(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[Phenix]

Awesome legends, I really like that they are so big.

Is thInternational/German layout support (complete with "symbols) planned?
Or if that isnt possible may just bigger numbers without symbols be an option?

[Techno Trousers]

I agree with everything already said. With those improvements, I'm most definitely in for an SSK Selectric set with brilliant white alphas and grey mods.

[lot_lizard]

What is the font? The "G" has the Helvetica-like descender, but the "R" does not have the rounded Helvetica-like descender.

He made it!!!! Someone finally stepped up and did it. It is "Selectric". If you break out your Selectric and compare (I'll try to later), or at least Google... you'll see. He made the font for it and is exactly why I am AMPED about it. No more Gorton Gumbo SA hack nonsense.

Regarding color symmetry, any chance of options such as "pebbble" colored Backquote/Tilde and Backslash/Pipe keys to match the mods?

We can literally do anything we want as long as there is a blank for it. He is a very bright person, and modeled after the M. The M uses that same disproportional coloring if you break your boards out. I have always found it odd as well, but I understand why. They use "pearl" for anything that is technically a character, regardless of where it is in the key flow (control/function characters are "pebble").

Is thInternational/German layout support (complete with "symbols) planned?
Or if that isnt possible may just bigger numbers without symbols be an option?

He hasn't made these international fonts (what you see in the original posts is what is available thus far). If we want more, it could certainly be done. Just need the fonts. If you can help me point out what is missing? Unfortunately I am not in tuned with all the language variants (dumb yank).


Adding the following so you could appreciate the font weight and detail. The left from an SSK, right is the from the Selectric set. It really is impressive in person (random dot on the key is "dust")

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[E TwentyNine]

They use "pearl" for anything that is technically a character, regardless of where it is in the key flow (control/function characters are "pebble").

It is so IBM of them, but I believe their reasoning was that character keys could potentially get swapped around, so the color had to be consistent. The only 1u in that bucket is the backslash on an ANSI, which is colored consistently with the backslash on an ISO.

[Hypersphere]

Some time ago I was able to get Unicomp to make some out-of-formula caps for me, such as a Pebble Backslash and a 1.00x green cap with a Return symbol on it.

I use the traditional Backslash key as my Backspace, and so I just use a blank Pebble key for this.

I should have read the thread more carefully. I actually have a couple sets of IBM Selectric caps tucked away in a drawer that I could have consulted for the font.

@lot_lizard: Keep up the marvelous work! These projects are coming together splendidly, and they will continue to benefit the keyboard enthusiast community for many years to come.

[lot_lizard]

I heard back from our corrugated friends. I think I am going to start a poll to understand what people are wanting/willing to pay for quality boxes for shipping and storage. Keep in mind these are much better than the random ways we ship and store keyboards, but I am not sure how much value people put into that. If shipping is the only concern of our current project, we would go with the "el-cheapo box"

As a reminder, this is the boxing method that was designed for us. The side caps are reversible so that it would secure both the full-size and SSK. There would be plank foam custom cut and added to the appropriate spots to fully cradle everything.



Additional pics

Spoiler:

[lot_lizard]

Poll created... vote please.

Also... I have good news from Cindy. We are getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 35+ additional F122's from her friend (could be quite a bit more). These are salvage boards similar to the ones before. I believe Cindy is going to have them sent to her this time, and she will removing switches on our behalf (saves us quite a bit in shipping).

If this comes through... we will have enough switches for 100+ boards (total across all our salvaging). Getting serious at this point!!!

EDIT: I should also mention. For the custom keyboard box we have been talking about (the Premium option in the poll), we would OWN the die outright. So anything we do in the future would be about 1/3 the price to reuse the die and make more of these containers. It is a very important point I failed to mention previously

[regack]

Poll created... vote please.

EDIT: I should also mention. For the custom keyboard box we have been talking about (the Premium option in the poll), we would OWN the die outright. So anything we do in the future would be about 1/3 the price to reuse the die and make more of these containers. It is a very important point I failed to mention previously

I voted Premium before your edit, so it's nice to know there's an additional future benefit, but I was just curious if that's the primary difference between Premium and Reasonable.

[lot_lizard]

I voted Premium before your edit, so it's nice to know there's an additional future benefit, but I was just curious if that's the primary difference between Premium and Reasonable.

The box pictured would be fitted for our specific needs (heavy gauge cardboard, custom foam inserts, etc). So it will hold the boards nicely in transit and in storage. I can find boxes in bulk in the realm of similar sizing, but the supporting packaging (foam, inserts, peanuts, etc) would be less ideal. Would open differently, etc. Think of Reasonable as what we do today shipping boards around. We could go really cheap on the sub-3 dollar option, but it is essentially a disposable solution once you open it.

[E TwentyNine]

Does this box only come into play if you're ordering a complete kit with case? If you just want the internals, do they get shipped in this box as well?

[lot_lizard]

Does this box only come into play if you're ordering a complete kit with case? If you just want the internals, do they get shipped in this box as well?

The kit would ship in this. For the foam inserts that hold the plates, I plan on perforating them so you can pull out the part holding the plates securely to leave the part that would hold the case securely. At least that is the initial idea. Then ship snail mail to keep costs down. Should be similar to USPS flat rate shipping in the end (packaging + shipping)

[Techno Trousers]

Hmm. The "reasonable" choice has a lot more votes than I expected. Are people really so anxious to save $2 on a $150 project like this? These extra durable boxes are custom designed and like nothing else you'll find out there. It seems well worth an extra couple of bucks for that, especially if that price premium will disappear for phase 2+ shipments.

Then again, I actually started looking into hand cutting my own versions out of corrugated plastic, in case the custom box idea fell through. Now that would be pricey (but super cool).

[lot_lizard]

Thanks everyone for voting. I think it is safe to call at this point. It is a very nice box, and sure you will enjoy. I will finish working out the small other items related (plastic wrapper, foam inserts, etc). I will let our box friends know that we accepted.

We are inching closer. I did get the Full-size assembled (FINALLY), and everything is working as expected. The feel is very similar to the SSK. I will try to get some pictures taken this weekend

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[seebart]

This is just another amazing detail, everytime I browse this thread I'm blown away. Great work lot_lizard! Now we know what a crafty l̶i̶z̶a̶r̶d̶ wizard you are!

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[Techno Trousers]

I'm starting to think he's a wizard lizard.

Lizard, have you ever owned a Filco keyboard? The reason I ask is they come with these really sweet hard and transparent molded plastic covers, that cover the whole keyboard and have little indentations between each key. I think they may have been vacuum formed? What I loved about that was I could leave it on the keyboard when it wasn't in use, and it acted as a dust blocker (and accident preventer). Since you seem to be in the industrial biz, do you have access to equipment and have the expertise to make something like that? Not that it has to be part of phase 1, but I would love one of those for each of my MF keyboards.

Edit: Here's a picture of what I'm talking about

[E TwentyNine]

The reason I ask is they come with these really sweet hard and transparent molded plastic covers, that cover the whole keyboard and have little indentations between each key.

Depending on your definition of "hard", these existed for M's back in the day, and Unicomp still sells one:

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CVR

Don't know if they have an SSK one or how cleanly a 101 one could be trimmed for an SSK.

[seebart]

The Focus FK-2001 has the sturdiest dust cover ever, but it's totally impractical IMO.

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[Techno Trousers]

Depending on your definition of "hard", these existed for M's back in the day, and Unicomp still sells one:
.

I'm pretty sure that Unicomp one is one of the old school skins that are supposed to be left on all the time, and almost certainly destroy typing feel in the process. A keyboard condom, if you will. I'm thinking about a stiff plastic cover, that you lift off. It's hard enough to be held by one corner without drooping, but it has some flex if you bend it.

[dokyun]

Depending on your definition of "hard", these existed for M's back in the day, and Unicomp still sells one:
.

I'm pretty sure that Unicomp one is one of the old school skins that are supposed to be left on all the time, and almost certainly destroy typing feel in the process. A keyboard condom, if you will. I'm thinking about a stiff plastic cover, that you lift off. It's hard enough to be held by one corner without drooping, but it has some flex if you bend it.

Yeah, the Unicomp thing is a keyboard condom. IBM originally shipped Model Ms with one of those plastic covers you're talking about though, see: http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1989 ... an-89-new/

[Techno Trousers]

IBM originally shipped Model Ms with one of those plastic covers you're talking about though, see: http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1989 ... an-89-new/

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Interesting to see that IBM used those, but it makes sense. It would be awesome if we could recreate something like that.

And how about that case colored LED overlay! I don't think I've ever seen one of those in use before.

[E TwentyNine]

Depending on your definition of "hard", these existed for M's back in the day, and Unicomp still sells one:
.

I'm pretty sure that Unicomp one is one of the old school skins that are supposed to be left on all the time, and almost certainly destroy typing feel in the process. A keyboard condom, if you will. I'm thinking about a stiff plastic cover, that you lift off. It's hard enough to be held by one corner without drooping, but it has some flex if you bend it.

Yeah, the Unicomp thing is a keyboard condom. IBM originally shipped Model Ms with one of those plastic covers you're talking about though, see: http://clickykeyboards.com/product/1989 ... an-89-new/

This is what I was thinking of, are we certain that's not what Unicomp is selling? Can't tell much from their pics.

[webwit]

I got some of those dust covers from my Model M hunts. Very cheap and thin plastic, all those covers were damaged.

[Techno Trousers]

I got some of those dust covers from my Model M hunts. Very cheap and thin plastic, all those covers were damaged.

Well that's a bummer to hear. Though of course it could be improved upon by lot lizard. That's the whole point of this project!

[lot_lizard]

EDIT: Added WCass's original post for reference

i have some caps that are dyed. The dye only penetrates a few microns deep but is very long wearing. What would happen if you hit that with a laser? I would like to send you some purples and blacks (pearl and pebble underneath) to play with.

Finally took some pics of the experiment with the dyed caps that WCass was nice enough to send me. The first cap is a dirty K from the Cindy haul. Sorry Cindy, it's the first one I've pilfered, but all of mine are clean, and wanted to give an idea of depth of the engraving. As you can see... Not much.

For WCass's caps, the bottom row had one pass at pretty minimal rastering power. Top row is two passes. I think it is safe to say this would be a successful venture. Especially if any attention was given to tuning.

Dirty K from F122

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WCass dyed caps (top row had 2 passes, bottom row had one)

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[E TwentyNine]

Oh my. I think you have a winner on your hands.

[Techno Trousers]

Wow, the black ones are especially promising for those who want the elusive white-on-black look. If you dyed a blank set of Unicomp brilliant white keys, then lasered them, that could really be something!

[Nuum]

That looks awesome!
Can you feel the engraving with your fingers or is it too shallow?

[E TwentyNine]

That looks awesome!
Can you feel the engraving with your fingers or is it too shallow?

If you can, this is a prime candidate for either leaving it as is, or a few more passes and a fill with different color material to level it off.

Only thing I keep coming back to is why didn't someone think of this sooner?

[lot_lizard]

Can you feel the engraving with your fingers or is it too shallow?

With one pass, I can't perceive anything... but my hands aren't very delicate. With a second pass, you can feel a very slight texture change. That said, we can dig these things down pretty deep (pics below from earlier)

Spoiler:

[E TwentyNine]

That said, we can dig these things down pretty deep

I'm wondering about the potentials here if there's a fill material of the right consistency that will also maintain a bond with the cap over a long period of time.

The obvious "aftermarket 'doubleshot'" is there. "Tripleshot" seems plausible as well.

Now if only someone made some nice spherical MF caps...