(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

E TwentyNine · 20 Sep 2016, 16:58

I sorta hope you're not dismantling the AT. I'm guessing some might prefer that format over an SSK, and it might go to a good home.

Of course the XT layout is the devil's hellspawn and deserves to be cast to the four winds.

fohat · 20 Sep 2016, 17:03

E TwentyNine wrote: ↑
I sorta hope you're not dismantling the AT.

Yes, definitely don't waste a precious AT.

lot_lizard · 20 Sep 2016, 17:08

E TwentyNine wrote: ↑I sorta hope you're not dismantling the AT. I'm guessing some might prefer that format over an SSK, and it might go to a good home.

Your hopes are shared by me as well... I have a couple already, and planned on downsizing to one. Eventually when all this settles down a bit, I am going to sell several things off from my collection in a separate Marketplace thread (nothing to do with this project). It will go with the spare at that time.

The upside, it's value alone even at a "DT friendly rate" will be more than I paid for all of this. So consider these XT's as donations to the cause. I will pull the caps to sell off as sets (andrewjoy already mentioned wanting a "few"), and any other parts will drive down our switch prices even a bit more. Coming together nicely.

Ir0n · 20 Sep 2016, 18:59

Good lord where do you find so many XT and AT boards? I've been looking for a cheap XT for my IBM 5150, but I'm a cheap bastard.

Also if you plan on gutting that AT do you plan on selling the guts? The LED bored is dead in mine :S (I broke it)..

Keep up the hard work!

fohat · 20 Sep 2016, 19:47

Ir0n wrote: ↑
Good lord where do you find so many XT and AT boards? I've been looking for a cheap XT for my IBM 5150, but I'm a cheap bastard.

XT boards are very common but the $30-$35 days are long gone - they cost twice that now.

AT boards have become quite rare in the last couple of years.

Ir0n · 20 Sep 2016, 20:38

fohat wrote: ↑
Ir0n wrote: ↑
Good lord where do you find so many XT and AT boards? I've been looking for a cheap XT for my IBM 5150, but I'm a cheap bastard.
XT boards are very common but the $30-$35 days are long gone - they cost twice that now.

AT boards have become quite rare in the last couple of years.

I know, it makes me sad. I got my AT really cheap so I was lucky, but it has ruined MX switches for me haha.

It's why I get so hyped for these types of projects. I get to have my sweet capacitive buckling spring in modern layouts. <3

Wingpad · 21 Sep 2016, 05:00

Just wanted to say this is really exciting work you're doing

I was talking about making a capacitive PCB for an SSK and someone referred me to this thread and I was blown away by how much progress has been made.

BinaryHalibut · 21 Sep 2016, 06:00

fohat wrote: ↑ XT boards are very common but the $30-$35 days are long gone - they cost twice that now.

Not if you belieeeeeeeeeeeeve

POTV · 21 Sep 2016, 16:40

@alh84001 - regarding ISO and ANSI, you're quite right. What I ment, was that there perhaps were some limitations regarding the variations in the final kits. And if so, I might be abel to adjust to ANSI...

E TwentyNine · 21 Sep 2016, 16:52

POTV wrote: ↑@alh84001 - regarding ISO and ANSI, you're quite right. What I ment, was that there perhaps were some limitations regarding the variations in the final kits. And if so, I might be abel to adjust to ANSI...

No limitation.

POTV · 21 Sep 2016, 17:16

@E TwentyNine - I'm really impressed of the ambitions, that you good people are showing!

E TwentyNine · 21 Sep 2016, 17:24

POTV wrote: ↑@E TwentyNine - I'm really impressed of the ambitions, that you good people are showing!

I'm just an opinionated enthusiastic spectator, just as impressed by those who put the wheels in motion and got this beast rolling.

lot_lizard · 21 Sep 2016, 18:37

Played a little bit last night with branding. The logo won't be quite as extruded in the end with a little more polish, but I think we are ready to break out the more expensive filament and start producing these in bulk (say 50). I want the printer available for other needs later should they arise. Production (very limited scale) officially commences!!!

: image.jpeg (359.2 KiB) Viewed 5350 times

: Not sure I ever showed the updates after the angling improvements; image.jpeg (343.29 KiB) Viewed 5350 times

Techno Trousers · 21 Sep 2016, 18:54

Oh, man, that logo looks awesome!

snoopy · 21 Sep 2016, 19:35

good job! very nice!

Techno Trousers · 21 Sep 2016, 19:54

I forgot to ask: we're doing both USB-B and Type C. Have you prototyped the port blank for the Type C connector? I'd like to see a picture of that, if you have it.

lot_lizard · 21 Sep 2016, 20:37

Techno Trousers wrote: ↑I forgot to ask: we're doing both USB-B and Type C. Have you prototyped the port blank for the Type C connector? I'd like to see a picture of that, if you have it.

I haven't... Phosphorglow is helping us out by soldering the remaining daughter boards together. Once I get those back, I'll mock it up. I did refactor the openSCAD source so the "blank" is a template module that the USB ports are created inside of. I'm currently printing the USB-B in copolyester (PET), and will update the Git repo once I see it is successful.

lot_lizard · 22 Sep 2016, 21:06

Got the Selectric caps in and couldn't resist a some photos (sorry Webwit for hijacking storage). The legends are SO bold and crisp (no fuzz). They really are gorgeous in person. There are a few things I would change about them, but NOT much. Hid most of the pics in spoilers to avoid bombarding.

I really do have to call out the packaging. He sent me a few caps before in these little tubes, but never a production like this. You can tell he takes pride in his craft.

Packaging

: IMG_8768.jpg (1.19 MiB) Viewed 5165 times

Spoiler:

Installed Case-less

: IMG_8776.jpg (1.6 MiB) Viewed 5165 times

Spoiler:

Installed with Indy Shell

: IMG_8781.jpg (1.47 MiB) Viewed 5165 times

Spoiler:

Because we can

: IMG_8789.jpg (1.1 MiB) Viewed 5165 times

Spoiler:

E TwentyNine · 22 Sep 2016, 21:18

Pretty sweet. Not sure I'm digging on the F keys, think the legends should be like the numerics.

But it looks VINTAGE. It LOOKS like it's higher quality construction, just from the fonts. Yeah that's weird and unsubstantiated, but the whole board looks sturdier and from a time long past.

Regarding the naked look, if you made a top cover plate available out of metal (no winkey holes, no square holes keyed to the case, on barrel mount holes), that might be a good look for those that want to go caseless. Are there any top plates available today that don't have the cutouts for the winkeys?

alh84001 · 22 Sep 2016, 21:31

lot_lizard wrote: ↑

Beautiful. As E said, F keys might be bigger, but that's a minor complaint.

What I bemoan more is Unicomp's pebble color, that is visibly different than original. Pearl is too, but to a lesser degree, and it's bearable.

Khers · 22 Sep 2016, 21:39

Echoing what E29 and alh wrote, they look great! Neither I am sold on the F-keys, but I'm not entirely sure what it is I crave. The fact that they are centered like the rest of the set, certainly helps their appeal though.

Having seen your photos of the products, I for one wouldn't hesitate joining the side-GB though. That said, I have seriously considered at twice the price on multiple occasions. ...and I'm a little crazy, as Wodan's confirmed today

snoopy · 22 Sep 2016, 22:13

not really my taste, but the printing quality looks really good!

Ir0n · 22 Sep 2016, 22:18

They look sweet

I'm just glad someone is finally making a custom set for BS we need more of them!

Random question though. Do you know if the legends will last as long as the Model F or M legends? I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject.

Wodan · 22 Sep 2016, 22:27

Please tell me there will be a J-return key

Those caps are just amazing, like them very much. I also agreed that F-row legends need some fine tuning

E TwentyNine · 22 Sep 2016, 22:44

This is what I had in mind for the function keys:

lot_lizard · 22 Sep 2016, 23:16

E TwentyNine wrote: ↑But it looks VINTAGE. It LOOKS like it's higher quality construction, just from the fonts. Yeah that's weird and unsubstantiated, but the whole board looks sturdier and from a time long past.

This really sums it up nicely. I should put up against a beamspring cap so we can see a better picture. Obviously they are spherical (cupped) and these aren't so much, but it does just look more substantial in front of you. Odd but pleasing effect.

E TwentyNine wrote: ↑Pretty sweet. Not sure I'm digging on the F keys, think the legends should be like the numerics.

I agree with you and everyone that echoed. These are my suggestions

COMPLETELY agree on the F row. It should be 50%(ish) larger on the font. It just looks "off" with everything else being so substantial
Eliminate front side printing all together (it detracts). Spherical caps manage to tuck it way nicely. These are a little "in your face"
Anything 1u shouldn't have more than 3 characters (a couple could get away with 4, but they are the minority)... PRINT/SCRN should be PRT/SCRN, etc.
Slight alignment issues in multiple spots (we are picky fuckers after all)
Minus symbol in the numeric row should be less heavy (note I realized shortly after pictures it was reversed ). Feel like I won a prize that no one called me out on it
Greater than and Less than symbols should be 20% smaller (visually they are just heavy)
Maybe a few other things my anal a$$ hasn't quite decided
As others have mentioned, the PBT colors need some work, but we are victim of Unicomp at the moment. For an Indy case, I actually like this color scheme (or something close). For the generic "white/ivory" IBM shell... something WAY more white would be desirable

Small things, but could be tightened up nicely

Ir0n wrote: ↑Random question though. Do you know if the legends will last as long as the Model F or M legends? I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject.

There are two basic types of dye-sub (dye sublimation) that are "common". A direct transfer for sublimated dye gas via a heated press (or vacuum), and thermal printers. Our friend is using the heated vacuum variety like we speculate the original caps would have been (thermal printing wasn't as prevalent). Regardless... you are "injecting" the dye into the cap versus just printing on top of. The durability and quality are really more products of the technique than the technology. Either way in unskilled hands produces bad results. I really don't feel like cutting into one of these caps, but might with something else he sent me to see how permeable his dye was. IBM's is really very thin. I cut into the one to understand how much my "crayon roasting" technique really did by comparison. I was about 50% deeper than IBM's dye-sub. Moral... they should wear well regardless unless he really did something silly. It is more about the clarity that makes this difficult.

Wodan wrote: ↑Please tell me there will be a J-return key

Find a blank, and there will be one

Hypersphere · 22 Sep 2016, 23:24

lot_lizard: Caps are looking good. What is the font? The "G" has the Helvetica-like descender, but the "R" does not have the rounded Helvetica-like descender.

Regarding color symmetry, any chance of options such as "pebbble" colored Backquote/Tilde and Backslash/Pipe keys to match the mods?

Vizir · 22 Sep 2016, 23:27

Wow. I'm in for the GB. The larger fonts on the F keys or not. Would like the larger font tho. Amazing work!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

E TwentyNine · 22 Sep 2016, 23:39

lot_lizard wrote: ↑(we are picky fuckers after all)

I feel like this should be written somewhere hidden inside every MF.

fohat · 22 Sep 2016, 23:46

lot_lizard wrote: ↑
Minus symbol in the numeric row should be less heavy

Minus (Dash) Underline legends are often clumsy for some reason. Unfortunate that that they have to be upside-down from how they sit in reality ....

The Accent portion of the Tilde key looks too big, Accent is a smaller thing than single quote in real life and less wide horizontally than Tilde.