New Macbook Pro with Touch Bar

vivalarevolución · 27 Oct 2016, 22:45

Dear fanboys and peons,

You no longer will use f-keys. And you will like it. Now shut up and give us your money.

Sincerely,

Apple

P.S. You also will need to buy some new cables to connect your iPhone.

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vivalarevolución · 27 Oct 2016, 22:50

I will admit, I actually think this is a great idea, as it frees up that space to make the keyboard waaaaaaay more flexible and capable.

How that thing works if you are using Linux, I don't have a clue. Not like that was a consideration during the development of this product, but I am just thinking in terms of my usage case.

citrojohn · 28 Oct 2016, 01:00

Sony Tablet P, here we come.

It's going to depend on developers supporting it - and thus on how far Apple are prepared to open it up. In the highly unlikely event that users can customise it themselves, yep, good idea, just a pity there aren't actual keys. If software developers have to do the customisation, it's less useful; but I suspect Apple programs will get customised layouts and everything else will get the same non-changeable standard layout.

webwit · 28 Oct 2016, 01:46

You need one of these.

Anyway, looks like a nice piece of hardware, but overpriced, you pay extra for the brand.

Ratfink · 28 Oct 2016, 01:53

Lenovo tried this exact thing with the Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 2. Everyone hated it.

Now Apple "invented" it (or so people will say), and everyone will love it.

fohat · 28 Oct 2016, 02:05

I have a problem with "touch" anything, and I am not talking about an attitude problem.

Somehow, I have a physiological problem in that touch sensors tend to ignore me. I have large hands and fingers, with rather dry skin, except when I am sweaty, and then it is sticky rather than slick.

My kids laugh at me when I attempt to answer my phone (Galaxy) by tapping and swiping it repeatedly without results. It is not uncommon for me to have to swipe the green circle half a dozen times, and sometimes I even miss a call while furiously swiping the "answer" button!

Whatever pressure or capacitance those sensors are looking for, I just don't seem to have it. I have come to the conclusion that the combination of large fingers, dissipating the pressure, and dry skin with less of whatever attribute it is looking for, makes my efforts less effective.

And I have tried pressing harder or softer, faster or slower, etc. I realize that they mostly look for a light quick tap on a small area. I can hardly use a telephone keyboard because my finger covers more than the single letter that I want.

Obviously I am just a crusty old curmudgeon, but I have made serious and sincere efforts with little improvement.

Findecanor · 28 Oct 2016, 02:26

These MacBook Pro laptop keyboards also come with a "2nd gen butterfly mechanism".
The first generation had very very low key travel and wide keys. Not far from full touch-keyboards now that Apple's touchpad can also realistically simulate clicks through haptic feedback. I'm guessing that we are going to see that next year.

Ratfink wrote: Lenovo tried this exact thing with the Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 2. Everyone hated it.

Mind you, there were more things with that keyboard that people hated than just the touchbar. The layout was crap.

With Apple also controlling the operating system and the apps that come with it, they can provide more useful functionality out of the box than what Lenovo did.

vivalarevolución · 28 Oct 2016, 03:46

Ratfink wrote: Lenovo tried this exact thing with the Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen 2. Everyone hated it.

Now Apple "invented" it (or so people will say), and everyone will love it.

I think this touch bar will be much more integrated with the operating system and the applications than what that Thinkpad X1 Carbon offered. I think we had a thread on that keyboard as well.

Also, you cannot plug your iPhone into this computer, which I am sure Apple intended so the legions of iPhone users have to buy another cable. Which leads me to further conclude that Apple is in the adapter and cable business more than anything. Make them for $2, sell them for $20. You will need a Lightning to USB Type C cable or USB type A to USB Type C, which Apple sells for a ridiculous price and most Apple users will buy straight from Apple because they are not brave enough to buy a knockoff from Amazon or Ebay.

axtran · 28 Oct 2016, 07:23

I'm an Apple fanboy through and through (who else would use a Mac Pro?) and I'm a little unhappy with the keyboard on the new Mac. Then again, we are all keyboard enthusiasts... I'm going to give the T460p a shot with the IPS display and quad core, in a 14" body it seems absolutely wonderful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

matt3o · 28 Oct 2016, 08:38

I should have to try this touch bar, but I never look at the keyboard when working at the PC, this and the lack of a tactile feedback (ie: a real button) make this thing incredibly uncomfortable for me.... at least in theory. I might be wrong and possibly it's the best thing ever.

Not that I will never know because these new macbooks are damned expensive. No really... I don't know how bad it is in the rest of Europe but over here it's insane (considering you must at least upgrade the SSD to 512 to do anything serious).

Wodan · 28 Oct 2016, 09:01

Haven't found any information on it and it seems they will not use the taptic engine for that touch bar. That's a big "schade" since that would have really helped giving back a very button-y feeling. Anyone who has experienced the taptic engine so far (iPhone 7, MacBook) will agree that it is superbly done and gives great click-like feedback. Adding this kind of flexible tactile feedback to the touch bar would really excite me.

andrewjoy · 28 Oct 2016, 11:02

What the actual fuck.

Seriosly this is getting beyond a joke now .

So my super expensive thunderbolt dock no longer works.
I cannot just plug in a USB stick.

I lose one USB port to charge it.

Fuck off apple, just fuck off, there is plenty of space for a normal USB thunderbolt and a magsafe there.

Khers · 28 Oct 2016, 11:15

They are ridiculously expensive here in Sweden as well. I thought my current (2015) MBP was more than a little expensive, but this one got even worse; especially when factoring in that I need 16GB of RAM and at least a 512GB SSD to get any real use of it.

The cheap version without the touch bar seems like the best option imo, but then you'll get a significantly slower cpu. If only we could get back to the good old days of cheap USD.

vivalarevolución · 28 Oct 2016, 13:05

What sort of prices are you all looking at? Here, the 13-inch is $1500 to $2000, and the 15-inch is $2400 to $2800.

matt3o · 28 Oct 2016, 13:13

top of the line is €3299 (LOL!)

Second best with 512gb €3039... are you kidding me?! is that made of adamatium?

seebart · 28 Oct 2016, 13:21

matt3o wrote: top of the line is €3299 (LOL!)

Second best with 512gb €3039... are you kidding me?! is that made of adamatium?

There is a reason why Apple is the most profitable tech company. For €3039 I'd get a new powerful Win PC with monitor and printer and still have € left...

vivalarevolución · 28 Oct 2016, 13:55

matt3o wrote: top of the line is €3299 (LOL!)

Second best with 512gb €3039... are you kidding me?! is that made of adamatium?

Oops, the pricés I quoted were the base models, without any processor, RAM or SSD upgrades. If you wanted to get all the upgrades, the 13-inch is $2900, and the 15-inch is $4300.

With the way that Mac OS runs these days, I think you at least need 16GB of RAM and a quad core if you are doing more than basic tasks. Before I got rid of my 13-inch Macbook Pro that was less than two years old, the dual core processor and 8 GB RAM were reaching their limits quite easily.

andrewjoy · 28 Oct 2016, 14:08

i can get an base rmbp 2015 for 806.25 + VAT, we will stick with that for our power users and with an air upgraded to 8GB for 671 +VAT

All prices in GBP ( for what its worth nowdays )

webwit · 28 Oct 2016, 14:11

Dell XPS 15 is looking very good now. I'll let the Apple Ribbon be tested by others for that price.

Thumper · 28 Oct 2016, 14:17

webwit wrote: Dell XPS 15 is looking very good now. I'll let the Apple Ribbon be tested by others for that price.

I have a guy in my university with a XPS 15 and if i didn't get that much discount on the Thinkpad X1 carbon i would have bought it.

fohat · 28 Oct 2016, 14:32

webwit wrote:
Dell XPS 15 is looking very good now.

My boss has one and is very happy with it, but he is anything but a "power user".

axtran · 28 Oct 2016, 15:19

I had an Alienware 13" with dual core Skylake i7 but it was easily struggling with my work (software creation and vector work). I am hoping this T460p with quad core Skylake i7 and a 2560x1440 14" display will do better.

I'm obsessed with high-resolution. Maybe upgrading my Late 2013 (lol) Mac Pro is indeed still an option thanks to neglect of that platform.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vivalarevolución · 28 Oct 2016, 15:37

I guess if you really value high resolution displays, the latest and greatest is a worthwhile purchase.

My laptop buying strategy is basically buying refurbished recent model Lenovo ThinkPads that allow for user upgradeable components, at the sacrifice of the finest screens and sleek designs. Because when it comes down to it, I want something that is modular, solid, and mostly capable.

Except the whole backdoor thing should cause me to stay away Lenovo devices.

matt3o · 28 Oct 2016, 15:39

€3299 is top of the line without updates. Which is almost insulting. I hope developers will start switching to linux.

jacobolus · 28 Oct 2016, 17:03

andrewjoy wrote: So my super expensive thunderbolt dock no longer works.
I cannot just plug in a USB stick.

Thunderbolt dock should work just fine with an adapter?

You can certainly plug in a USB stick. Just has to be USB Type C. These will soon be the standard.

* * *

Getting rid of 50 types of charging jacks, serial, parallel, PS/2, ADB, USB Type A, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, SCSI, VGA, DVI, MiniDVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, Thunderbolt 1, S-Video, RJ11, Ethernet, analog audio I/O, ... and replacing them all with a single type of cable that is small, robust, daisy chains, and works across every device is an amazing bit of progress. The transition is mildly annoying for a minority of people (just as it was with the elimination of floppy drives and migration to USB Type A on the original colorful iMacs), but the end result is a huge win for everyone.

USB Type C everything can’t come soon enough.

chuckdee · 28 Oct 2016, 17:05

matt3o wrote: €3299 is top of the line without updates. Which is almost insulting. I hope developers will start switching to linux.

I switched to Windows. Linux is unabashedly not mainstream. And that's fine. Just not for me. And I don't think for a lot of the audience for the Mac. Though those will most likely drink the cool-aid. If I was in the market for something that expensive, I'd go with the Surface Studio. The display alone is worth it.

jacobolus · 28 Oct 2016, 17:13

matt3o wrote: (considering you must at least upgrade the SSD to 512 to do anything serious).

This is a huge exaggeration. 256 GB is plenty of storage for all kinds of “serious” uses. I’ve had a laptop with 256 GB storage for years and years with no problem.

Just offload your terabytes of extra data to an external drive.

jacobolus · 28 Oct 2016, 17:19

Anyway, since this is a keyboard forum, let’s talk about input devices instead of griping about exchange rates.

https://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/sta ... 3681239040

matt3o · 28 Oct 2016, 17:20

jacobolus wrote: This is a huge exaggeration. 256 GB is plenty of storage for all kinds of “serious” uses. I’ve had a laptop with 256 GB storage for years and years with no problem.

I'm sorry, not for the way I work. I can't offload all my data every time I need to work on a 1080p footage. Not to mention you can't offload virtual machines (which are 7-20gb each).

vivalarevolución · 28 Oct 2016, 17:31

matt3o wrote: €3299 is top of the line without updates. Which is almost insulting. I hope developers will start switching to linux.

Yea, that's the thing. This new Macbook Pro undoubtedly has some great technological features, including the display, keyboard, trackpad, track bar, and general Apple aesthetics. All of these features are impressive in their own right. Yet the computing power is no more than a similarily speced device that costs one third of the price, and has I/O ports that work with all your current devices. Apple devices have become full-on elitism, at these prices.

Will we ever reach a tipping point in which the consumers are not willing to pay the price premium for Apple devices? Personally, I have. But I am not the typical consumer, so I don't expect a revolution. Maybe the developer crowd will start moving away, who knows.