A new US Republican thread 2016

[fohat]

Both parties are nearly hopeless and irreconcilable coalitions that should/would/could hardly even exist, except for the fact that the US has been locked in a rigid 2-party system practically since the beginning.

What is truly fascinating is looking at the Republican and Democratic parties 150 years ago and seeing how each has rotated 180 degrees since then, like the magnetic poles of the Earth reversing. There were half a dozen defining "clicks" as the system ratcheted around, with the 2 Roosevelts sheparding in major shifts of their respective parties.

The "elites" of both parties can be rightfully accused of being insensitive to the real concerns of the lower classes, but while the Democrats genuinely pity them and are willing to throw them some meaningful bones, the Republicans almost relish in inflicting truly egregious punishments on them by making ridiculous promises on the surface while using their votes to enact policies that suck them dry from behind.

The true needs of poor whites and poor non-whites are basically identical, but the parties have succeeded in splitting them apart using "social" issues as the wedges, and while "The Right" has managed to energize its lower-class base to vote enthusiastically, "The Left" has failed to convince its corresponding base that their engagement can make a difference.

Personally, I see 2 groups of people whose fundamental social philosophies are diametrically opposed: those who desire a world of justice and peace, and those who desire personal gain without regard to the consequences on others. I further believe that our focus should remain on economic justice, and that if this goal is achieved, then social problems will begin to evaporate.

As Steven Pinker postulated it in "The Better Angels of Our Nature":
The Escalator of Reason – an "intensifying application of knowledge and rationality to human affairs," which "can force people to recognize the futility of cycles of violence, to ramp down the privileging of their own interests over others', and to reframe violence as a problem to be solved rather than a contest to be won."

For that I am terrified of the consolidation of the media into a small cabal of profit-driven blocs, and the public's disengagement from meaningful social discourse and understanding.

And the explosion of "fake news" on the internet has exacerbated the problem by an order of magnitude.

[vivalarevolución]

They are both racists. The democrats are racists too, bombing weddings, causing many deaths of innocents, and their fans keep voting for that, looking the other way. Because the lives of those innocent people is inferior and not important for them. And they love the super stasi, just like the republicans, and keep voting for that. The mind boggles that they dare to proceed and keep up this morally superior stance while pointing fingers. They are the dark as well.
Exactly... In fact, it's officially off the table. Pulling on this in tests right now, if you manage to wreck this triomate only mount, you need to find a new hobby. Along with pan heads securing the PCB ground on the 2 unneeded tensions, I'll make all 4 grounded, with the 2 tensions using short standoffs. The standoff will act as the pan head in the previous diagram.

lot_lizard▼
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deskthority▼

What if Russia is looking for terrorists, thinks some are in the US, and proceeds to bomb to hell out of your cities? Is it ok?

What if China thinks you have some nice oil, invades the US and overthrows your government, to be replaced by their men. The US way.

The last thing you could do, is complain.

It's called being a brainwashed or clueless American that is completely unaware of the damage that our imperialist ventures and very powerful military-industrial complex has done to other corners of this world. Any other country that does the crap we do, we would shame them, like we are doing with Russia in Aleppo (despite we currently sponsoring a slow moving invasion of Mosul that already has resulted in thousands of civilian and military deaths). In fact, ISIS, Russia, and the USA probably are the current world leaders in killing citizens of other countries. If you decided to publicly speak out about this idea, actually care about the lives of people in other countries, identify a pacifist or anti-war, you will be shamed and brushed aside as a crazy kook, called a pansy, whatever. Look what happened to Bernie Sanders, the most honest and peace-loving almost president in recent memory.

A variety of systems have effectively brainwashed the majority of the American population into thinking it is okay for us to kill innocent civilians in other countries, and there is no need for the government to crush rebellion in this country. Our government has mastered the art of outsourcing our wars to far away countries in which we do not witness the effects of these wars. We had the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, Sept 11. All very tragic, no doubt. Never again, we said. We instead decided to focus on sponsoring dictators and sparking countless civil wars across the world, a few of which are still ongoing. Meanwhile at home, the general population gets in literal (gang warfare) and figurative (politics, culture) fights with each other, has one of the worst gun violence problems in the industrialized world, and creates such a huge demand for narcotics that various countries south of the border are essentially engaged in civil war in attempts to supply the insatiable appetite of Americans for drugs. I wonder how much safer those countries would be if Americans were not so addicted to drugs.

War and drugs are good business, though, and the people that profit and gain from it often don't suffer the consequences of the destruction.

If I say something like this to many Americans, I might be rebuffed that I hate America and I should be proud of the soldiers fighting for our freedom (or something along those lines). I personally will not apologize for taking a different viewpoint than what we are taught to believe in this country, for pointing out obvious hypocrisy. I respect the young people that decide to join the military, because they might actually believe in the commonly held beliefs about the role of the US military, it does represent an expansive career choice, and is one of the few good career options for young people from economically depressed areas (despite the fact that a government can create millions of lower cost jobs that are not centered around foreign military ventures and can bring measurable domestic improvements, but we would call that socialism). Members of military do a lot of good for themselves and others they may help.

What I don't like are the many old men and few women that send our young people to die, command them to drop bombs and shoot the innocent citizens of other countries then brush it out as collateral damage, don't suffer the consequences of their decisions, and live lives insulated from the destruction they cause. They should be in jail.

It is done under the guise of protecting our freedom and making us safe, while taking away the freedom of other countries and our own citizens. Our country is far from the safest and freest in the world, by the way, despite having the most expensive military in the history of humanity. However, we are statistically safer than most of the countries in the Western Hemisphere. The most likely cause of violence in the Western Hemisphere is the lingering effects from historical legacy of colonization and destruction of cultures. It takes a long time to recover from such culture shock.

But we have our electronic devices, our Internet, our relative safety and comfort here. No need to put up much of an internal fight or even bother to know what countries we currently are bombing (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, and Pakistan last time I checked).

Alas, that is my country. It isn't perfect, and no place is. Some things trouble me more than others. At least I have the freedom of speech to write this, but there is the possibility that I may not have that freedom in the future, and it most likely will be silenced by my own citizens and government, not a Muslim on the other side of the world.

[Kurplop]

The most likely cause of violence in the Western Hemisphere is the lingering effects from historical legacy of colonization and destruction of cultures. It takes a long time to recover from such culture shock.

Viva, could you elaborate on your statement. I'm very interested in your perspective.

[jacobolus]

US Congress is going back up for sale in a big way, GOP want to return to the heady days of the early 2000s and their non-stop stream of corruption scandals: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/bac ... tion-house

See also http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/po ... .html?_r=1

[jacobolus]

P.S. In case anyone thought Republicans used to be more responsible (hah), there’s recently better proof of Nixon treasonously disrupting the Vietnam peace process during the 1968 elections in flagrant violation of the law: http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/po ... -show.html

[vivalarevolución]

The most likely cause of violence in the Western Hemisphere is the lingering effects from historical legacy of colonization and destruction of cultures. It takes a long time to recover from such culture shock.

Viva, could you elaborate on your statement. I'm very interested in your perspective.

I started writing something, but then I took a break from the forums this weekend. The claim that I made is somewhat tenuous, but from what I understand, legacies of colonization and systematic oppression have effects that are passed down through the generations and lead to other ills. This does not excuse us from our personal responsibility as human beings, but when a person has a bigger hill to climb and experiences greater hardship, often it is harder to become a thriving adult.

[chuckdee]

The most likely cause of violence in the Western Hemisphere is the lingering effects from historical legacy of colonization and destruction of cultures. It takes a long time to recover from such culture shock.

Viva, could you elaborate on your statement. I'm very interested in your perspective.

I started writing something, but then I took a break from the forums this weekend. The claim that I made is somewhat tenuous, but from what I understand, legacies of colonization and systematic oppression have effects that are passed down through the generations and lead to other ills. This does not excuse us from our personal responsibility as human beings, but when a person has a bigger hill to climb and experiences greater hardship, often it is harder to become a thriving adult.

I'd totally agree with your statements, and my own views on this issue are:
We can (and do) create our own lives, and share a responsibility in the results of our own actions. However, our own history, and the history of our own culture (racial, regional, and national) does place some controls on our results.

Many people choose to ignore this, or call it spurious, but I'd vehemently disagree.

[vivalarevolución]

I started writing something, but then I took a break from the forums this weekend. The claim that I made is somewhat tenuous, but from what I understand, legacies of colonization and systematic oppression have effects that are passed down through the generations and lead to other ills. This does not excuse us from our personal responsibility as human beings, but when a person has a bigger hill to climb and experiences greater hardship, often it is harder to become a thriving adult.

I'd totally agree with your statements, and my own views on this issue are:
We can (and do) create our own lives, and share a responsibility in the results of our own actions. However, our own history, and the history of our own culture (racial, regional, and national) does place some controls on our results.

Many people choose to ignore this, or call it spurious, but I'd vehemently disagree.

This is a much more eloquent way of communicating what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[vivalarevolución]

US Congress is going back up for sale in a big way, GOP want to return to the heady days of the early 2000s and their non-stop stream of corruption scandals: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/bac ... tion-house

See also http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/po ... .html?_r=1

So they put the brakes on this Ethics nonsense after Trump's tweet.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm willing to consider the possibility that this was a planned stunt to make Trump look like the good guy.

[jacobolus]

Trump’s tweet had little to do with it. They backed off because it was front page news on every credible newspaper, and they started getting a barrage of calls from constituents. The timing and optics here were terrible. No doubt they’ll figure out another way to avoid any ethics oversight later once there’s no spotlight on it.

[n__dles]

Spoiler:

It's called being a brainwashed or clueless American that is completely unaware of the damage that our imperialist ventures and very powerful military-industrial complex has done to other corners of this world. Any other country that does the crap we do, we would shame them, like we are doing with Russia in Aleppo (despite we currently sponsoring a slow moving invasion of Mosul that already has resulted in thousands of civilian and military deaths). In fact, ISIS, Russia, and the USA probably are the current world leaders in killing citizens of other countries. If you decided to publicly speak out about this idea, actually care about the lives of people in other countries, identify a pacifist or anti-war, you will be shamed and brushed aside as a crazy kook, called a pansy, whatever. Look what happened to Bernie Sanders, the most honest and peace-loving almost president in recent memory.

A variety of systems have effectively brainwashed the majority of the American population into thinking it is okay for us to kill innocent civilians in other countries, and there is no need for the government to crush rebellion in this country. Our government has mastered the art of outsourcing our wars to far away countries in which we do not witness the effects of these wars. We had the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, Sept 11. All very tragic, no doubt. Never again, we said. We instead decided to focus on sponsoring dictators and sparking countless civil wars across the world, a few of which are still ongoing. Meanwhile at home, the general population gets in literal (gang warfare) and figurative (politics, culture) fights with each other, has one of the worst gun violence problems in the industrialized world, and creates such a huge demand for narcotics that various countries south of the border are essentially engaged in civil war in attempts to supply the insatiable appetite of Americans for drugs. I wonder how much safer those countries would be if Americans were not so addicted to drugs.

War and drugs are good business, though, and the people that profit and gain from it often don't suffer the consequences of the destruction.

If I say something like this to many Americans, I might be rebuffed that I hate America and I should be proud of the soldiers fighting for our freedom (or something along those lines). I personally will not apologize for taking a different viewpoint than what we are taught to believe in this country, for pointing out obvious hypocrisy. I respect the young people that decide to join the military, because they might actually believe in the commonly held beliefs about the role of the US military, it does represent an expansive career choice, and is one of the few good career options for young people from economically depressed areas (despite the fact that a government can create millions of lower cost jobs that are not centered around foreign military ventures and can bring measurable domestic improvements, but we would call that socialism). Members of military do a lot of good for themselves and others they may help.

What I don't like are the many old men and few women that send our young people to die, command them to drop bombs and shoot the innocent citizens of other countries then brush it out as collateral damage, don't suffer the consequences of their decisions, and live lives insulated from the destruction they cause. They should be in jail.

It is done under the guise of protecting our freedom and making us safe, while taking away the freedom of other countries and our own citizens. Our country is far from the safest and freest in the world, by the way, despite having the most expensive military in the history of humanity. However, we are statistically safer than most of the countries in the Western Hemisphere. The most likely cause of violence in the Western Hemisphere is the lingering effects from historical legacy of colonization and destruction of cultures. It takes a long time to recover from such culture shock.

But we have our electronic devices, our Internet, our relative safety and comfort here. No need to put up much of an internal fight or even bother to know what countries we currently are bombing (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, and Pakistan last time I checked).

Alas, that is my country. It isn't perfect, and no place is. Some things trouble me more than others. At least I have the freedom of speech to write this, but there is the possibility that I may not have that freedom in the future, and it most likely will be silenced by my own citizens and government, not a Muslim on the other side of the world.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, I think you might have oversimplified and put more responsibility on the US than it actually bares.

If Americans stopped consuming, or had never consumed drugs, the problems in Latin America wouldn't disappear. They're the consequence of weak rule of law and a poor economy. Does US drug consumption inflame the problem, sure. Look at the Congo (btw what the Belgians did there is horrific), natives enslave other natives, guerillas run around raping, pillaging, chopping off body parts.. just about every human rights violation under the sun. That's mainly over coltan mining. You wouldn't suggest we should abandon electronics (or maybe you would, idk).

No need to put up much of an internal fight or even bother to know what countries we currently are bombing (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, and Pakistan last time I checked).

I'm not sure of Somalian, Libyan or Pakistani/Indian history. But, the other countries listed have been in conflict almost continuously since Moses was in short pants. America has influenced in the last century (or really since WW2) for sure. But the tribal lines and dynamics have been in play for much longer.

Realistically, the US, while imperfect, is probably the lesser of the evil hegemony out of the other options: Former Soviet Union/Russia and China. Also at times I think we fail to realize that any outside powers hands are somewhat tied. "The US supported tyrant X." Maybe out of all the leaders who had a chance of ruling that country, tyrant X was a lamb compared to tyrant Y and Z.

This isn't to say that the US shouldn't be held accountable. Just that laying all the blame on a single party, in any complex scenario, is usually an oversimplification.

[vivalarevolución]

I can admit my argument has weaknesses and what you said certainly is worth consideration. The nature of message board discussion lends itself to oversimplification and ignoring some of the influential factors and the occasional rant. We aren't going to sit here and share historical volumes or discuss our latest research or analyze reams of data. Mostly just sharing offhand opinions for our own expression, enjoyment, and leisure.

I imagine that a citizen of China or Russia might feel they are the lesser of all the evils. My main beef is that countries like the USA or Russia use shaky justifications to interfere in the politics of other sovereign nations and somehow justify the deaths of civilians in these countries while being appalled if the same situation happens at home or if one of their political rivals did the same. It's essentially the same act committed by different parties. And if you have personally been affected by the bullets or bombs from another country's military or caught in the middle of a proxy war, you might feel very differently about these situations.

And I've lived without electronics, it's not that bad. Actually creates stronger social bonds and could make us happier. But I won't say we should live without them, that's insane in today's world.

[n__dles]

I imagine that a citizen of China or Russia might feel they are the lesser of all the evils.

They might, although it would probably be an outlying view. China's got it's whole pseudo-facism thing, and Russia's involvement in Syria is apparently just to flex it's muscle and show that it's 'still got it.' Apparently the Russian public eats it up. They think we have no balls.

Objectively their record of human rights violations both at home and abroad are signifigantly worse than the US's. China has mobile execution vans and capital punishment crimes include: bribery, smuggling cultural relics, even for recidivists committing petty crimes. From conviction to execution can be as little as 7 days. They both, and Russia most notably in recent years, annex other countries. One of Russia's fav. pastimes is whacking out political dissidents and journalists, sometimes with RADIATION.

Our country is far from the safest and freest in the world...

At least I have the freedom of speech to write this, but there is the possibility that I may not have that freedom in the future, and it most likely will be silenced by my own citizens and government, not a Muslim on the other side of the world.

You're being melodramatic. Obviously it's a country's government (or occupying force) that write and enforce it's speech laws, not someone on the other side of the world. If you were hinting at the terrors of the coming Trump presidency, have no fear. Trump of all people, and for that matter Republicans, aren't going anywhere near Freedom of Speech. If anyone, it will be progressives that will go after your Freedom of Speech as has been done in other countries already (Canada is the latest).

"So, yes, the United States is a very free country, in fact it’s the freest country in the world. I don’t think freedom of speech, for example, is protected anywhere in the world as much as it is here." - Noam Chomsky

He's pretty far to the left.

My main beef is that countries like the USA or Russia use shaky justifications to interfere in the politics of other sovereign nations and somehow justify the deaths of civilians in these countries while being appalled if the same situation happens at home or if one of their political rivals did the same.

That's the way the world works. Sovereign soil and citizens have priority. That's why there was a big kerfuffle (and rightfully so) when al-Awlaki was killed. Again, this isn't just the US, this is all countries. Whatever your dream country is, you have less rights and are of less importance than it's citizens.

And if you have personally been affected by the bullets or bombs from another country's military or caught in the middle of a proxy war, you might feel very differently about these situations.

Well the Vietnamese were caught in our proxy war and a lot of them have come here. Many people from MENA countries, and Muslims specifically, think that America is the bees knees. Might be a shock for you, but many Muslims think that the US is the best country for Muslims to live in. "In the U.S., Muslim immigrants tended to be part of the professional class, with many doctors, lawyers and engineers... In Europe, Muslims are predominately working class." Looks like the American Dream might actually be a thing!

It's good that so many Americans aren't complacent and are vocal about what they see as injustices. That helps to keep the government in check. The US keeps other states in check too. When America is no longer the superpower, another country will fill that void. At best they will behave marginally better than the US. At worst they will summarily execute with impunity. It's not like it hasn't happened before (or even recently).

[jacobolus]

Haha.


McConnell is such a hypocritical dipshit.

[jacobolus]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... be-delayed

Completion of the ethics review process prior to Senate confirmation hearings ensures that all parties have a detailed understanding of the nominee’s commitments prior to taking office, offers full transparency to the Senate, and mitigates the opportunity for undue influence on the independent ethics review process.

Some of President-elect Trump’s nominees have completed this process, but many have not.

For example, as of now, no such ethics certification or representation exists for Betsy DeVos, President-elect Trump’s nominee for secretary of education. While a billionaire should not be held to any higher ethical standard than other nominees, she should not be (nor should she want to be) held to lower ethical standards.

DeVos likely has potential conflicts of interest with respect to education. She reportedly invested in K12 Inc, which manages public for-profit online charter schools, and indirectly invested in an online student lending firm. In 2011, the New York Times chronicled the failings of one of the schools managed by K12 Inc, which had nearly 60% of its students behind grade level in math and 50% behind in reading. Whether and to what extent DeVos and/or her husband still invests in these companies is significant for conflicts of interest purposes.

However, there is no public disclosure of these or other any investments in the information included in her Senate nomination paperwork that has been made publicly available. To the contrary, in the public portion of her Senate paperwork, she did not provide detailed information in response to a request for information regarding business relationships, dealings or financial transactions that would constitute a potential conflict of interest.

In lieu of doing so, she represents that she will consult with the OGE and the agency ethics office to identify potential conflicts of interest and to resolve them in accordance with the terms of an ethics agreement that she will enter into but that apparently has not yet entered into.

The notion that DeVos will be questioned before entering into an ethics agreement and disclosing it along with her financial holdings is absurd. Senators, and all of us, cannot address these and other conflicts without that information. We cannot help but wonder if the fact that she has been a major campaign contributor has led to the unseemly rush to give her a premature hearing. She and her spouse are reported by OpenSecrets to have made $2.7m in donations in the 2016 election cycle, and to have contributed more than $7.7m to federal candidates, committees and parties since 1990.

At this point in 2009, the Obama administration had ensured that its cabinet nominees completed their nomination paperwork, including an OGE-certified 278 and a signed ethics agreement, at least three days in advance of confirmation hearings (and for many over a week in advance). This is the standard to which each new administration should be held if they want to give credibility to the Senate advice and consent process.

[jacobolus]

Of course, as an institution, the Republican party no longer believes in the concept of “ethics”. That is, not only does the GOP reject any particular ethical standards, it has come to espouse rejection of the very notion that we should have ethical standards at all.

So it’s no problem to elect a man who has sexually assaulted dozens if not hundreds of women, and brags about it. Or who openly plans to turn the USA into a tool for either bribing or bullying his business partners, rivals, and clients for his own profit, or who is deeply in debt to foreign states (notably Putin-friendly Russian oligarchs). Or who has a life-long history of cheating and stealing from everyone he interacts with, lies pathologically, and has never once kept a promise. “Who cares if I threw sand in that child’s eyes and then stole her lunch money. If she wanted lunch she should have brought a bodyguard.”

And if his nominees have numerous ethical conflicts, shady financial dealings, or whatever other skeletons in their closets, the best thing is to just sweep it all under the rug and ram them through ASAP, and just hope nobody notices.

[fohat]

ram them through ASAP

His technique all along has been to scattergun moving targets all over the field so that is impossible to even bring focus onto even a small percentage of them.

[jacobolus]

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-putin-rus ... ing-541302

[jacobolus]

Oh hey, turns out Trump’s Labor secretary nominee, besides running a worker-abusing fast food chain, was also a wife beater. Fun times. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/r ... stic-abuse

Should get along well with wife-rapist Trump.

[seebart]

Not trying to sound dissembling but all I can say is that I thoroughly enjoyed Trumps press conference today. Quite intense to say the least.I love how they stacked those documents on that table, I wonder who had that idea?!?

[webwit]

Great show USA, keep it up.

All these conspiracy theories, and no proof. This leads to the following: All of it is true, and Trump is a puppet of Putin (fascist pigs). Or, it's false, and the Obama clan is producing crazy fake news as a shit attempt to hold on the power (fascist pigs). Thank you, it has been and will be entertaining.

[fohat]

Trump is a puppet of Putin

Putin and his minions have considerable dirt on Trump and he owes them tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

The bizarre part is that the ultra-right has always been anti-Russia, yet to get their agenda passed they have to accept and help to conceal Trump's Achilles Heel. And the vaguely correlated intense love/hate relationship between the Religious Right and Israel (love-Israel + hate-Jews).

In my miasma and depression following the election, I have continued to cling to the hope that Trump's minions will eventually wake up and realize that he is their worst enemy.

[vivalarevolución]

Not trying to sound dissembling but all I can say is that I thoroughly enjoyed Trumps press conference today. Quite intense to say the least.I love how they stacked those documents on that table, I wonder who had that idea?!?

The point of having Trump's press conference today was to distract from Obama's farewell speech that occurred the day before. I'm not much for speeches, but I just watched the farewell speech and I found it enjoyable (if you steer clear of detailed analysis and don't get worked up about some of the exaggerated claims). One of my takeaway thoughts is that he put the focus on the achievements, work, and contributions of others, rather than blathering on about himself (which I believe was intentional to create a stark contrast with the incoming president). It was simply an inspirational, feel-good, vintage Obama speech. Real changes, of course, take much more work than speeches.

By the way, if you want to read a great speech, I recommend Martin Luther King's Beyond Vietnam speech, in which he turns his activism more towards class warfare, poverty, anti-war, and so much more: http://kingencyclopedia.stanford.edu/en ... d_vietnam/

I never listened to much of what Obama said, and I generally avoid anything Trump says and tweets unless it pop up in my Internet browsing. Because Trump clearly is a pathological liar and self-serving narcissist bent on changing our perception of reality to further his own interests, his words have no value to me and not worth extensive consideration. When dealing with people like him, you simply pay attention to their character and their actions beyond the deceptive words, and that shows their true intent and goals. Based on Trump's past and current displays of character and actions, I think we can all draw our own conclusions.

Trump is proving himself to be an entertainer, showman, troll, master media manipulator, expert deflector and denier, skilled attention seeker, social media bully, conflict-of-interest mine field. He has escorted "gaslighting" into the common vernacular. He has no concern for details, thoughtfulness, critical analysis, or most anything many of us academic types are accustomed to. He could be trolling us all the way to the point of impeachment hearings.

One of my personal sayings is that politics is acting and sports for all those average looking, unathletic guys. Trump is the perfect actor for the political theater that has been created by 24-hour entertainment news and the Internet behemoth. Trump has mastered the role, the supporters and detractors eat it up, and he is taking us along for the ride. You can sit back and enjoy it, try to fight it, or create your own ride with its own reality distortion field.

[webwit]

Real change my ass. Do you want me to list the countries where Obama raged fascist wars? Would you like me to list the 1% powers he has been a whore for? He's just working his fanbase, like Trump is.

Whether Trump is a puppet of Russia is not a question to be answered by the powers that answer it now, without evidence. What those guys are saying you should not believe by default, unless proven otherwise. See WOMD. Unless you'd like to be a gullible idiot. No real proof? My middle finger to those fascists.

[vivalarevolución]

Real change my ass. Do you want me to list the countries where Obama raged fascist wars? Would you like me to list the 1% powers he has been a whore for? He's just working his fanbase, like Trump is.

Whether Trump is a puppet of Russia is not a question to be answered by the powers that answer it now, without evidence. What those guys are saying you should not believe by default, unless proven otherwise. See WOMD. Unless you'd like to be a gullible idiot. No real proof? My middle finger to those fascists.

You seem triggered anytime a compliment is lobbed in the direction of Obama or the Democratic Party. I never said anything about Obama bringing about real changes. All I said is that real changes take more than speeches, but actual hard work. I personally can't stand speechifying (in most cases).

Regardless of what you think about US foreign policy, there have been some significant changes in domestic policy and trends under the Obama presidency. How much Obama had to do with it and whether the changes were entirely positive, that is a matter of debate.

But yea, our two parties do a great job of upholding the plutocracy, waging foreign war, and rallying their bases, while creating the semblance of choice, etc., the usual...

[002]

Whether Trump is a puppet of Russia is not a question to be answered by the powers that answer it now, without evidence. What those guys are saying you should not believe by default, unless proven otherwise. See WOMD. Unless you'd like to be a gullible idiot. No real proof? My middle finger to those fascists.

Umm but there is evidence? Haven't you seen the leaked dossier?

[Kurplop]

Whether Trump is a puppet of Russia is not a question to be answered by the powers that answer it now, without evidence. What those guys are saying you should not believe by default, unless proven otherwise. See WOMD. Unless you'd like to be a gullible idiot. No real proof? My middle finger to those fascists.

Umm but there is evidence? Haven't you seen the leaked dossier?

Obviously an intentional leak. Source would have redacted with a black sharpie otherwise.

[jacobolus]

Not trying to sound dissembling but all I can say is that I thoroughly enjoyed Trumps press conference today. Quite intense to say the least.I love how they stacked those documents on that table, I wonder who had that idea?!?

The “stack of documents” is just a bunch of blank printer paper shoved into a bunch of blank folders.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/ ... 1643995136
https://twitter.com/bergopolis/status/8 ... 0370614274
https://twitter.com/bergopolis/status/8 ... 3238497280

002’s “leaked dossier” in the post above is more believable.

On the one hand, this is a great metaphor for Trump’s whole candidacy and planned presidency. On the other hand, what the fuck America?

[seebart]

The “stack of documents” is just a bunch of blank printer paper shoved into a bunch of blank folders.

Does not suprise me. At the end that lady ran down all that "information", that took longer than his whole press conference!

002’s “leaked dossier” in the post above is more believable.

That "leak" is the most ridiculous (and I just mean that content) thing I've seen in a log time. I do believe in fact the russians have data on Trump and are willing to use it, but after that access Hollywood tape little will shock the public. What I did find interesting is how he went into him being aware of tiny IP cameras in hotels etc. He's such a tech guru...

Or, it's false, and the Obama clan is producing crazy fake news as a shit attempt to hold on the power (fascist pigs). Thank you, it has been and will be entertaining.

I don't think so, but he did directly say to the CNN reporter: "you're fake news" which is a nice change...

But the peak of the whole event for me was that he finished with ‘You’re Fired’... I mean WTF is that?!?

[webwit]

You seem triggered anytime a compliment is lobbed in the direction of Obama or the Democratic Party. I never said anything about Obama bringing about real changes. All I said is that real changes take more than speeches, but actual hard work. I personally can't stand speechifying (in most cases).

Regardless of what you think about US foreign policy, there have been some significant changes in domestic policy and trends under the Obama presidency. How much Obama had to do with it and whether the changes were entirely positive, that is a matter of debate.

But yea, our two parties do a great job of upholding the plutocracy, waging foreign war, and rallying their bases, while creating the semblance of choice, etc., the usual...

These Democrats... If you voted for fascist wedding bombers and wagers of oil wars, if you always made a conscious effort to look away and excuse the murdering, if you voted for that unprecedented Stasi hund, if you voted for a new cold war, then you should shut up forever about democracy and freedom, about how well Obama supposedly did elsewhere, about how much Trump sucks, about how much Republicans suck. You have lost any moral right to do so. You still don't get it. Trump is exactly what you begged for and deserved for all that shit. And still they continue, worse than ever... It's a low learning curve. It is a negative learning curve.

The first step to get rid of Trump and the republicans would be to get rid of your democrats and make a clean sweep, to provide a viable alternative.