A new US Republican thread 2016

[jacobolus]

Actually I’m just trolling you because your line of argument in this thread has been insufferably annoying (it’s not you specifically, this is a recently prevalent argument which I think is disingenuous bullshit [its main promoters are folks who definitely know better], for reasons which would require a long off-topic digression that isn’t really worth it to get into here), and I’m in a bad mood for unrelated reasons. Sorry, nothing personal.

[andrewjoy]

Actually I’m just trolling you because your commentary in this thread has been insufferably annoying, and I’m in a bad mood for unrelated reasons. Sorry, nothing personal.

Its ok.

[sarcasm] I best call the UN, being mean to people on the internet is a crime now don't you know . [/sarcasm]

With me its never personal , i just try to make people see things clearly, to open minds to other ideas. I do struggle to get my point across sometimes, thats a failing of my own making.

Based on all available evidence that i am aware of the point i try to make is valid.

I will be more than happy to admit i am wrong and change my viewpoint if new valid evidence pops up.

[vivalarevolución]

In his first interview after the election, Donald Trump tells CBS News' Leslie Stahl, "there could be some fencing," along the U.S. border with Mexico.

It's just a clip though...

Full video:

http://digg.com/2016/donald-trump-60-minutes-interview

Really what I got from that interview was a shift to more moderate positions in order to rope back in some never Trumpers or assuage concerns of very on the fence supporters. He already has a strong base that has no concerns for the factual basis of anything he says or individuals that will always support him simply because they oppose the ideas of the left or liberals (e.g. pro-abortion, 2nd amendment, etc.).

What i also get is a continued disdain for facts to push his agenda. He downplays the racially motivated incidents as a few, but there have been tens of thousands that fill days worth of material for a dedicated social media feed. I see misdirection and avoidance, I see a stretching of facts or ignorance of facts. I see all the same stuff that I saw during the campaign, yet somewhat downplayed. It's the same way that our last two administrations downplayed civilian casualities in our war mongoring efforts.

What I've seen the media do over the past week is a take a compromising tone that has no concern for holding the leaders accountable or analyzing the pure misdirection or agenda of their words. They basically are attempting to humanize and normalize a plutocrat that represents the greatest threat of a a lurch towards autocracy in my lifetime. Except the media has been doing this since the beginning of the Bush administration.

Oh by the way, he's going after the New York Times again. New York Times is one of the best newspapers this country has left, and I say that understanding their complete bias. I'm sure other media outlets will come later on. Despite hiring the head of the alt-right misinformation media machine, Breitbart, as his chief strategist. Coincidence? I don't think so.

What we have here a different breed of plutocrat that this country hasn't seen before. The best hope was a crazy Socialist like Bernie, who actually is a closest thing to a voice of the people since what, Lincoln? I don't know.

The only hope is for the regular people of this country to stop relying on the highest members of the government to solve their problems and find some common ground. The little bickering like what is going on between jacobolus and andrewjoy doesn't do anything (even though they aren't citizens of the same country, it's relevant).

[vivalarevolución]

Oh, by the way, he says that he's going to deport 2 to 3 million illegals immigrants with criminal records. What kind of criminal records? Jaywalking and parking violations? Are they people that were dragged here as small children? Are these people actually people? Or just subhuman, illegal immigrants? What group is it alright to demonize and treat as subhuman next? This is the first broad based attack as president on a group comprising of millions of people and basically reducing them to a simplified category that makes them less than human. Just wait for the next group that you're convinced should be kicked out or banned from entering the country.

[webwit]

Actually I’m just trolling you because your line of argument in this thread has been insufferably annoying

I don't think you know what trolling means, unless you think it's like this guy writing walls of text:

[jacobolus]

“More moderate positions” like:

We’re going to reverse Roe v. Wade, and women can cross state lines if they want abortions [sucks if you’re a poor and live far from the state line, I guess; also, hooray, a much broader part of the country will going to get to experience the joy of reproductive health from modern Texas, where the pregnancy mortality rate has gone up by amounts unprecedented in any industrialized country]

We’re going to deport 2, maybe 3 million people right away (the “bad hombres”, presumably), then figure out what to do with the rest later. Presumably we’re talking about police going door to door? More realistically, since it’s unclear how this could possibly work without massive protests, legal challenges, etc., and since Trump clearly has no idea what he’s talking about, the policy will be something different entirely.

He’s still going to repeal the ACA, but he’ll leave in the provisions preventing insurers from dropping people with pre-existing conditions (hint: this is the expensive part, and if you get rid of the mandate, etc. will going to cause healthcare costs to balloon), and allow young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance. “No, we’re going to do it simultaneously. It’ll be just fine. We’re not going to have, like, a two-day period and we’re not going to have a two-year period where there’s nothing. It will be repealed and replaced. And we’ll know. And it’ll be great health care for much less money.” Good thing Paul Ryan has a magic wand up his sleeve.

Trump still has a secret plan to destroy ISIS, and he still won’t tell anyone about it. Also he still knows more than the generals: “I’m not gonna say anything. I don’t want to tell them anything. I don’t want to tell anybody anything. [...] // You said you knew more than the generals about ISIS // Well, I’ll be honest with you, I probably do because look at the job they’ve done. OK, look at the job they’ve done. They haven’t done the job. Now, maybe it’s leadership, maybe it’s something else. Who knows? All I can tell you is we’re going to get rid of ISIS.”

Still not releasing his tax returns. Still not planning to divest himself of any assets which might cause a conflict of interest. You can forget about a blind trust. We can all look forward to continuity in Trump’s lifelong standard MO, corruption and graft.

Taxes on the rich are coming way down: “There was a major tax bill lowering taxes in this country. We’re going to substantially simplify and lower the taxes” (For my wife and me, this is probably going to be a significant amount of money. Yay us? I guess we can donate it to Planned Parenthood or something and make up part of the upcoming shortfall in funding for reproductive health services, or donate it to the ACLU, or the SPLC, or the Sierra Club.) Of course there’s no plan to make up the difference, which probably means big cuts to Federal programs somewhere. Maybe they can it up out of Paul Ryan’s plan to end Medicare.

So much for “draining the swamp”. The majority of his transition team is lobbyists for industries hostile to government agencies he’ll be staffing, but that’s okay because “That’s the only people you have down there.”

On the recent spate of hate crimes across the country, “I am very surprised to hear that [..] But I think it’s a very small amount”

He thinks the protestors marching in the streets are probably “paid” to be there.

He’ll keep tweeting: “I’m going to do very restrained, if I use it at all, I’m going to do very restrained. I find it tremendous. It’s a modern form of communication.” – So I take it the outbursts against B-list celebs he had fights with 20 years ago will be a bit less frequent, and maybe not at 3AM this time.

Melania is going to work on bullying as first lady: “I think it’s very important because a lot of children and teenagers are getting hurt. And we need to teach them how to talk to each other, how to treat each other and to, to be able to connect with each other on the right way.” (the jokes write themselves here)

[vivalarevolución]

Actually I’m just trolling you because your line of argument in this thread has been insufferably annoying (it’s not you specifically, this is a recently prevalent argument which I think is disingenuous bullshit [its main promoters are folks who definitely know better], for reasons which would require a long off-topic digression that isn’t really worth it to get into here), and I’m in a bad mood for unrelated reasons. Sorry, nothing personal.

Here's the deal. If you want to convince people of your arguments (many of which I agree with), the long academic discussions are not going to work. The sort of crowd that likes that stuff already agrees with you. Focus on changing the method of communication to something that finds common ground with people with differing viewpoints rahter than lecturing them or insulting or name calling or belittling or reducing them to stupid. And build from there.

I honestly believe that the strength of our institutions and civil society are being threatened. This feels so much bigger than waiting another four years, and part of it is because I understand the agenda of the vice president and his people, and it is about their own power, advancement, status, and control before the country. And my own personal lifelong interests in government, politics, history, and dystopian fiction.

[jacobolus]

This is an internet forum, and some of the participants can barely read (e.g. webwit), not to mention half the people here are Europeans who think it’s hilarious if American democracy destroys itself, 5–6 more countries obtain nuclear weapons, Russia reconquers all the former Soviet states, the world gets into a massive protectionist trade war, and the planet melts into the ocean. It’s highly unlikely anyone’s mind is going to be changed here.

[vivalarevolución]

This is an internet forum, and some of the participants can barely read (e.g. webwit). It’s highly unlikely anyone’s mind is going to be changed here.

True, and mostly Europeans that have less stake in the game. But sometimes it happens. More people read this discussions that post here. Apply the principles to outside of here.

And nice troll attempt.

[fohat]

I honestly believe that the strength of our institutions and civil society are being threatened. This feels so much bigger than waiting another four years, and part of it is because I understand the agenda of the vice president and his people, and it is about their own power, advancement, status, and control before the country.

I agree that most non-Americans are not even remotely understanding the colossal fear and loathing that the 74% of eligible voters who did not vote for Trump are experiencing these days.

My guess is that the rest of the world is seeing the grand finale of a circus rather than the dawning of a dark age.

[Wodan]

The closer we get to the Trump era, the less concerned I am about him - from my perspective. He's been pretty moderate since the polls closed. Starting to be afraid of the people that voted Trump because they believed in his words during the campaign ... then suddenly Clinton isn't going to jail!

[chuckdee]

This is an internet forum, and some of the participants can barely read (e.g. webwit)...

We're going there?

[chuckdee]

The closer we get to the Trump era, the less concerned I am about him - from my perspective. He's been pretty moderate since the polls closed. Starting to be afraid of the people that voted Trump because they believed in his words during the campaign ... then suddenly Clinton isn't going to jail!

That is in general the pattern- campaign from the base, govern from the middle. Trump has it a bit easier having a republican controlled house and senate, but not totally so (as has been intimated in early talks with Senate leadership).

[andrewjoy]

This is an internet forum, and some of the participants can barely read (e.g. webwit)...

We're going there?

It looks like we are unfortunately.

That is exactly the type of thing i was on about.

Insults / divert the conversation so people don't have to face facts.

But unfortunately the majority of the left don't understand that they are the ones that caused trump to win , not trump.

Trump is a useless climate change denying creationist with a terrible business ethic and no experience. And he beat the lefts number one choice.

If that does not set alarm bells off in your head that the left is out of touch with people then i honestly don't know what will.

[seebart]

This is an internet forum, and some of the participants can barely read (e.g. webwit), not to mention half the people here are Europeans who think it’s hilarious if American democracy destroys itself, 5–6 more countries obtain nuclear weapons, Russia reconquers all the former Soviet states, the world gets into a massive protectionist trade war, and the planet melts into the ocean. It’s highly unlikely anyone’s mind is going to be changed here.

This is the first time (in this thread) that you are not offering sensible arguments but rather grumpy ranting...no one here thinks any of this is hilarious I can guarantee you that, if it seems that way to you it may be that you are not picking up our cynicism.

[andrewjoy]

Oh no i think its funny, in a cynical way yes but still funny.

[seebart]

Oh no i think its funny, in a cynical way yes but still funny.

The truth is I find this situation SOOOO fucked up I cannot deal with it in any other way sorry. I do not feel guilty.

Spoiler:

Ohh look... ...a duck that can't read.

[Ratfink]

Oh, this is still going on? Damn, why haven't you guys started ignoring this thread? Political shouting matches like this only lead to sour grapes.

[seebart]

No jacobolus, Noam Chomsky is absolutely right! The alien perspective is interesting and fun! You should not have deleted your link, watch this guys...

http://www.jungundnaiv.de/2016/10/23/no ... 4-english/

Now regarding the title of that German show...I wish I was jung und naiv again...my childhood was more fun somehow.

[Halvar]

OMG.

This creeps me out even more than the guy himself.

[jacobolus]

[seebart]

OMG.This creeps me out even more than the guy himself.

Yes that is a pyramid of shit. So Palin is in for sure? Wow.

Ahh I see your back jacobolus, posting comics now... I like that.

[fohat]

I had to go to Snopes to see if that was for real, not that there was real reason to doubt it.

The real Palin is probably nowhere near that healthy and hot anyway.

[seebart]

Awe come on don't spoil it...OK I have to delete it then.

[vivalarevolución]

Oh, this is still going on? Damn, why haven't you guys started ignoring this thread? Political shouting matches like this only lead to sour grapes.

This is an outlet to express some of our thoughts that we may be able to during our daily routines. Perosnally, I'm not sour, I've actually learned a few things here and there.

[vivalarevolución]

OMG.

This creeps me out even more than the guy himself.

If you think the government is mismanaged by idealogues now, this group looks like they can take it to another level.

[chuckdee]

Oh, this is still going on? Damn, why haven't you guys started ignoring this thread? Political shouting matches like this only lead to sour grapes.

This is an outlet to express some of our thoughts that we may be able to during our daily routines. Perosnally, I'm not sour, I've actually learned a few things here and there.

And though there are a few shouts, for the most part it's been civil and above board, without the usual personal attacks that tend to be inevitable in such discussions. I, for one, appreciate the discourse, even as I await and laud our new Trumpian overlords.

[fohat]

OMG.

This creeps me out even more than the guy himself.

The only person on that pyramid of abominations who is not a climate denier is Chris Christie, and even he says that it is "not a crisis"

[jacobolus]

Trump wants a top secret security clearance for his children (not sure about Barron, king of cyber) http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-team- ... -children/

I guess he can’t make his own decisions without Uday, Qusay, and Ivanka as cheerleaders.

[seebart]

Trump wants a top secret security clearance for his children (not sure about Barron, king of cyber) http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-team- ... -children/

I guess he can’t make his own decisions without Uday, Qusay, and Ivanka as cheerleaders.

Ugh, I wonder if that's going to be allowed...on the other hand after seesing that recent 60 Minutes interview it seems his children are all more sensible (and intelligent) than the old man himself so it might not be such a bad idea.