Kailh Cherry ML Inspired low profile switches

[matt3o]

the stem is very simple, probably the best option would be to 3D print some samples, then make a mold and cast them with resin. A lot of work for sure. You'd also have to solve the stabilizer issue.

anyway would be nice to try those SP keycaps first.

[MrBishop]

i have been wanting to build a mobile board and use ML switches due to form factor. would be interested in a set of switches if nothing more than the novelty of the hole thing. i have a g84 i'm going to be tearing apart this weekend to start prototyping the project and such. let me know if there is a GB on this or where to order them. i'll do my own GB if i have to.

[matt3o]

I just saw a potato camera picture of the keycaps (I don't know if I can post it, I'll ask), they basically look like laptop keycaps. I ordered a bunch, I should get them any time.

[matt3o]

teaser-ino

[scottc]

Oooh, that looks so cool! I love how they seem to have China-font like eBay listings.

[Wodan]

You know it's from China if they use this font ...

wonder if that*s flat enough to use a modern thinpad track point in those keyboards.

Man I haven't seen tall trackpoints for sale in AGES.

[matt3o]

legends are just for testing, this is just to demo the keycap shape

[matt3o]

very quick review of the kailh very big switch tester I posted the other

[zslane]

Those keycaps seem to be the very antithesis of the Big Thick PBT keycap fetish everyone in the mech community has. What gives?

[Laser]

Maybe the appeal is to have a thin, easy, easy to carry keyboard that fits in a similarly small bag, something like a laptop keyboard, but made from "real" switches and keycaps?

[matt3o]

I guess these switches are targeted to gaming laptops or possibly some kind of OEM. I dunno, but the click switches are really really nice.

The 14th of November I will be meeting a Kailh manager who comes to Italy, we will talk about these switches I'll know better by then.

[Elrick]

The 14th of November I will be meeting a Kailh manager who comes to Italy, we will talk about these switches I'll know better by then.

Insist upon a normal keyboard release that can use 3rd party key-caps?

Would be nice if they could provide traditional CherryMX stems to really sell this new switch design. Remember everyone wants this to be successful so make him see the DT light and be more appreciative of people like us.

[matt3o]

I'm pretty sure they are targeting gaming laptops. the custom keyboards market for them is like 0.001% of the yearly revenue. but I'll try.

[matt3o]

Okay yesterday I met with a Kailh representative. Ian is a very nice guy with a very deep understanding of how switches work. It was a very interesting meeting and I hope we will be doing something together.

We talked a lot about how a nice "silent but clicky" switch could be done, basically a tactile switch with a strong feedback but without the noise.

Regarding the low profile switches, I told him that a huge problem is the keycaps. Being the switches not compatible with Cherry ML they have to provide the best keycaps ever. He said that they are not only committed to that but they will also provide legends for all (most) EU countries!

Unfortunately it seems it wouldn't be possible to do double injection because the key is too short, but PBT with dye-sublimation should be feasible. The problem is that it won't be backlight compatible and they wouldn't want to lose that market. We will be talking more in the coming days about keycaps.

I believe a low profile 60% (with option for split spacebar) would be a nice starting project.

[Wodan]

with track point? *meow*

[cookie]

Hey matt3o,

interesting news. I personally had very bad experience with ML switches and am therefore very curios how this will turn out. You sound like it's a bad thing not having DS which implies ABS as material. I must say that I personally would always chose dyesub PBT over any ABS cap.
No backlight? No Problem! That is a definitive PLUS, if they really wan't that marked they could paint some glowing flames, Japanese Dragons and Laserbeams on the case and include a voucher for a mullet haircut!

Anyway, I am super exited to se how they will create such a switch. It would be amazing if they could keep the "Footprint" of the switch so that we can solder them on existing MX boards, that would be just awesome!
The biggest flaw I've encountered with ML switches is that they are very stubborn if pressed off-center.

[matt3o]

Anyway, I am super exited to se how they will create such a switch. It would be amazing if they could keep the "Footprint" of the switch so that we can solder them on existing MX boards, that would be just awesome!

I'll soon have some more samples, I'm more than happy to send them to interested parties. the footprint will be different though.

The biggest flaw I've encountered with ML switches is that they are very stubborn if pressed off-center.

that is not a problem, the stem is right in the center and inside the switch they have a nice little wire that acts as a stabilizer.

[Scarpia]

I'll soon have some more samples, I'm more than happy to send them to interested parties. the footprint will be different though.

If you have enough, I would love a couple of sample switches. I've always loved the form factor of ML boards, but not the switches. These little fellas could change the compact keyboard landscape!

[Chyros]

Anyway, I am super exited to se how they will create such a switch. It would be amazing if they could keep the "Footprint" of the switch so that we can solder them on existing MX boards, that would be just awesome!

I'll soon have some more samples, I'm more than happy to send them to interested parties. the footprint will be different though.

Most definitely interested!

[matt3o]

PM me your address

[cookie]

I am also interested into trying out a few switches and solder them on my g84 PCB if the footprint is the same as the old ML switch. If I like the result, I'd be interested in buying some of the switches to replace the old ML.

[matt3o]

the footprint is the same as the old ML switch

it is not! this switch is in no way compatible with Cherry ML. Niet. Nada. Can't be done.

But if you want some samples send me a PM

[Elrick]

Unfortunately it seems it wouldn't be possible to do double injection because the key is too short, but PBT with dye-sublimation should be feasible. The problem is that it won't be backlight compatible and they wouldn't want to lose that market. We will be talking more in the coming days about keycaps.

Make sure they actually do a decent Dye-sublimation here with correct spacing and appropriate sizing.

Personally would like to see a normal 104 keyboard done with these switches because I have space and need something to use that doesn't cramp my style .

[andrewjoy]

I could love to see this in a laptop .

I am one of the few people that thinks that the ML is one of cherries finest creations second only to vintage black, its smooth has a good sound and tactile bump and for its size is bloody amazing, MX brown should honestly feel embarrassed as they are not as good.

If the support is there for caps ( as in decent replacement PBT sets )i would love to get hold of one of this ( tacticle or clicky) .

[George_C]

Bit late to he party, but does anyone know where you can source keycaps for Cherry ML's? Or these if they are compatible.

[davkol]

These aren't compatible (as mentioned earlier here or at GH).

Signature Plastics and a couple of other manufacturers have (or at least used to have) tooling for ML-compatible caps, but those would be prohibitively expensive, unless you bought a ton of them.

[matt3o]

I shipped few samples around, when you guys get them, please post your impressions.

[drevyek]

Really interested in these- would love for something short enough to drop into a laptop, or into something like the Surface type cover.

Is there a provisional name for these? Or just Kaihl ML?

[andrewjoy]

Thats how i see it , something to carry with you to replace the terrible keyboard ALL modern laptops have, beacuse laptops have to save 0.0000001mm so they can be thin and sell to hipsters in coffee shops whist the rest of us get work done for years and years on real laptops.

[matt3o]

I should get some more samples very soon, in the meantime they are working on the PBT keycaps.

Is there a provisional name for these? Or just Kaihl ML?

so far the switches are called PG1350