(Model MF) Remodeling the Model M (aka.. the Mara)

[Wodan]

Chop it!!!

[lot_lizard]

Really can't say enough how appreciative we are of the votes. This really will be a year I never forget. I tinker with several little engineering hobbies with some fun results, but haven't ever shared those with others (been selfish). This is not only the end result, but to make something socially with others from the beginning... It's just been a special experience to me. So many good friendships and contributions, and when these do arrive to your door... I promise you will be happy you were on the ride with everyone. It really does transform the "presence" of the M.

With these Wingnuts... we will finally have a REAL use for these Cherry MX BS adapters as well

Don't chop it. Send it on a tour between yourselfs.

That is exactly what will happen.

[E TwentyNine]

Cindy's plastic contact will be tied up today, so we will regroup with him another time. The real net of our discussion is to find out how much of the process for the mold generation we can do ourselves. Almost 100% of the time, these folks like you to have either the part they are producing (or better yet the plans for it), and then they create the inverted STEP for the CNC to generate the molds based on the specs of the press they will be using. This is the real expense in the mold making process (programming the CNC).

I could swear I've seen either the SSK or 101 M case full modeled somewhere. Suspect whatever format could be converted to what they need.

[002]

For some reason I had it in my head that our good friend M'er Forever modelled the SSK but it turns out his was a completely original design: keyboards-f2/a-proposal-for-a-new-ssk-t6977.html

Because of his epic meltdown though, all info (aside from attachments) is lost.

[Techno Trousers]

That's pretty interesting. I'd have to double check, but isn't that rendered angle pretty much what the SSK would be with the feet extended? I for one wouldn't want that steep angle baked into the design. I got used to using all my keyboards as flat as possible after researching RSI.

[lot_lizard]

For some reason I had it in my head that our good friend M'er Forever modelled the SSK but it turns out his was a completely original design: keyboards-f2/a-proposal-for-a-new-ssk-t6977.html

Because of his epic meltdown though, all info (aside from attachments) is lost.

I only remember those as renders. Did he actually ever provide CAD plans? It would be very interesting to evaluate them.


And yes... That "epic meltdown" was a shit show for sure. Shame. His work was promising had potential

[livingspeedbump]

For some reason I had it in my head that our good friend M'er Forever modelled the SSK but it turns out his was a completely original design: keyboards-f2/a-proposal-for-a-new-ssk-t6977.html

Because of his epic meltdown though, all info (aside from attachments) is lost.

I did love the look of that case. Always reminded of the Realforce a bit. Very clean looking. The mint color one was naturally my favorite.

If it turns out we can get relatively cheap plastic cases that are the same or nearly identical the the existing cases, I think having a metal case that is a bit different would be nice. A design that wouldn't push costs to excessive heights would also be stellar.

[micrex22]

I was thinking it over and I may try creating a 'Model MM' instead of a regular MF with the second MF assembly and inserting M flippers and the M membrane and rubber mat. As F barrels will be used I would have a bunch of leftover F flippers. I also want to do a spring swap so that the M flippers sport the re-manufactured "F" springs to see how well that changes the feeling.

And of course it could be swapped to MF easily if MM doesn't turn out to be all that great. Just an idea.

[lot_lizard]

And of course it could be swapped to MF easily if MM doesn't turn out to be all that great. Just an idea.

Let the tinkering commence . Certainly a valid experiment.

I am hoping too that as a collective we play more with different spring configurations. What happens if 1/8 of the spring has heat shrink tubing at some strategic spot, or apply some 3mm long rubber insert within, etc?!? Floss mods have some promise if done "right", but there has to be a better medium. I personally think that's the next big breakthrough for this switch that I hope people are more inclined to try now since the disassembly process will be less taxing

[micrex22]

And of course it could be swapped to MF easily if MM doesn't turn out to be all that great. Just an idea.

Let the tinkering commence . Certainly a valid experiment.

I am hoping too that as a collective we play more with different spring configurations. What happens if 1/8 of the spring has heat shrink tubing at some strategic spot, or apply some 3mm long rubber insert within, etc?!? Floss mods have some promise if done "right", but there has to be a better medium. I personally think that's the next big breakthrough for this switch that I hope people are more inclined to try now since the disassembly process will be less taxing

Fortunately I'm a fan of the noise (perhaps it helps that I wear over-the-ear headphones which dampen outside sounds); and would actually love it if there were counter-intuitive mods to make the F assembly even louder, particularly the springs themselves. One of my favourite aspects of the F 122 is how the springs can get some impressive singing going, especially if the assembly is a bit loose. There is definitely a science behind getting the tension proper for a crispness vs. resonance ratio.

[lot_lizard]

hahaha... love the meme. No one is saying that these tweaks should be quieter mind you. The experiments are, to borrow DMA's term, "for the sake of science!!!". Maybe we should make metal barrels to really make a proper "clank"?!?

[micrex22]

hahaha... love the meme. No one is saying that these tweaks should be quieter mind you. The experiments are, to borrow DMA's term, "for the sake of science!!!". Maybe we should make metal barrels to really make a proper "clank"?!?

Metal barrels with mandatory lubricant would be pretty funny. The only risk would be if the lubricant wears out or disperses the springs would be experiencing a fair bit of friction. Do you think it would make more sense at that point to create a whole top assembly pre-curved with barrels milled out in the top piece itself? I imagine that would be expensive.

Is anyone going to test different barrel lubricant candidates? I've dabbled in it briefly for fans, but not for keyboards. I just use general purpose oil for most things.

[lot_lizard]

Is anyone going to test different barrel lubricant candidates? I've dabbled in it briefly for fans, but not for keyboards. I just use general purpose oil for most things.

I played with a small number. They need to be be dry lubes to not risk dripping onto the PCB/flipper paddle (only a few choices that aren't "gunky"). PTFE/Teflon really did work as well as any. It will be what I lube all of the barrels (~8k) for the MF project, and is in large supply at a reasonable cost. These will only be the barrels though. I would advise doing the same on the key stems. It really is a pretty noticeable difference.


EDIT: I hope others try with other lubes though for sure... just make sure they are dry lubes

[Ir0n]

Could you hook up a solenoid in one of these? Lol
Does the controller have a spot for one?

[POTV]

Quick question. The USB-B connection, we are getting, is it the orange version:

IMG_5717.jpg (40.84 KiB) Viewed 5026 times

Or the black:

IMG_5718.jpg (59.23 KiB) Viewed 5026 times

[andrewjoy]

I am guessing the top one , the bottom one is USB3 B, not very common and no point using it unless your device is USB3

[POTV]

Thanks, andrewjoy

[lot_lizard]

Could you hook up a solenoid in one of these? Lol
Does the controller have a spot for one?

Indeed... it does. In the SSK case the fit is not ideal, but the full size M has multiple mounting options.

[POTV]

@lot_lizard - I hare ordered both C and B for my SSK´s. Which of them do you recommend for that purpose regarding space in the cabinets and fitting?

[lot_lizard]

@lot_lizard - I hare ordered both C and B for my SSK´s. Which of them do you recommend for that purpose regarding space in the cabinets and fitting?

Neither would have more impact on space inside in shell (at least not a difference worth noting). Really becomes a "Chevy vs. Ford" discussion. I like both for various reasons. You would have to turn the board as a USB hub (add your own external ports to the shell), and have some heavy bandwidth devices hooked up through it before the USB-C at 3.0 would become actually more ideal. Otherwise just a cable/connector preference.

[POTV]

Thanks, lot_lizard - I guess the B is a bit more sturdy too...

[fohat]

Floss mods have some promise if done "right", but there has to be a better medium.

I have done a number of floss mods and it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Also, it can be done "from the top" without any disassembly.

The wispy "Superfloss" seems to be a good combination of effectiveness with minimal impact on the feel of the stroke.

Melvang has used a single strand from the interior of parachute cord and likes it, but I have not tried that.
Being thinner and denser but more massive than the floss, it might be a better alternative. And probably easier to install.

To increase the sound, you might take off the case and use it "naked" and put something rigid under it to act as a sounding board.

[DMA]

hahaha... love the meme. No one is saying that these tweaks should be quieter mind you. The experiments are, to borrow DMA's term, "for the sake of science!!!". Maybe we should make metal barrels to really make a proper "clank"?!?

It's not "science!!!" - it's "!!science!!"

There is a subtle difference. Namely - lots of burning is involved, and the result is usually Fun.

The meme is, indeed, great. What's the source?

[micrex22]

Could you hook up a solenoid in one of these? Lol
Does the controller have a spot for one?

Indeed... it does. In the SSK case the fit is not ideal, but the full size M has multiple mounting options.

Oh really?
I thought the solenoid pinout was omitted. In that case, my primary iMFSSK will be given a solenoid.

It's not "science!!!" - it's "!!science!!"

There is a subtle difference. Namely - lots of burning is involved, and the result is usually Fun.

The meme is, indeed, great. What's the source?

It came from the Emperor's New Groove (I watched it when it came out on VHS when I was a kid )

[lot_lizard]

I don't think I've ever posted a side by side of the two mini xWhatsit controllers. They are certainly different (both dandy). The bottom is what Ellipse is using for the 4704 project. The top is for the MF (just the slab bar minus the fun stuff). The profiles are slightly different since we are using the solderless connectors to the PCB, and our USB and solenoid pins are together on the top edge (pin outs in both cases because our USB female port lives on the daughter board). Hope this help to see better. I should have posted before now

IMG_0076.JPG (1.24 MiB) Viewed 4936 times

[E TwentyNine]

For my sanity, I had to make a minor adjustment to the MF one:

[DMA]

It came from the Emperor's New Groove (I watched it when it came out on VHS when I was a kid )

Y2K? Isn't it a bit too late for VHS?

But yeah, completely missed that one, watching now.

[tentator]

so could we really add a solenoid on a ssk and control it?
would you be able to source solenoids? ))))

[lot_lizard]

so could we really add a solenoid on a ssk and control it?
would you be able to source solenoids? ))))

Right... You will. But we won't be able to come up with solenoids in time for the GB shipment. I've sent a few of the spares I had out to members in the community to eventually talk about recreating some flavor of one (hopefully better actually... the legacy one has speed limitations). We will start a thread on those experiments some time, but hasn't occurred this far. Someday though... Upside, you'll be ready if that pans out.

Ellipse might be doing something there in this space too (no idea), but makes sense given the controller he is using has that ability as well. Only one of us should mess with it in an ideal world given the time required, low cost, and limited numbers that it would be desired (500 maybe?!?). Before we start tinkering, I'll reach out to him

[DMA]

I don't think I've ever posted a side by side of the two mini xWhatsit controllers. They are certainly different (both dandy). The bottom is what Ellipse is using for the 4704 project. The top is for the MF (just the slab bar minus the fun stuff). The profiles are slightly different since we are using the solderless connectors to the PCB, and our USB and solenoid pins are together on the top edge (pin outs in both cases because our USB female port lives on the daughter board). Hope this help to see better. I should have posted before now

IMG_0076.JPG

why the components are placed at such odd angles? Is it.. *gasp* hand-soldered??
Update: why there are screw holes in there? I thought it would just hang from the connector, won't it?