(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[lot_lizard]

A combination of these approaches would likely worked well? If we could find some ready made (free) box like E_29 suggested, and custom form fit something to slide in it (ala Apple) like Techno suggests... It's probably the golden approach for cheap and secure. I would then wrap each ready made box with postal paper to conceal its dedicated USPS use.

I have no idea their dimensions, but makes sense on the surface if something could be procured with some research. The more we save with semantics like packaging, the cheaper the result in the end.

If someone wants to run with that, I would appreciate... One less thing to juggle, and can tighten our project window. Appreciate you bringing up @Techno

[Techno Trousers]

Well, I guess we really have two separate needs:

-shipping parts
-shipping assembled inserts
-storing keyboards

I was jumping right to #3, but for 1 and 2 I'd think typical shipping with packing peanuts should be sufficient.

I'm going to deconstruct and measure my Unicomp box this weekend, and I'll post diagrams and measurements for those who want to make their own.

[lot_lizard]

I would be happy to research costs for creating boxes for storing full size and SSKs. If we can produce something cheap that had value after shipping, why not right.

For just assembly orders, we could use the same box with marginal additional padding. Uniformty is key for bulk shipping, since consistent shapes typically support bricked stacking, and create a more sound structure when paletted. This will be key for our overseas friends. It will always be cheaper to ship 4 keyboards in 4 separate packages from Germany to <insertEUCountryHere> than shipping one giant box with 4 boards from the states.

Also... For packing peanuts, there is a brilliant approach of putting them in "ziploc" bags (credit the wife). Keeps the mess minimal, and keeps things from shifting. Was planning on using that concept regardless of our boxing strategy.

Moral... Die-cutting a useful box adds nickels to the overall cost in bulk. If you come up with measurements (have something to accommodate full size and SSKs separately), I will run down the cost impact.

[fohat]

For packing peanuts, there is a brilliant approach of putting them in "ziploc" bags (credit the wife). Keeps the mess minimal, and keeps things from shifting.

Styrofoam egg cartons will crush if empty but if you pour peanuts into them they will keep their shape under pressure.
Good end block spacers.

[lot_lizard]

I reached out to Unicomp about the cost for their box in bulk. Looks like they would need a minimum of 250 @ $2.50 a piece plus freight (so 3-3.50 each is a guess). I think 250 is going to be a stretch for us. I have a place that manufactures corrugated boxes down the road a bit. I will reach out to them to get an idea of minimums and pricing to produce something similar.

I wouldn't mind having several spares for storage boxes myself, but if we were shipping them separately as spare storage, you probably need a 4-5 minimum to send bound as full sheets (not pre-folding), and would be more in the 6-8 each range after shipping

[Techno Trousers]

Thanks, lizard! Strangely, I didn't even consider that Unicomp would sell them, but why wouldn't they? I agree that 250 doesn't seem doable.

[andrewjoy]

I wonder if good old unicomp would do an offer on blank model M cases with a box ? You think that would bring it down some for all the full sized folks !

[lot_lizard]

Quick Update:

• The plates are ready to pick up this afternoon (anxious to see the stainless versions). Will post pictures sometime within the next day of their "raw" form.
• I went back and checked, and I have one of the Unicomp boxes that Techno posted. I arranged a meeting with our corrugated box business tomorrow (they are sending a salesman to visit me), and will give him the box to see if we can make a reasonable copy, and hopefully improve a couple of spots that I would call weak points in the design.
• I have created a public GitHub repository that everything will eventually be published to: https://github.com/lot-lizard/Model-MF
  
  Very little there now, but expect a substantial amount of code there as we harden "final" versions of everything and commence the group buy

[Techno Trousers]

Oh, it's on now!!

[alh84001]

lot_lizzard is simply unstoppable

[E TwentyNine]

[*]I have created a public GitHub repository that everything will eventually be published to: https://github.com/lot-lizard/Model-MF

"Refactoring" the Model M. You must be a programmer.

[giokkk]

lot_lizzard is simply unstoppable

.. nothing can stop him!

[lot_lizard]

"Refactoring" the Model M. You must be a programmer.

Busted!!! At least in a former life. I was being so careful too

For the other comments... You guys crack me up.

I picked up the plates, test fit the full size (101-key/FEXT), and they are DELICIOUS. The thicker steel is highly apparent, but still nestles in our shell dimensions well. Our metal working friends are taking pride in it because of the complexity (which is good). They are non-keyboard brutes wanting to order a couple assembled units for giggles.

We are officially ready to put a bow on the plates minus the stabilizer clip testing throughout the board (thanks @giokkk for the PM images of the ISO clips), and I will set the function row height back to what I had previously (the .5mm adjustment was unnecessary). Pics to follow tomorrow/Saturday sometime after I get everything assembled.

It's a big step... I'm officially pleased with what I consider the hard part. Several additional aspects yet to prove and coordinate, but all are being actively worked by a team (thanks again WCass)... it's falling into place nicely. Fun little journey.

EDIT: this time we break the industrial cases out for the photos... It's time

[webwit]

random rant: What is it with all the embedded youtube videos that can't be expanded to full-screen? Is it an intentionally made as opt-in just for the people to go to youtube site and register a page view? If that's the case, I'm never opening an embedded youtube video in a new tab again.

I fixed that, their api changed.

[002]

I know I'm super late but I've finally had the time to skim through this thread and see what it's all about...what a fantastic project. Props to you, lot_lizard for your exceptional attention to detail and also for being so open and involving. I need to keep an eye out for an SSK now

[giokkk]

"Refactoring" the Model M. You must be a programmer.

Busted!!! At least in a former life. I was being so careful too

For the other comments... You guys crack me up.

I picked up the plates, test fit the full size (101-key/FEXT), and they are DELICIOUS. The thicker steel is highly apparent, but still nestles in our shell dimensions well. Our metal working friends are taking pride in it because of the complexity (which is good). They are non-keyboard brutes wanting to order a couple assembled units for giggles.

We are officially ready to put a bow on the plates minus the stabilizer clip testing throughout the board (thanks @giokkk for the PM images of the ISO clips), and I will set the function row height back to what I had previously (the .5mm adjustment was unnecessary). Pics to follow tomorrow/Saturday sometime after I get everything assembled.

It's a big step... I'm officially pleased with what I consider the hard part. Several additional aspects yet to prove and coordinate, but all are being actively worked by a team (thanks again WCass)... it's falling into place nicely. Fun little journey.

EDIT: this time we break the industrial cases out for the photos... It's time

We in the forum are all proud for your fantastic project lot_lizard (AKA lot "The Unstoppable" as ahl84001 suggested ) and we have to thank you all the team (wcass, idollar, Cindy and the others guys).
It 's amazing how much progress has been made in such a short time and the formidable solutions found.

For sure it will be Deskthority project of the year.

And yes, the plate is the tough part, both for project and molding.

We are eager to see the pictures!!

[XMIT]

I hope that next up is a 60% project: a slim 60% case for Model M "chop" projects, and maybe a 60% Model F type PCB.

[Techno Trousers]

Well, I'm not interested in 60% keyboards myself, but wouldn't it make more sense to get into ellipse's replica Kishsaver round 2 if you want one of those?

[XMIT]

ellipse's project is great for folks who are willing to pay lots of money to get a nice keyboard and call it a day.

It's less great for folks like me who want to pick and choose parts, do a bunch of their own work, etc.

I may just CAD up my own case design for a 60% Model M chop or build something out of wood or acrylic. It would be kind of fun to have a small Model M board.

[lot_lizard]

I hope that next up is a 60% project: a slim 60% case for Model M "chop" projects, and maybe a 60% Model F type PCB.

In Phase 2, I think we offer several layout options, sizes, etc. BUT... it's going to be a completely different animal than what we are doing now. When we can design our own cases (or floating stands with case-less designs), flat plates, Cherry adapters, etc... We can really do anything we like, and make cost effective decisions.

Producing this Phase 1 drop-in is expensive because of the tooling required, and having to work in the confines of the existing M, etc.

Phase 2 will be improving several aspects of the legacy design while honoring the "spirit" of the switch. It won't be an exact replica. Also, the end result of an entire board will be cheaper (including the housing), but with better materials and options.

We will never make another curved plate project after Phase 1 (at least that I would actively participate in)'. Even if you couldn't afford the switches at the moment, and didn't currently have access to a donor board... I would at minimum pick up the parts needed to do so if you thought you might have interest later since we really are running this whole thing with a zero profit goal (you could easily sell the kit later to recover costs).

Phase 1 is to prove to myself that Phase 2 (my actual goal) is not completely insane

[lot_lizard]

Let the second battle COMMENCE!!! 30 F122's as promised. Thanks again Cindy.

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[Techno Trousers]

Wow, so few of the space bars survived the test of time. I guess being the largest key, they'd be most likely to get knocked off and lost when a keyboard is abused.

[elecplus]

Those got there quickly!

[seebart]

Obviously quite well packed.

[giokkk]

A battleship army!

[gianni]

Considering that the sound of the bucking spring comes from (I suppose), the spring impacting the inside of the cavity of the stem, is there a way to make it more silent? I know about the dental floss mod, I was just thinking of some kind of teflon that could make the impact more silent?

[lot_lizard]

There are a few techniques we have been playing with that all have small incremental improvements. Eventually with a combination of several, and should be able to have meaningful impact. The trick is to not alter the mechanics or feel.

To your point about Teflon, I will be soaking the springs and barrels in a PTFE bath after cleaning (mainly for smoothness, but also it eliminate any "scratchy" sounds). Was recommended by ohaimark / XMIT in another thread. I tried, it is works quite well.

I have a list of dates for the F122's that I will publish sometime today if "birthday boards" are interesting to anyone. All the boards will be disassembled into salvageable parts. So backplates would be sold separately from PCB's, top plates, badges, etc. I am not asking specific prices for anything. If interested in something, PM me with what you want to offer. Unless it is COMPLETELY ridiculous, it will be accepted. I want the parts going to homes versus salvage (where everything goes that isn't claimed). I will likely open a thread up in the marketplace with all of these parts outlined.

I'm about 1/4 through the new shipment so far, and plan to start drinking heavily very soon

[Techno Trousers]

To your point about Teflon, I will be soaking the springs and barrels in a PTFE bath after cleaning (mainly for smoothness, but also it eliminate any "scratchy" sounds). Was recommended by ohaimark / XMIT in another thread. I tried, it is works quite well.

Did you decide against the new stainless springs for phase 1, or are you still cleaning and lubing these for future use?

[fohat]

I have a list of dates for the F122's that I will publish sometime today if "birthday boards" are interesting to anyone.

First dibs on June 14 - I hope Donald Trump is not lurking here to out-bid me.

[lot_lizard]

Did you decide against the new stainless springs for phase 1, or are you still cleaning and lubing these for future use?

The current plan is to do both actually, giving a person the choice of either just the original... or the original with a secondary stainless set. The cost is fairly minimal, and I think it is something that many would like the option to try. The stainless will also be PTFE (Teflon) coated/soaked.

First dibs on June 14 - I hope Donald Trump is not lurking here to out-bid me.

Close... but not quite. I have a June 18 from '85. And... there is no outbidding. First come first serve when I list the parts. Once low-ball offer is accepted, it is accepted. Eventually, I would likely just bulk auction the spares on eBay, but those are the prices out of the gate as well.