Alps Appreciation

[alh84001]

@Rainman, I'm glad to hear it worked

[Rainman]

Yeah I was really hesitant that I'd end up ordering a new switch and replacing them which would be quite a hassle. Comparing to plate mounted cherry mx switches the option to open the switches, without desoldering, comes kinda handy. I also solved the rattle of stabilized keys by lubing the wires. Now all I need is to find some replacement caps. The current one really suck. They are very very thin.

[Hypersphere]

Thin is not necessarily bad when it comes to keycaps. Fit and finish are more important features, IMO. Some of us (such as Chyros) would also argue that thin caps can enhance the sound of clicky Alps switches, whereas thick caps can have a deadening effect on the sound, but of course different folks have different likes and dislikes.

I also dislike the stock pad-printed black ABS caps that come with the V60MTS boards, but not just because they are thin. The font is unattractive and the fit of the stems in the sliders is much too tight. I also prefer dye-sublimated PBT, although ABS can be okay if the legends are doubleshot and in a decent font.

[Chyros]

Thin is not necessarily bad when it comes to keycaps. Fit and finish are more important features, IMO. Some of us (such as Chyros) would also argue that thin caps can enhance the sound of clicky Alps switches, whereas thick caps can have a deadening effect on the sound, but of course different folks have different likes and dislikes.

Oh yeah man. Sound is an important part of the switches to me, and thin ABS gives the loudest, deepest sound to these switches you can get. With doubleshot lettering they look great, too - hence why I like (old) Tai-Hao doubleshots so much. Great font, too. PBT is obviously more durable, but sounds noticeably more high-pitched, even when thick. Thick ABS also sounds bassy, but as Hyper said, the sound is deadened because of the thickness.

[drevyek]

@Hypersphere: for my paper mod, I used the non-sticky part. I found that as long as the paper was properly sized (I shaved the slice until it juust fit), it stayed in the casing.

If I were to do it with tape, or other adhesive, I'd put the sticky part on the case, for fear of depositing gunk onto the leaf. I'm not sure what the purpose of using adhesive vs not would be. I suppose you could stick it to the backside the leaf with it outside the case, so it is easier to measure. You could also only add the tape to the bottom of the leaf, so to only apply pressure to the bottom of the leaf.

I had done some tests with a few QC's I had around by removing the bottom flaps, but not the top flaps. It resulted in a leaf that clicked on the upstroke, but not the downstroke. I think this is the behaviour that Alps was trying to eliminate when they added the little dimples to the bottom of the tactile leaves. So, using tape only on the bottom of the leaf might very well be a good solution.

I have a few creams left to convert to creamsicles, so I'll try this instead, and compare/contrast.

[Scarpia]

@Lynx_Carpathica: The clicking you are experiencing is due to quantum fluctuations in the space-time continuum. This is Nature's way of telling you that you should be using clicky Alps switches!

Agree. Furthermore, Schröedinger's Cream Alps Theorem (sometimes abbreviated, leading to much confusion and animal cruelty) states that those switches should never be touched.

You may observe Cream Alps from afar, and they will be simultaneously clicky and tactile. The instant you depress that slider, the waveform collapses and the switch will either click .. or it won't.

Make sure youre talking about dampened cream :p The REAL creams should be arriving to you soon for the great switch tour.

Yay! And I've already made room for it in my new Alps switch tester next to the SKCM Brown!

[scottc]

With doubleshot lettering they look great, too - hence why I like (old) Tai-Hao doubleshots so much.

Glad I finally convinced you about the quality of the new Tai-Hao monstrosities. Though honestly the black ones aren't as bad as "Olivette".

[Chyros]

With doubleshot lettering they look great, too - hence why I like (old) Tai-Hao doubleshots so much.

Glad I finally convinced you about the quality of the new Tai-Hao monstrosities. Though honestly the black ones aren't as bad as "Olivette".

Yeah, that was ridiculous, I had no idea they had gotten so bad now xD .

[Lynx_Carpathica]

yup deyar' damped. Ultrasonic cleaning+Kontakt60 for the contactleafs, and PTFE for sliders and housing.
Excellent.

EDIT: Thanks, Chyros for your video on cleaning Alps

EDIT2:

@Lynx_Carpathica: The clicking you are experiencing is due to quantum fluctuations in the space-time continuum. This is Nature's way of telling you that you should be using clicky Alps switches!

A white alps board is on the way here Can't wait, how it feels compared to the Model M.

[Mattr567]

With doubleshot lettering they look great, too - hence why I like (old) Tai-Hao doubleshots so much.

Glad I finally convinced you about the quality of the new Tai-Hao monstrosities. Though honestly the black ones aren't as bad as "Olivette".

What's wrong with Tai Hao's new caps? My Dolch ones look great. They are from the very first batch however from when Massdrop needed a rather large MOQ of like 500 orders for it to even happen at all.

[emdude]

I'd buy Tai-Hao caps if they brought back their vintage doubleshots with RGB modifier legends.

[Chyros]

With doubleshot lettering they look great, too - hence why I like (old) Tai-Hao doubleshots so much.

Glad I finally convinced you about the quality of the new Tai-Hao monstrosities. Though honestly the black ones aren't as bad as "Olivette".

What's wrong with Tai Hao's new caps? My Dolch ones look great. They are from the very first batch however from when Massdrop needed a rather large MOQ of like 500 orders for it to even happen at all.

Scott showed me a board recently with both their old, well-known doubleshots as well as some of their new ones on it. The difference is staggering, the new ones almost look lasered by comparison.

[Mattr567]

Scott showed me a board recently with both their old, well-known doubleshots as well as some of their new ones on it. The difference is staggering, the new ones almost look lasered by comparison.

Here is a comparison between Dolch and a cap from my FK-3001. You can see the outline of the Focus's cap a little more, but that might be down to white being harder to see. I wouldn't call them 'terrible'

How does his cap's compare to mine? Newer batches might be worse.

[alh84001]

Random thought, and I'm at work so I can't check it out - has anyone tried replacing sliders in SKCM blues with damped ones? Or alternatively, click-modding damped switches? I'm curious as how the sound is impacted in clicky switches if they have damped sliders.

[Scarpia]

@alh84001: That's an interesting experiment. If anyone has, or does, I'd love to see a video of it.

In fact, I vote for Chyros doing a Big Alps Swapping Experiment (if you think that sounds naughty you might be a clackneck) video with a bunch of slider swapping of the most common Alps switches.

[Hypersphere]

@alh84001: I have only replaced the slider on the spacebar switch with a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch. I've done this with boards populated with SKCM white or blue Alps. The switch still clicks, but as expected, the down stroke and return stroke are damped. I have not made comparative recordings focusing on this particular mod.

@Chyros:

Here is one of the pics that fohat posted of his silent Dell with Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps:

Dell-Dolch-left.jpg (355.93 KiB) Viewed 5342 times

keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915-840.html
You seemed to have liked it, because you said,

"F***. That looks sleek as S***. I'm not normally too much into the whole keycap thing, but that's one of the most elegant keyboards I've ever seen.

You, sir, have good taste."

[Chyros]

@alh84001: That's an interesting experiment. If anyone has, or does, I'd love to see a video of it.

In fact, I vote for Chyros doing a Big Alps Swapping Experiment (if you think that sounds naughty you might be a clackneck) video with a bunch of slider swapping of the most common Alps switches.

Yeah, I was planning to maybe do a lot fo combination modding on Alps switches. Going to take ages though, so I'll probably only do that if there's enough interest.

@alh84001: I have only replaced the slider on the spacebar switch with a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch. I've done this with boards populated with SKCM white or blue Alps. The switch still clicks, but as expected, the down stroke and return stroke are damped. I have not made comparative recordings focusing on this particular mod.

@Chyros:

Here is one of the pics that fohat posted of his silent Dell with Tai-Hao Dolch keycaps:

Dell-Dolch-left.jpg

keyboards-f2/alps-appreciation-t12915-840.html
You seemed to have liked it, because you said,

"F***. That looks sleek as S***. I'm not normally too much into the whole keycap thing, but that's one of the most elegant keyboards I've ever seen.

You, sir, have good taste."

It is, it's a very elegant colour scheme. Still, the quality in lettering has obviously gone down. Scott, could I poke you to post a picture of said keyboard with the alphas and the enter key showing?

[pabile]

my at101w might not be as smooth as yours, but...

[alh84001]

In fact, I vote for Chyros doing a Big Alps Swapping Experiment

Yeah, I was planning to maybe do a lot fo combination modding on Alps switches. Going to take ages though, so I'll probably only do that if there's enough interest.

I second the motion! You'll end up with no keyboards to review sooner or later, anyway

[Hypersphere]

I thought the legends looked quite sharp on the new Tai-Hao Dolch set, but I do have some visual challenges.

I would be very interested in a Chyros review of Alps combination modding!

[fohat]

I thought the legends looked quite sharp on the new Tai-Hao Dolch set, but I do have some visual challenges.

I would be very interested in a Chyros review of Alps combination modding!

No CapsLock or space bar in the modern set is a real problem.

[paecific.jr]

I just got my first Alps board, Yellows.
Not as smooth as my Hall Effect, but much easier to use with my computer.

[Hypersphere]

@fohat: I get around the problem by using blank black mods and spacebar from Matias. Works perfectly on boards with non-stepped CapsLock and not too bad on stepped CapsLock boards -- the gap doesn't bother me as much as mismatched colors or legends.

@paecific.jr: Which SKCL Yellow Alps board do you have? Mine is a Zenith 163-73 that I recently click-modded.

[Rainman]

Hey guys, anyone know where to buy Tai Hao ALPS? I really can't get past the looks of V60 default caps. MK.com is out of stock (and frankly shipping to EU is enormous).

[Darkshado]

Is there such a thing as a modern, off-the-shelf Matias or Alps-clone ISO TKL board out there? (ANSI users can get the V80MTS, but no ISO variant that I could find.)

Oh, and thanks @drevyek for the paper mod hint. I have the same issue as Lynx_Carpathica with some switches clicking and others not. (I have yet to try the mod, but it sounds promising.)

[Lynx_Carpathica]

I've been using a Lexmark Model M for at least 4 months.
Now, I'm trying to get used to Ivory ulps...
They're unsuprisingly - very light compared to the Model M xDDDD
I can't even avoid bottoming out right now.

Darkshado: I'll do the mod when I'm gonna have affinity to disassembly the switches for the 4th time xDDD

[Chyros]

I've been using a Lexmark Model M for at least 4 months.
Now, I'm trying to get used to Ivory ulps...
They're unsuprisingly - very light compared to the Model M xDDDD
I can't even avoid bottoming out right now.

Darkshado: I'll do the mod when I'm gonna have affinity to disassembly the switches for the 4th time xDDD

They're not that light - 70 gf. Same actuation force as buckling springs. But they have a quite strong tactility, so they shoot down more after the tactile bump.

[Hypersphere]

@Rainman: Clueboard had WoB Tai-Hao sets the last time I looked. Sets also show up from time to time on eBay.

@Lynx_Carpathica: Why avoid bottoming out? Might as well go for the full ride all the way down!

[fohat]

Today I finished an "endgame level" project that I have been contemplating for quite some time, and I did not end up doing exactly what I had originally planned.

A couple of years ago I transplanted blue Alps into a Northgate Omnikey 101 and it turned out really well. There were a couple of failed attempts on the way there, due to low-grade soldering skills and equipment, and I ended up trashing a couple of them in the process. That made for a great keyboard but perhaps less than perfect because the switches and caps did have a bit of wear and my soldering is not impeccable.

So, a few months ago, I got a great Omnikey 101 on ebay that is probably new, although it was sold as "used". It came from a gaming store and I suspect that it was only ever used little or none - it was immaculately clean throughout with no sign of use or wear whatsoever. The only problem was that there were odd stickers on about a dozen keys that were very difficult to remove.

I had a large collection of orange Alps in good condition which I cleaned ultrasonically and lubed with dry Teflon spray with the intention of doing a "creamsicle" (great name, whoever made that up) type mod from the top. But as I looked at the pieces that I had in front of me, I saw a pile of white sliders and top housings that were essentially new. So, rather than use the orange sliders that I had cleaned and lubed, I used only the tactile leaves and springs from the oranges and the near-new white sliders and housings.

I lubed the white sliders with light Krytox and a small paint brush, sparingly, only on the sides, and put them back together with out doing any soldering or any other "destructive" modifications to the original assembly.

So far, without long-term evaluation, this is a magnificent keyboard and immediately moves to the highest level of my personal pantheon.

I will report back later if it drops in its position.

[Hypersphere]

Here's one of my Northgate Omnikey 101 boards on the operating table after replacing the top housings, springs, and sliders with the corresponding parts from Orange Alps switches.

omni101_white-orange1.jpg (281.87 KiB) Viewed 5141 times

This Omni was a later model that had Bamboo switches. My motivation for this top mod was to reduce the rattle of the Bamboo switches and to make them slightly lighter. Orange Alps have Pine top housings and reportedly a lighter spring, although I have not tested the spring weight myself.

NG_White-Orange_25a.jpg (267.81 KiB) Viewed 5141 times

After the surgery, the board was quieter and felt lighter. Plus, I like the look of the orange sliders. It seems a pity to cover them with keycaps. Maybe I'll learn to type on the bare sliders.