.

webwit: Thanks! I pulled the trigger on a Datahand and will see how the experiment goes chording the x and z. Who knows I might prefer the toggle to be there after trying it out. After making that determination I would ask them about buying a custom chip. Hardware hacking with the teensy would probably be above my skill level.

webwit · 30 Dec 2011, 22:32

The toggle is nice to access another layer, but it is of no use for the left unit only. With the right unit, you can toggle to function key/mouse mode and the number layer, and with the one on the left, you toggle back to normal mode. So it's not like caps lock, where you hit it again to toggle back. It's like a light switch which can only go on, and another light switch turns it off.

webwit · 30 Dec 2011, 22:41

ronaldjeremy wrote:I do wish there were more buttons -- possibly 8 surrounding per finger insted of four (i.e. N, S, E, W, NE, NW, SE, SW). Although I have never used a Datahand so I am not sure if that would be viable from a usability standpoint.

The key well used for mousing (left index finger in mouse mode) simulates something like that. If you press between two of the N, E, S, W keys, both of them will go and you go NW, NE, SE or SW. This would not be accurate for typing though. It will probably register one of the keys first before registering them both.

ronaldjeremy · 30 Dec 2011, 22:43

ahh thanks for that detail -- it sounds then that the one on the left is only good for turning the mode off that is not possible to turn on with the left unit. In that case I will send them an email to ask. That is assuming I will be able to get one at all -- I added one to my cart and sucessfully checked out on their site but then I realized the first thing on their homepage says they are out of stock.

ronaldjeremy · 30 Dec 2011, 23:19

webwit wrote:
ronaldjeremy wrote: The key well used for mousing (left index finger in mouse mode) simulates something like that. If you press between two of the N, E, S, W keys, both of them will go and you go NW, NE, SE or SW. This would not be accurate for typing though. It will probably register one of the keys first before registering them both.

Wow I didnt realize it was easy to do for example SE. That means this is possible with autohotkey! In autohotkey you can make it so characters are output on key up rather than key down. That then lets you for example define something like if you hit w and then before releasing w you hit l, z gets output, otherwise w. then a similar rule if l gets hit first before w. That way on the Datahand whenever you go SE with the ring finger it spits out z.

This is actually similar to what I currently have working where I have the spacebar double as a shift key. Its really smooth and I never have accuracy issues.

webwit · 30 Dec 2011, 23:25

Hmm, that might work to get those less used letters!

ronaldjeremy · 29 Jan 2012, 00:22

So I finally got my hands on a PRO II from ebay -- totally stoked!! I have reprogrammed most of the keys, but I cant figure out how to program the DEL key and the TAB key. When I enter Program Mode, then hit W, the three lights on the right hand unit are all flashing. then if I hit the DEL hey to indicate it as the key I want to reprogram, the lights stop flashing and nothing happens. Webwit have you ever been able to reprogram these keys and is there some trick to it?

webwit · 29 Jan 2012, 00:51

I've never tried to program those particular keys.

Icarium · 29 Jan 2012, 01:23

Aww, man. I want a data hand. Can't somebody make an affordable one?

webwit · 29 Jan 2012, 01:28

Icarium wrote:Aww, man. I want a data hand. Can't somebody make an affordable one?

002 · 29 Jan 2012, 01:32

Suddenly I feel like playing Katamari Damacy

Icarium · 29 Jan 2012, 12:33

webwit wrote:
Icarium wrote:Aww, man. I want a data hand. Can't somebody make an affordable one?

That looks fucking awesome.
Where did you get this picture?

webwit · 29 Jan 2012, 12:45

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10077

ronaldjeremy · 29 Jan 2012, 18:58

Icarium wrote:Aww, man. I want a data hand. Can't somebody make an affordable one?

yep I bought it as soon as I saw it $900 used. The sad part is I will only be using half of it. on the bottom of the unit there is a list of a bunch of patents so i suspect that is the reason noone else is making them

Its in really great shape, although I will likely end up taking it apart and trying out the teensy mod to get control of the thumb up switch. that extra switch is crucial in my plan for using it as a one-handed device.

Just from using it for a day the NW chording idea just doesnt feel right. However what does feel much bettter is wellbutton+direction. I have some expermintation to do to figure out the optimal way to chord 80 keys with just the left hand unit. Typing with this thing is so buttery smooth and gentle. My goal is 50wpm with just the left hand, and ill be a happy camper.

ronaldjeremy · 30 Jan 2012, 15:26

Here is the layout I currently have -- If i can get control of that thumb-up key for a third layer it will be complete.

: datahand.gif (43.88 KiB) Viewed 4241 times

Input Nirvana · 31 Mar 2012, 11:39

On GH, gator456 did a Teensy controller and an IBM trackpoint I helped him get, all into a Datahand. He made a wiki article:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title= ... t=gator456

He's a heck of a nice guy and responds to emails if you have some questions. There may be some guidance in there for you