Chinese USB Hall Effect Keyboard - Review and Impressions

[XMIT]

is the bamboo treated or sealed in anyway or is it raw?

It is treated with either a sealing wax or Tung Oil. The oil works much better but for the first few days after application it smells terrible!

[XMIT]

By "retro" I assume you mean "Cherry G80-3000" or "IBM Model M 1391401" as examples.

Given the hypercontemporary look of minimalist acrylic boards with LED backlighting, I'd say that "retro" has also come to mean "Filco Majestouch-2" or "RealForce 104U". I'm not looking for "retro", I'm just looking for "conventional". Who knew that would be so hard (and so expensive)?

The easiest way to do this would be to build the keyboard core around a steel plate, and to make that compatible with Costar-style cases. That would also make it easy to drop into an off the shelf aluminum case (such as the TEX or Vortex cases).

I'll chat with the manufacturer about that option. That would pretty easily yield a pretty conventional looking board, something very much like the WASD v2.

[Techno Trousers]

Would you have to worry about magnetization of a steel plate over time causing issues with the magnetic sensing of the switches?

[XMIT]

Would you have to worry about magnetization of a steel plate over time causing issues with the magnetic sensing of the switches?

Hmm. Possibly? Making an aluminum plate would be easier anyway if we had to CNC it, so I'll explore that first.

[Memoren]

Is there any difference in sound between the bamboo and acrylic cases?

[XMIT]

I am finally home and have received the updated samples! I need more time with them but they are a huge improvement. The new sliders are so much quieter than the old ones. I am very pleased and very optimistic about the next orders.

I'll update later with some videos comparing all the case materials and the sliders soon.

If you have one of the prototype keyboards and would like replacement sliders (with upstroke damping) or springs (with no pinging) : please let me know ASAP and I can try to order some replacements. It is about a 2-3 hour job to disassemble the board and replace everything. This is not a free service; you'll need to pay some shipping cost.

[webwit]

That accent isn't right, are you a fake Texan?

[zslane]

...sliders (with upstroke damping)...

What is the expected approach to damping the bottoming-out noise with these? O-rings?

[XMIT]

That accent isn't right, are you a fake Texan?

I'm from New York City.

[XMIT]

...sliders (with upstroke damping)...

What is the expected approach to damping the bottoming-out noise with these? O-rings?

There is no downstroke damping, but, soft landing pads under the magnets, between the PCB and the sliders, would be your best bet. Feel free to experiment with these. I don't have time to offer these before this upcoming group buy.

Recall that the original goal was to get these into people's hands for Christmas. That's probably not happening but I want to incur minimal delays at this point.

The manufacturer changed one variable out from under me (they are no longer offering the ABS case) so that delays photography and the start of the group buy until the new case is here. I also need some soak time with the latest prototypes to weed out any final issues.

Down stroke damping, new case materials, and new layouts are all candidates for the next major revision of the boards.

[zslane]

Down stroke damping, new case materials, and new layouts are all candidates for the next major revision of the boards.

Okay, cool.

Here's hoping there will be a "next major revision"...

[Elrick]

Down stroke damping, new case materials, and new layouts are all candidates for the next major revision of the boards.

Looking forward to this one. Getting a very unique keyboard with switches, please make sure the casing is FIRST class in quality and aesthetics.

[XMIT]

Down stroke damping, new case materials, and new layouts are all candidates for the next major revision of the boards.

Looking forward to this one. Getting a very unique keyboard with switches, please make sure the casing is FIRST class in quality and aesthetics.

I'm bummed that the ABS case option isn't really available anymore (they want a MOQ of 1000 boards for this, it was nice because it was a little smaller and had nice flip-out feet). The acrylic option is pretty nice, and the bamboo is nice as well. CNC aluminum will hopefully come later.

[andrewjoy]

Wait what bamboo is back ????


AWSOME!

It is treated with either a sealing wax or Tung Oil. The oil works much better but for the first few days after application it smells terrible!

Would recomend danish oil.

[fohat]

Wait what bamboo is back ?

Bamboo might look pretty good if you could use brass or bronze screws and turn them over to show minimal smooth heads.

[XMIT]

The current thinking is three options:

61-key black acrylic with black keys and 50g springs
87-key black acrylic with black keys and 50g springs
87-key bamboo with white keys and 70g springs

The ABS option is no more.

Since there seems to be interest I may offer a 104-key option. I'd like to offer just one option, and it will likely be bamboo. The main problem is that I won't have a chance to order a prototype 104-key board before the group buy so this introduces some risk.

Any single option has an MOQ of 50.

As you'll see in photos soon the latest revision has "hidden" screws that you cannot see from the front of the keyboard.

[Phenix]

is HHKB and ISO planned (someday)?

[parablol]

87-key black acrylic with black keys and 50g springs

Count me in!
Thanks XIMIT for all your work organizing this.

[Elrick]

Wait what bamboo is back ?

Bamboo might look pretty good if you could use brass or bronze screws and turn them over to show minimal smooth heads.

If anything, if they are using organic material as a casing then why not use heavy gauge Marine Plywood, that stuff is definitely water proof and very rigid.

To finish it off, just clear coat it with some two-pack varnish which should last for years.

[XMIT]

is HHKB and ISO planned (someday)?

HHKB would take a new PCB. The manufacturer has stated that a MOQ of 50 applies for new layouts without backlighting, and that reworking the board with backlighting is rather harder (so MOQ of maybe 200-500). Then I'd need to source a smaller RShift and a Fn key, and work out a new key mapping.

ISO is available today. If this first round is successful I could offer ISO in a future buy, sure. You're not the first to have asked.

[Virtureal]

Is the 60% still with the awful touch buttons on the side?

[XMIT]

Is the 60% still with the awful touch buttons on the side?

No. The latest prototype, per my request, does away with those stupid buttons and implements an almost-sensible Fn key overlay.

[citrojohn]

This group buy's going to inflate itself, isn't it! I'd be interested in a 104-key with bamboo case, and if the 104 doesn't reach the 50 orders I'll go with an 84-key bamboo. In fact I'd probably go with anything to get a feel of modern Hall-effect! (even hidden screws )

You might get some demand for non-winkeyed boards later - fits the retro ethos. And JIS is my particular fancy - but there'll be time enough for those things when this lot's completed.

(Edit - just looked at the 60% layout - Car Race?!)

[XMIT]

(Edit - just looked at the 60% layout - Car Race?!)

Yes. These are LED pre-sets that correspond to certain games, in this case, a driving game. I'll do my best to explain these better in the manual that I'm writing for the boards.

[XMIT]

It's a little early for this, but, I wanted to share some details about the upcoming group buy since I've received so many questions about it.

tl;dr: I'm working with Massdrop for this.

Now, before you throw me your slings and arrows, read on below as I explain why this is the right choice for this group buy.

Spoiler:

As much as I love keyboards, I already have two other full time jobs: being an engineer, and being a dad. If we're bringing these boards to market I need help.

I explored five options for the group buy:
Importing the boards myself;
Becoming an Amazon seller;
Working with a retail partner;
Working with a corporate partner, and;
Working with Massdrop.

Here is what became of each option.

Importing the boards myself signs me up for a huge workload. I would need to incorporate, file taxes, keep accurate records, buy insurance, and deal with all shipping logistics myself. This would yield the most profit, and may be the route I go if these sales are extremely successful (think thousands of boards on a regular basis), but is the most work. This is what Ellipse is doing for his sales, and, I don't know how he is making it work (apart from charging quite a lot for his boards).

Becoming an Amazon retailer is almost as much work as importing boards myself, and requires me to deal with RMAs and other nuances of the Amazon seller agreement. They would make shipping easier but also take a bigger cut.

Working with a retail partner - and making myself a reseller - is an attractive option so long as I can find a good partner. The one partner I contacted, MechanicalKeyboards.com, stopped answering e-mails after a couple of days. If these sales go well it's possible that you'll see these boards in inventory on their site. But, I expect that, like me, they're waiting to see how the group buy goes.

Working with a corporate partner - such as, say, Das Keyboard or (shudder) Razer, would mean working with an established player to incorporate this switch design, either as a full time employee or an independent consultant. This is a route I have only barely explored. I'd love to, for example, collaborate with Input Club in the future if they'll have me. HaaTa and I have already chatted about these boards a bunch, and HaaTa does have a couple of samples.

So, that leaves Massdrop. HaaTa gave me a contact there that he's worked with in the past. I met with them in person last week and really liked what I saw.

Massdrop knows keyboards. They understand the community really quite well for a private company. The employees who tried the Hall Effect sample I brought loved how smooth it was.

Massdrop knows manufacturing. I'm working with a Chinese partner to make these boards. The model of the group buy falls perfectly into the pattern that they've established with countless other buys. This is a turn key operation for them.

Massdrop knows customer support. Say what you will, but, they're able to warehouse items, break them down for shipping, and provide support and updates in a way that I simply cannot with the time I have available at the moment.

Finally, the Massdrop folks are not profiteers. Yes, their services do cost something, but the company's profits don't come from stealing from the keyboard community. They come from running lots of group buys, all the time. (Did you know they have like 100 employees?)

All of this comes together to provide me a way of having these keyboards reach as many people as possible. I can point non-keyboard enthusiast friends at the site so they can buy it!

I did raise the issue of international shipping concerns directly with Massdrop in person. They regret how much bad press they have received to this end. The facts are that: their only distribution center is in New Jersey (in the US), and, as a business they need to comply with all applicable laws regarding customs reporting. If international shipping is a huge concern perhaps I can work with a European partner much further in the future. (I did suggest to Massdrop that they open a European distribution center. I don't think this will happen any time soon.)

The delay at this point is directly related to having final prototypes in hand. To proceed with the group buy, Massdrop requires product photography of final or near-final versions. I was ready to go with this until (a) my samples were delayed, and (b) the manufacturer canceled the ABS body option. I'm now on a day-to-day delay until I receive a sample of the replacement acrylic body option for the TKL boards.

Hopefully I've convinced you that Massdrop isn't a bad option. Here's the bottom line: working with a partner lets me focus on what I do best: product design and engineering work to bring you the best possible Hall Effect keyboard, unlike any other on the market.

[davkol]

Massdrop? Where's my pitchfork?

[scottc]

Well, I guess I'm probably out by default then. That's really an awful shame because I'm very enthusiastic about these.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with your claim about their customer service. In my experience it is awful. I've had to contact support for 3 of my 4 orders from Massdrop, and they've been utterly disappointing in all cases. I understand that you couldn't hope to handle all of this yourself, however. Their bad reputation for international shipping is completely deserved, however, and despite their best efforts, they are still absolutely terrible at it.

Even if I can't take part anymore due to the logistical problems, I hope this all goes well and wish you best of luck with the GB.

[XMIT]

Look, if Massdrop is a deal breaker for you, don't buy. At this point it's Massdrop or nothing.

This was pithy, so: if you have a concrete suggestion regarding a better group buy option given my constraints above send me a PM, I'd love to hear about it! Also if you have specific, executable feedback for Massdrop given past group buys, send me a PM or post it here: review-f45/massdrop-customer-support-t14887.html

If you feel you are having any issues at all with Massdrop send me a PM and I'll talk to them myself. scottc, please shoot me a PM reminding me of the troubles you've had with them in the past. Would it make things any easier if they were able to use Transglobal Express to the UK?

That's all I want to say about Massdrop on this thread. Let's keep this focused on the Hall Effect boards to not derail discussion. If you want to say more about Massdrop do so on the thread I linked above.

There is a good chance that I'll sell some prototypes at some point. I'll list those in the Classifieds here. At this point I have six prototype boards.

[fohat]

In my ignorance, I have always thought of "Massdrop" as similar to "reddit" - that is - an Ebola-ridden cesspool lurking in some ugly corner of the internet frequented by weird-Os.

Maybe I will need to re-evaluate. As a US customer with a Paypal account, I may have less potential liability than our friends living outside of Trump-land.

I still hate to have to "join" things just to see what is there, but it seems like a simple thing.

XMIT had talked about a price of ~$100 and a date of "soon" - is that still feasible?

[XMIT]

In my ignorance, I have always thought of "Massdrop" as similar to "reddit" - that is - an Ebola-ridden cesspool lurking in some ugly corner of the internet frequented by weird-Os.

To be fair, Massdrop is a private company.

XMIT had talked about a price of ~$100 and a date of "soon" - is that still feasible?

That's the plan! I'm doing everything I can to make it happen. Again, due to both a shipping delay of the prototypes, and a last minute product change, there are some delays. The delays are on the order of days, not weeks or months.

My goal was to get boards in your hands for Christmas. That's probably not happening, but New Year's isn't ruled out yet.