(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[vsev]

In Phase 2, I think we offer several layout options, sizes, etc. BUT... it's going to be a completely different animal than what we are doing now. When we can design our own cases (or floating stands with case-less designs), flat plates, Cherry adapters, etc... We can really do anything we like, and make cost effective decisions.

Phase 1 is to prove to myself that Phase 2 (my actual goal) is not completely insane

Last night I dreamed I was typing on an Cherry 1800 layout Model F, just like this, by lurking quickly to your new posts in here in between few summer destinations..
Thanks again for all the admirable work lot_lizard !

[lot_lizard]

Got about 4/5 through the second haul, and going to take a rest for the weekend. The stainless steel plate processing has taken an obvious pause to get these parts boards sorted out, but I need them orderly or I will loose my mind looking over at the chaos

Started a Marketplace thread to keep the part requested separate from here. for-sale-f55/model-mf-the-haul-parts-fr ... 14377.html

I still need to add parts from the Bigfoot, XT, and 3178 (Blue Switch)'s, but a start

[Vizir]

i'd like a solenoid or two from the blue switch keyboards, depending on price and shipping to the US.

[drevyek]

Does the xwhatsit support the solenoids? And would the M have enough space inside for a solenoid? I don't really have a idea on the dimensions of the thing, versus the space we have available in the case.

[lot_lizard]

i'd like a solenoid or two from the blue switch keyboards, depending on price and shipping to the US.

I haven't actually added them to the list yet (or if I even will for Phase 1), but will put you down Vizir if/when we do. I am using them for research at the moment. They ALMOST fit very well inside an SSK case (plenty in the full size). Going to test a few combinations with them as we move forward, but some of them will eventually be for sale.

Does the xwhatsit support the solenoids?

It does, but requires secondary controller specifically added for just the solenoid that is powered from the aux. header pins of the xWhatsit.

[andrewjoy]

I could go for a solenoid

[lot_lizard]

Victory is MINE!!!

49 boards later (1 was an M). We have 30 pounds (13.6 kg) of barrels and switches. I'll count them another day, but rough math says ~5400 switches (enough to do ~60 boards if ~90 keys is the average). Still need to clean and process, but that is in the future.

I took a half day to get this part of life over... You fuckers owe me a beer!!!

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[Techno Trousers]

Woohoo! What a ton of work. I can completely understand why there will be only one round of phase 1!

[elecplus]

Looks like I will be in Atlanta on Weds morning. We will see if I can scrounge more.

[drevyek]

Victory is MINE!!!

49 boards later (1 was an M). We have 30 pounds (13.6 kg) of barrels and switches. I'll count them another day, but rough math says ~5400 switches (enough to do ~60 boards if ~90 keys is the average). Still need to clean and process, but that is in the future.

I took a half day to get this part of life over... You fuckers owe me a beer!!!

image.jpeg

Wow!!
I just tore down my XT last night for the switches, and I feel for you. What kind of adhesive were they using on the foam, and what kind of cancer is it going to give me?

Excited to see so much progress, so quickly. This is actually happening!

[fohat]

What kind of adhesive were they using on the foam,

There is no adhesive on the foam. The smooth skin just melds into the surface it touches, and the foam disintegrates into a horrible sticky gritty mess.

Fortunately it is partially water-soluble, so a good soak will allow you to scrub it off easily.

[elecplus]

I just called my guy in Atlanta to confirm they will be ready for me tomorrow, including having a couple more pallets of keyboards down for me to dig through. I explained I really need more Model Fs, because they are for a production run, and they need more keyboards. Silence on the other end. Finally he says Production run? They have not made these since the 80s. Correct, I say. We are using the barrels, flippers, and springs from the Fs to remodel Ms. He knows his IBM keyboards quite well, and he is very perplexed. He can change firmware and keycaps to make 1 terminal board into another, but it never occurred to him that people would want to turn an M into an F. Why not just buy an F? he asks. We are, but we are modifying them. They are going into M cases. More dead silence. Maybe I should show him this thread

[Techno Trousers]

it never occurred to him that people would want to turn an M into an F. Why not just buy an F? he asks. We are, but we are modifying them. They are going into M cases. More dead silence. Maybe I should show him this thread

So funny. I think the best way to explain it is we're making Model F keyboards in Model M layouts, since IBM never did that for us!

[lot_lizard]

We are quirky creatures with even quirkier desires. You should have been in the room when I was informing my wife why portions of the house would resemble a junk yard for multiple days. I'm pretty sure her eyes are still glazed over from when I explained the project itself.

Thanks Cindy for continuing to drive the search.

[Vizir]

We are quirky creatures with even quirkier desires. You should have been in the room when I was informing my wife why portions of the house would resemble a junk yard for multiple days. I'm pretty sure her eyes are still glazed over from when I explained the project itself.

hahahaha. sounds like what happens at my house!

[fohat]

Maybe I should show him this thread

Showing him a thread (any thread) would probably cause him to raise his prices.

[elecplus]

It might, but you would also gain a huge amount of expertise. It might be a different kind of expertise though. He knows exactly what keyboard works with each terminal. But he has no clue what makes them wanted by you guys. He has some very rare keyboards he is willing to selll now, so that will be a new thread tomorrow.

[elecplus]

One question I do have...why Model M cases? They break and are flimsy compared to most F cases. Like the 4704 cases or something.

[Vizir]

Very rare?! Any clues?

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[elecplus]

70s and early 80s is all he would tell me. Potato pics and things in new list tomorrow.

[Vizir]

Can't wait!

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[lot_lizard]

One question I do have...why Model M cases? They break and are flimsy compared to most F cases. Like the 4704 cases or something.

It's all really about the key layout, with availability and appearance being strong perks. Most of us following the thread actively would likely agree it's the best layout ever produced (at least for a bucking spring)

[elecplus]

Most of us following the thread actively would likely agree it's the best layout ever produced (at least for a bucking spring)

So what layout would be an improvement over an M or SSK, buckling spring or not?

[lot_lizard]

So what layout would be an improvement over an M or SSK, buckling spring or not?

That would be a debate that could go on for days. 60/65% and TKL (like the SSK) would likely lead the votes with no clear winner.

[Vizir]

Why not an ergonomic layout?

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[E TwentyNine]

Most of us following the thread actively would likely agree it's the best layout ever produced (at least for a bucking spring)

So what layout would be an improvement over an M or SSK, buckling spring or not?

The SSK layout is the ultimate configuration. There is none higher.

I'm certain there is absolutely no debate on this.

maybe

[elecplus]

Ok, I understand that everyone has their preferences Just please don't ask me to go scrounge 100 NEC blue ovals keyboards, because I doubt that many will ever show up. I am still on the hunt for 62s and 77s. Then my hunting days might be complete, until someone comes up with the next unobtanium.

[drevyek]

Most of us following the thread actively would likely agree it's the best layout ever produced (at least for a bucking spring)

So what layout would be an improvement over an M or SSK, buckling spring or not?

The SSK layout is the ultimate configuration. There is none higher.

I'm certain there is absolutely no debate on this.

maybe

Well...

Everyone has a preference. I love the F-row-less TKL, or the full size. Numpads are just too good for plugging in numbers quickly.

Round 2 is going to have quite the debate on form factor!

[fohat]

why Model M cases? They break and are flimsy compared to most F cases. Like the 4704 cases or something.

It's all really about the key layout, with availability and appearance being strong perks. Most of us following the thread actively would likely agree it's the best layout ever produced

Don't you have that backwards, Cindy?

Model F plastic is brittle and breaks easily, and also has a "skin" layer that can be chipped or abraded to reveal a shiny core layer.
Model M is PVC and while softer is considerably tougher, and does not have layers.

And the Model M set the standard for layout which is still considered "de rigueur" to this day.
The only area of debate is between full-size and SSK variants.

And the final phase of this project is M and SSK cases in metal.

[lot_lizard]

Why not an ergonomic layout?

Actually some Buckling Spring Dox would be fun. This is why Phase 2 will be focused on getting flat plate buckling springs to work. It will... I have faith. And it opens up "limitless" cheap layout possibilities for the switch.