Model MF - GB CLOSED

[Hypersphere]

@lot_lizard: I just sent you a PM with my first spreadsheet. I wanted to get this one in the hopper before the switches ran out. I will be following up with additional spreadsheets. You can invoice me separately or issue a consolidated invoice -- either way is fine as long as there are sufficient switches for the first order.

I didn't see a space on the form to enter my shipping information. Will this be handled at the invoice stage?

Thanks again for your incredible leadership of this historic project!

[fohat]

I didn't see a space on the form to enter my shipping information.
Will this be handled at the invoice stage?

Just a reminder that Paypal provides its "verified" shipping info automatically.
(except with "Gifts" - because clearly nobody would send money to a stranger!)

As an ebay seller I have run into numerous occasions where buyers have moved, changed names, come out from under parents' accounts, etc, but not updated their Paypal info to their current address.

You should always keep your Paypal info up to date.

[evoman]

Given the info above about the Unicomp case, I assume the full size one would fit into an M13 case and use those caps? I have one of these:



and the trackpoint is pretty much shot and the cable is coming apart (and it is a fixed cable), so this could be an ideal way to salvage some use from that board (owned from new!). I am still not confident that I understand the options and what parts get replaced etc, but it sounds like a great way to get some utility out of a 'problematic' Model M (and the industrial M13 is a pretty cool looking keyboard, though the trackpoint buttons will be a problem that I have no thought of a solution for).

[Techno Trousers]

I've never seen the inside of an M13 case, but I understand there are differences starting with the track point buttons below the space bar. If you have a Model M you can open and compare the cases, that would be safest.

[lot_lizard]

Finally landed from my work trip, and going through all of the emails now. What a wonderful amount of interest... very exciting. I will try to give some metrics about what everyone was interested in as we go (the money part doesn't matter, but I will show the volumes of all the configurations)

... but I really don't think I'll ever do this again. It really is a "non-profit" initiative, and this stuff is a LOT of work. Not trying to put you in an odd spot trying to decide what to do, but trying to be honest.

Never again? Don't make me buy two kits (one as spare)

I shouldn't ever say never, but I would be HIGHLY surprised if we ever do (someone else might use our plans to do it again though?!?). Developing and tinkering is the real fun in all of this. We are trying to prove to ourselves that we can make something new and novel, and this was a baby step to validate that. I really want to see if we can utilize the switch (or hybrid of it) in something unlike we've ever seen. Im confident after all of this that we (the combined talent of the community) can

Winkeys: If I select this option, I would need to cut off the separators on the case between the Ctrl and Alt keys, correct?

If you wanted you utilize the winkeys, you would need to modify the Model M top shell unless you leverage the Unicomp cases that support winkeys. That said, we have never validated this design actually fits Unicomp cases .

Split-Backspace: If I built the keyboard with this option and later changed my mind, could I simply remove the spring from the extra barrel using the "sharpened chopstick" method, or would I also need to remove the flipper, which would require opening up the plates?

You could just remove the spring, but you will need to open up the xWhatsit software and also ignore the key with the removed spring. If you didn't ignore it, the key would register as "held down" since there was no longer a spring to keep the flipper off the PCB.

Split-Right_Shift: Is this an option? (I would want this only if it could result in a 1.75x Right Shift and a 1.00x key to the right of Right Shift).

We certainly could. The PCB and controller would account for it. If it is interesting, add it to the comments and we will add the cost of an extra flipper ($.50). I didn't add it because I assumed it was a rare want. If you think I should add it long term to the spreadsheet form, let me know

By the way - has a team been found to handle the assembly process and shipping, or is that a smaller issue?

I still need to see the numbers here to know if we really need a team yet. I should know within a week or so after having most orders in to know the real percentages. I might call on volunteers yet, but have some locals already that would volunteer to do the mundane parts that would be difficult to do incorrectly.

[DMA]

That said, we have never validated this design actually fits Unicomp cases .

I can easily verify this for you! Just send me the prototype!

[Hypersphere]

Split-Right_Shift: Is this an option? (I would want this only if it could result in a 1.75x Right Shift and a 1.00x key to the right of Right Shift).

We certainly could. The PCB and controller would account for it. If it is interesting, add it to the comments and we will add the cost of an extra flipper ($.50). I didn't add it because I assumed it was a rare want. If you think I should add it long term to the spreadsheet form, let me know.

Yes, I think this would be of interest to those of us who like to use some semblance of a HHKB layout. On a SSK or full-size board, a split Right Shift is even more useful than a split Backspace and/or Win keys (IMO).

Just to double-check with you -- are we indeed talking about a split that results in a 1.75x Right Shift and a 1.00x key to the right (not left) of the Right Shift? If so, this would be great. If it is the other way around, I would not be interested.

[tentator]

a propo "adapters for MX mount key cap", would it be possible to have those in this round to try them out if they're not a complex thing to produce and should be light (no impact on shipping?) and not too expensive per se, right? It would be an interesting addition, people could start to try.

tent:wq

[Techno Trousers]

Just to double-check with you -- are we indeed talking about a split that results in a 1.75x Right Shift and a 1.00x key to the right (not left) of the Right Shift? If so, this would be great. If it is the other way around, I would not be interested.

No, with the standard IBM layout, it would be a 1x key on the left, and a caps-lock or equivalent key on the right. Ellipse made a second type of PCB and plate in the F62/F77 project, to put the 1x key on the right for an HHKB-style layout, but that's outside the scope of this phase 1, at least.

[E TwentyNine]

Given the info above about the Unicomp case, I assume the full size one would fit into an M13 case and use those caps? I have one of these:

Oh, no no no. You do not want to repurpose that board. An Industrial M13 is very rare.

You'd be better off buying a shell from Unicomp ($20 or $30 depending on if you want beige or industrial) and putting the MF in that. And as long as you're paying for shipping from Unicomp, get a new trackpoint and cable (I think $15/ea still) and refurb that board.

Keep it or sell it for a nice chunk of change.

[tentator]

Actually adding trackpoint to this project is also my desire and endgame wish (Model f + Pointstick) but I'll do it on a unicomp board starting from a FEXT pcb.. will see and let you know

[matt3o]

I just wanted to chime in to say that you guys are rockstars and I'm so proud to be part of this community. Really amazing work lot_lizard.

[seebart]

I just wanted to chime in to say that you guys are rockstars and I'm so proud to be part of this community. Really amazing work lot_lizard.

DTA6 is coming up...

[micrex22]

Oh, no no no. You do not want to repurpose that board. An Industrial M13 is very rare.

Rare would be a strong word-- they're made by unicomp and don't feature a real TrackPoint II resulting in poor cursor handling. The least common M13s are the beige ones. (In my opinion) the black Maxiswitch M13s are the best feeling and have a proper TrackPoint / but that's going a little off topic.

I would suggest just getting a regular indusutrial Model M chassis and using that for MF guts. If a TrackPoint is desired, it would probably make sense to hack in a modern one with three buttons. That would require cutting the chassis up a bit...

[E TwentyNine]

Oh, no no no. You do not want to repurpose that board. An Industrial M13 is very rare.

Rare would be a strong word-- they're made by unicomp and don't feature a real TrackPoint II resulting in poor cursor handling.

Incorrect. Some of them are made by Maxiswitch.

The least common M13s are the beige ones. (In my opinion) the black Maxiswitch M13s are the best feeling and have a proper TrackPoint / but that's going a little off topic.

Industrial M13's are less common than the beige ones.

To avoid taking this too far off tangent I believe this has been discussed on DT/GH in prior threads so I'll discontinue here.

[evoman]

Oh, no no no. You do not want to repurpose that board. An Industrial M13 is very rare.

Rare would be a strong word-- they're made by unicomp and don't feature a real TrackPoint II resulting in poor cursor handling.

Incorrect. Some of them are made by Maxiswitch.

The least common M13s are the beige ones. (In my opinion) the black Maxiswitch M13s are the best feeling and have a proper TrackPoint / but that's going a little off topic.

Industrial M13's are less common than the beige ones.

To avoid taking this too far off tangent I believe this has been discussed on DT/GH in prior threads so I'll discontinue here.

In case the info helps (while avoiding getting too far off topic) - this particular type of M13 (made by Unicomp) has one piece keys - I never realized until I just tried to pull some to compare to the IBM made (UK model) that I use as my main keyboard. So I assume it won't work since I cannot pull the caps and reuse them.

(and the comment about the trackpoint is true here - the tracking is not good and so I never managed to use it reliably, and I am someone that has religiously used a trackpoint on a Thinkpad for about 18 years).

[lot_lizard]

this particular type of M13 (made by Unicomp) has one piece keys - I never realized until I just tried to pull some to compare to the IBM made (UK model) that I use as my main keyboard. So I assume it won't work since I cannot pull the caps and reuse them.

There should be no issues using either one-piece or two-piece caps with what we have in place here... would work perfectly well either way. Even if using 2-piece caps, you will want to install both the cap top and keystem portions of the keycap. The only issue that an M13 user might want to account for would be replacement G and H (maybe B... can't remember) caps from Unicomp since your little red "eraser" would be missing until someone figures out a way to adapt these plates to support the integrated mouse

[DMA]

until someone figures out a way to adapt these plates to support the integrated mouse

Would be nice if the PCB didn't contain traces at the point where trackpoint would be. Then it will be possible just to drill thru the plates and bolt the trackpoint to the back of the plates, the way it is on the notebook keyboards. The stem will need to be elongated though.

..this is actually what I'll try to do - restoring row traces if needed. I have about 15 trackpoints laying around - from T400, 410, 420 and 430. Oh, and T43.

[Hypersphere]

Just to double-check with you -- are we indeed talking about a split that results in a 1.75x Right Shift and a 1.00x key to the right (not left) of the Right Shift? If so, this would be great. If it is the other way around, I would not be interested.

No, with the standard IBM layout, it would be a 1x key on the left, and a caps-lock or equivalent key on the right. Ellipse made a second type of PCB and plate in the F62/F77 project, to put the 1x key on the right for an HHKB-style layout, but that's outside the scope of this phase 1, at least.

Thanks for pointing this out.

MyWay.jpg (39.9 KiB) Viewed 9392 times

The split Right Shift would be the wrong way around for my purpose. Therefore, I will leave my original order unchanged.

[czarek]

Quick question, does it fit later Lexmark and Unicomp Model Ms?

[lot_lizard]

Quick question, does it fit later Lexmark and Unicomp Model Ms?

I can't speak to Unicomp because I don't own and haven't tested. The Lexmarks would definitely work. I would be highly surprised if Unicomp altered IBM's original designs in regards to the assembly, but I can't say without question. If someone owned a Unicomp, and was able to validate they were able to swap outer shells with an M, then we would be certain.

[BinaryHalibut]

Actually, something to keep in mind: The late model fixed-cable Lexmarks with the cables off to one edge of the case (the ones with a small control board directly attached to the barrel plate) won't work with the USB insert, and the lock light windows don't line up either. I'd imagine Unicomps are similar to that design, so even if the assembly fits you'll have to get a long USB cable and make it fixed-cable, and the lock lights won't line up (though they might still shine through a bit).

Also just wondering, when is invoicing going to be done?

[lot_lizard]

Also just wondering, when is invoicing going to be done?

It will probably be 5-7 days before I send out PM's and invoices. We had a nice initial turnout ~35 folks hopping in with several picking up more than one kit. I want to make sure everyone filled out the forms right initially before I reach out individually. I will confirm my interpretation of your order before I invoice to make sure we are on the same page.


Also... I didn't include the MF 1u novelty keys in various colors in the form. I will check if there is interest in that with each of you then. Assume $2 a cap.

[lot_lizard]

Actually, something to keep in mind: The late model fixed-cable Lexmarks with the cables off to one edge of the case (the ones with a small control board directly attached to the barrel plate) won't work with the USB insert, and the lock light windows don't line up either. I'd imagine Unicomps are similar to that design, so even if the assembly fits you'll have to get a long USB cable and make it fixed-cable, and the lock lights won't line up (though they might still shine through a bit).

The lock light panel can be moved somewhat currently, but I can certainly increase the tolerance so that it would works if it isn't enough. Do you have specific model numbers you could point me to? Also, for the cable exits, do you have example part numbers there too? I would appreciate. Not saying anything can be done, but I would like to take a peek . I have MANY IBM boards, but the oldest M would be in the very early 90s unfortunately

[Techno Trousers]

Also... I didn't include the MF 1u novelty keys in various colors in the form. I will check if there is interest in that with each of you then. Assume $2 a cap.

Oh my gosh, how could I forget that? I'm in for at least one of each color you'll be offering.

[jorgenslee]

I notice the foam is not included on the kit but only on the individual parts. Do I need to add it separately?

[lot_lizard]

I notice the foam is not included on the kit but only on the individual parts. Do I need to add it separately?

For the kit options, I only included options that you could select to keep it tighter. The foam and fasteners would be included

[jorgenslee]

I notice the foam is not included on the kit but only on the individual parts. Do I need to add it separately?

For the kit options, I only included options that you could select to keep it tighter. The foam and fasteners would be included

Thanks, Just saw it on the description. Silly me too busy with all the options.

[BinaryHalibut]

@lot_lizard posted it in workshop since it got pretty long and isn't 100% relevant here.

[lot_lizard]

@lot_lizard posted it in workshop since it got pretty long and isn't 100% relevant here.

Lovely decision... Thanks much


EDIT: and based on your excellent post in the Workshop, it confirms that it SHOULD fit nicely (minus the USB exit) for the Unicomp as well. This was expected (why would Unicomp with limited resources make a novel assembly backplate?!?). Having said that, there is still risk until we can actually test and confirm