Round 5 and Round 6 kits for sale!

[Elk]

Nub question : are the "leftovers" from R5/56 really all in stock and ready to ship ?

[zslane]

Round 5 yes.

Round 6 (phase 1) yes.

Round 6 (phase 2) no.

[Elk]

But I thought R6p2 was not produced yet, so how can there be "leftovers" ? I am confused...

[Parjánya]

They are leftovers because no one bought them yet. There is a certain amount to be made, some of it was sold already, some of it still is for the takers

[Elk]

So really, HONEYB/*/GREY leftovers are items that have not reached MOQ ? Thanks for clearing that up.

[Parjánya]

Nope, they will be produced (...), but not all of the order has already been sold. Some kits were even added later, like the extra (/E/) white alphas.

[velusip]

Bumping R6 with a big order of leftover stock! Gotta clack'em all.

[caligo]

I am not really clear about the manufacturing process but I'm not talking about the molds of SA caps, I'm talking about the legend design. And now I remember 7bit talked about Round 7 will have slightly larger fonts, then it will be all different from Round 6 actually.

The vector files for all R7 legends remain with 7bit, and are intellectual property owned by him – I highly doubt SP has even seen them. But the legends are designed with the profile in mind, and as I understand it a change in keycap geometry would necessitate tweaking of all legend designs.

Also, how the elegends are applied to the keys makes a big difference . If one was to go the dyesub route instead of doing doubleshots, for example, the set of constraints put on legend design would change. With doubleshot legends one has to take into account that the CNC mill cutting the plates has limitations when it comes to distance between lines, thinness of lines, etc. With dye sublimation, there is another set of limitations.

Things that are specific to R7, like the symbol legends, would probably be salvagable no matter what profile is used. And the colors are not that outlandish, so it should be possible to do something similar with e.g. GMKs color options. But there are lots of intangibles at play here: would it feel the same way if it was done with e.g. Cherry Profile cylindricals? Design is tricky, and good design takes time. Rushing to do the same thing as first intended but with a ton of compromise seldom works out.

EDIT: On rereding your previous post, I realize I probably only answered part of your question. As I understand it, the keyset designer owns all unique legend designs – SP just manifacture them. At least that was the case with Granite, if i remember correctly – I know Matt3o talked about it a while back. So I guess all the Space Cadet stuff remains 7bits intellectual property, unless he had some other deal with SP. But intllectual property is kind of messy, and I'm no lawyer.

[7bit]

I've updated the wiki:
wiki/R5_leftovers (everything in stock)
wiki/R6_leftovers (everything that contains one of each words: SPH, BLUE, VIOLETT, CREAM, CADET, HYPER7, HONEYG)

[7bit]

Gray Jian, I thought you where older.


Nevertheless:

I'm packing the last packages right now.

Some orders contain only a few shipable keys, so I jold them back. But if you want them right now, just tell the bot:
SHIPNOW
^^^ This kit contains nmo keys but I will ship everything that is available to you.

What is the procedure for getting missing keys? I still need 1.25u CTRL from my tkl cadet kit!

I've not enough of the 1.25 units keys but SP promissed to ship them as soon as they can. If they are missing, you should find something kit in your invoice that conatins the word "MISS".

If other keys are missing or wrong, just pm me and I will ship the keys as soon as I can. Some people already got their missing keys, so you don't have to walk back into the queue.

[7bit]

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/

"7bit was made aware of this through email on Thursday, January 19th." What the fuck, dude.

I obviously miss-read it. However, I still have hops SP will not let me down.

[7bit]

http://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/

"7bit was made aware of this through email on Thursday, January 19th." What the fuck, dude.

Wow dad

We are still waiting for funds for Round 6b. Once received, we will review the production schedule and provide an estimated completion date. Currently we are booked out to the end of 2017 in two-shot SA sets. This includes 11 retail 'group buys' (3 for MD) plus 5 large commercial orders. Due to a number of factors, the main one being the overwhelming demand for custom SA sets, Round 6b will be the last of the Round orders we will produce in the foreseeable future. 7bit was made aware of this through email on Thursday, Jan

Sorry, but this still says it will be the "last in a forseable future" it does not say they never want to take an order from me.

If their production is full for a year ahead, I fully understand this but not so much that they say they did not want to take orders from me.

Round 7 was never meant to fire off before Round 6 is complete. This is why there is a 25% preorder rebate!

Maybe SP did not take that into account.

Also: The concept will be different this time. Instead of trying to get the funds together for all colors available, there will be only 2 colors produced. So from the beginning the whole thing is split up instead of running these monster group buys again.

Production will be separate for each color and will start with the most successful color, once there are enough orders.

[7bit]

I sort of feel that the timing of the PMK status page update is rather besides the point, unless you really want to crawl down the rabbit hole of 7bit's communications with SP (I know I sure don't).

Yeah, that's a can of worms we'd probably be best off not opening. And a time lag of two or more days is nothing new when it comes to online interactions with 7bit, so there's really no surprise there. SP basically throwing 7bit under the bus in a status update on their own webpage, apparently after having read the discussion here on DT, does not come off as very professional though. I get that they're a small company an all, but that seemed really uncalled for.

Them already having prepared for gearing up the R6 phase 2 production line will probably mean that's going to happen sooner or later. But if they're pissed enough to hang a longtime customer out to dry like that, I guess the chances of them doing R7 are rather slim.

It is not the first time they did not contact me first. And they contributed a lot on their own with forgetting to produce several keys from the already paid half of the order, doing wronng legend keys, including those which have been corrected during some of the previous rounds.

BTW: They already started to produce black phase 2 keys, I know because I found some in the grab bags. Then, when they realised that they had forgotten to produce several keys from phase 1, they stopped. I think this will be one reason that they want no more changes. On the other hand, there are still white alpha and grey sixty kits available, so I would not really want to order more of them:
HONEYB/SIXTYBASE/GREY
HONEYB/ALPHA/E/WHITE
HONEYB/CURSORS/GREY
HONEYB/FUNCTION1/GREY
HONEYB/SPACE625/WHITE
HONEYB/SPACE625/GREY
^^^ all these are available, BTW, just not shipping right now ....

[7bit]

I read through the full whats new page now. It looks like the page would be empty without me on the planet.


Wail!


Maybe I should explain: I'm a one man show. I can't chat all day answer questions the bot could have asked etc. and sort and ship the keys. There are so many options it takes quite some time to find all of them and pack the order. Sometimes I'm searching for that one bag with that one single key. It is much simplere if you only have 5 or 10 kits, but currently, there are still 274 kits and single keys in stock. 274 bags containing bags with keys or single keys.

[7bit]

HONEYG/ALPHA/CADET/R
Price: $59

I've got 3 and one extra with a T missing ...

[7bit]

Special deals:
There is only one order for HONEYB/HYPER7/POS at $89
If one more is ordered, I lower the price for both to $79 and if 3 are sold to $69 and if 4 are sold to $59!!!


There are still 5 HONEYB/HYPER7/CADET kits available at $279.
If one more order gets in, I lower the price to $269 for everynody who already ordered it!

[Menuhin]

Does swapping some of my Round 7 to one of these (e.g. HONEYG/ALPHA/CADET/R) help the Round 6 funding?

[zslane]

So I guess all the Space Cadet stuff remains 7bits intellectual property, unless he had some other deal with SP. But intllectual property is kind of messy, and I'm no lawyer.

Yes, it is very messy.

As far as I know, there are no IP laws in the United States that protect keycap legends. Even a novelty legend is unlikely to qualify for copyright protection in this country. It could be trademarked, possibly, but nobody has ever registered for one that I know of. SP grants their own version of creative rights benefits, but it is not backed by the corpus of U.S. IP law. It basically states that they will not permit the re-use of a custom legend plate (or dyesub graphic) without the designer's expressed consent. This is SP's policy alone, and it is enforced at their discretion. It would be prudent for designers to understand this and not get too caught up in what they think they "own" in the eyes of the law.

As for the Space Cadet legends in particular, yes 7bit paid for those legend plates, and so as far as SP is concerned they are "his" and he gets to say if anyone else can ever use them. But they could change their mind at any time on that policy and 7bit has no legal recourse other than to try and demand the physical legend plates that he paid for. He has no legal IP claim to the legends themselves since such things aren't protectable in the first place. But even in terms of who should get creative "credit" for their design, well, technically that honor should go to Tom Knight, not 7bit.

[Menuhin]

Perhaps Tom Knight is watching us.

[zslane]

Does swapping some of my Round 7 to one of these (e.g. HONEYG/ALPHA/CADET/R) help the Round 6 funding?

Yes.

But primarily in the sense that it puts more money safely into the Round 6 kitty, and leaves less in the pool of money that may have to be refunded to you if Round 7 falls through. It's not quite the same (or as impactful) as new money coming in (exclusively) for Round 6 leftovers, but every little bit helps!

[7bit]

Does swapping some of my Round 7 to one of these (e.g. HONEYG/ALPHA/CADET/R) help the Round 6 funding?

Anything helps!


Ideally, someone pays $7000 straight to SP without ordering something.


Or order something worth $7000.

[caligo]

As far as I know, there are no IP laws in the United States that protect keycap legends. Even a novelty legend is unlikely to qualify for copyright protection in this country. It could be trademarked, possibly, but nobody has ever registered for one that I know of. SP grants their own version of creative rights benefits, but it is not backed by the corpus of U.S. IP law. It basically states that they will not permit the re-use of a custom legend plate (or dyesub graphic) without the designer's expressed consent. This is SP's policy alone, and it is enforced at their discretion. It would be prudent for designers to understand this and not get too caught up in what they think they "own" in the eyes of the law.

As for the Space Cadet legends in particular, yes 7bit paid for those legend plates, and so as far as SP is concerned they are "his" and he gets to say if anyone else can ever use them. But they could change their mind at any time on that policy and 7bit has no legal recourse other than to try and demand the physical legend plates that he paid for. He has no legal IP claim to the legends themselves since such things aren't protectable in the first place. But even in terms of who should get creative "credit" for their design, well, technically that honor should go to Tom Knight, not 7bit.

With typefaces, the shapes themselves are not protected by US law but the digital version is (since it's essentially considered software – you can create something that looks similar, but the nodes have to be placed differently). I guess something similar might apply here, even if the thing was digitized based on someone else's work. But then again, that might just mean SP does not retain the rights to the vector files – they'd still have the plates, and the files for CNC tooling paths used to mill them. And I have no idea what it sais in the contract between SP and 7bit. Hopefully, we won't find out any time soon just how much power SP has over the design.

[7bit]

So I guess all the Space Cadet stuff remains 7bits intellectual property, unless he had some other deal with SP. But intllectual property is kind of messy, and I'm no lawyer.

Yes, it is very messy.

As far as I know, there are no IP laws in the United States that protect keycap legends. Even a novelty legend is unlikely to qualify for copyright protection in this country. It could be trademarked, possibly, but nobody has ever registered for one that I know of. SP grants their own version of creative rights benefits, but it is not backed by the corpus of U.S. IP law. It basically states that they will not permit the re-use of a custom legend plate (or dyesub graphic) without the designer's expressed consent. This is SP's policy alone, and it is enforced at their discretion. It would be prudent for designers to understand this and not get too caught up in what they think they "own" in the eyes of the law.

As for the Space Cadet legends in particular, yes 7bit paid for those legend plates, and so as far as SP is concerned they are "his" and he gets to say if anyone else can ever use them. But they could change their mind at any time on that policy and 7bit has no legal recourse other than to try and demand the physical legend plates that he paid for. He has no legal IP claim to the legends themselves since such things aren't protectable in the first place. But even in terms of who should get creative "credit" for their design, well, technically that honor should go to Tom Knight, not 7bit.

I can't stop anyone from making yet another space cadet legends clone, like I did. But should SP produce the legends I created without my permission, they are in trouble.

I did not exactly copy the legends, but in some way improved them. Just compare them to the original and you will see the differences.

With typefaces, the shapes themselves are not protected by US law but the digital version is (since it's essentially considered software – you can create something that looks similar, but the nodes have to be placed differently). I guess something similar might apply here, even if the thing was digitized based on someone else's work. But then again, that might just mean SP does not retain the rights to the vector files – they'd still have the plates, and the files for CNC tooling paths used to mill them. And I have no idea what it sais in the contract between SP and 7bit. Hopefully, we won't find out any time soon just how much power SP has over the design.

I'm quite sure they will not use them. However, should someone come up with a group buy in that direction, just let me know ...

[caligo]

Does swapping some of my Round 7 to one of these (e.g. HONEYG/ALPHA/CADET/R) help the Round 6 funding?

Anything helps!


Ideally, someone pays $7000 straight to SP without ordering something.


Or order something worth $7000.

Step 1: Engrave "Saviour of R6" on a blank keycap (you do have a dremel, right?). FIll with epoxy resin. Almost looks like a doubleshot key, good enough.

Step 2: Sell it to a lucky buyer for $7000, most exclusive R6 keycap there ever was. Hell, clacks can sell for hundreds of dollars and this would be way more fancy. I bet there would be someone out there willing to buy it.

Step 3: Profit. Everyone's happy.

[7bit]

This reminds me: I still have very few GEEK HACK keys which I must sell at extremely high prices!


I list them tomorrow ...

[eddible]

What's going on with the hyper7 PCBs? Just thinking if the PCBs were going to exist at some point this year, the caps would be more desirable/useful.

[chuckdee]

I can't stop anyone from making yet another space cadet legends clone, like I did. But should SP produce the legends I created without my permission, they are in trouble.

I did not exactly copy the legends, but in some way improved them. Just compare them to the original and you will see the differences.

Seems like it would be covered under the same protections as fonts. Did you register them for protection?

[lolpes]

The PCBs exist, plate and case for it do not yet unfortunately :/ Maybe some time in the near future when 7bit has some time

[7bit]

What's going on with the hyper7 PCBs? Just thinking if the PCBs were going to exist at some point this year, the caps would be more desirable/useful.

Yeah shit. I really want to ship the rest and then I can work on the PCBs and plates an all that.

Please give me a few more weeks.

[zslane]

Yes, 7bit enjoys IP ownership of the digital art files that he sent to SP. But any one of us could draw our own version of those same legends and we'd own that digital version. I'm not sure how that really protects anyone's design; all it does is protect a particular disk file from unlawful duplication/re-use.

BTW, I think you'd be disappointed by the contract between SP and 7bit, as I doubt there is one. At least, not in the form of a legal document that was signed by both parties. Hell, even MassDrop didn't have anything like that for designers until late last year. The only "contract" that likely exists between 7bit and SP is one of customer (7bit) and goods provider (SP). They are obligated to produce the goods he orders, and he is obligated to pay according to the terms of the invoice(s) they send. That's all.

There is, I'm sure, a document somewhere at SP that lays out the ownership terms of any custom tooling paid for by a customer, as this is required in order to do business with large commercial and industrial clients. But I'd be surprised if 7bit actually signed anything; I'm sure he simply falls under the standard terms that all SP clients do.