IDENTIFY THE KEYBOARD thread

[Chyros]

Amstrad spring over membrane (ultra awful)

Oh come on Chyros, don't tell me you buy into all our Great British Propaganda!

It's what I'm calling [wiki]Matsushita prong over membrane[/wiki] — I noticed on Jacob#1's Amstrad keyboard a very small [wiki]Matsushita[/wiki] logo (the old diamond thingy). It's like (helical) spring over membrane except the pressure spring is just a bit of plastic. Chiller Gorilla: how low can you go?

Also used in some Acorn Archimedes keyboards. There's a really old prototype Archimedes A500 keyboard that I can't identify:

http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... /A500.html

The legends are Japanese style, but the machine is buried in some museum now and we'll never find out what it is.

Ah, so Matsushita are the OEM? Well that makes sense, their dome with slider design is pretty awful as well if memory serves :p .

[y11971alex]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292008047835

What keyboard is that?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A Zenith keyboard.

[elecplus]

Note the keyboard is not included and has already been sold...

[mike52787]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292008047835

What keyboard is that?

zkb2 or zkb2r

[mike52787]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apollo-A1630-82 ... 2290848664

Any ideas?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I don't know what it is, but the curved back panel strongly implies something membrane based. Nice keycaps — they remind me of Sun keycaps. Made in Mexico though — that limits it a little bit. It looks too good to be Maxi Switch, and it doesn't look Clare-Pendar either. Curious.

[Harshmallow]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292008047835

What keyboard is that?

That was a beautiful NIB Zenith ZKB-2XT that some lucky person got for $75 right after that seller split the keyboard from the rest of the computer. There was mention of this either a few pages back in this thread, or in the interesting finds one.

[Mr.Nobody]

Ah, the MCK-101, always liked that board, although I don't have one myself.

What makes it so special beside the flipable pages for Function key reference? It's probably a board with blue or white Alps ...

[Chyros]

Ah, the MCK-101, always liked that board, although I don't have one myself.

What makes it so special beside the flipable pages for Function key reference? It's probably a board with blue or white Alps ...

The SX model is said to come with white Alps, yes, but I just like the look, and the flip thing is pretty cool too.

[IKSLM]

Any info about this?

[Brot]

.

[Wodan]

eeeeeew ... that must be some IBM clone ...

There were tons of clones of the IBM AT and IBM XT ModelF keyboards.

[Chyros]

Datacomp. That model comes with Futaba clickies, maybe other switches too but none that I know of.

[IKSLM]

Thanks man, how do you know it's datacomp?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Thanks man, how do you know it's datacomp?

I wasn't aware that this was confirmed. The same keyboard was presented recently:

keyboards-f2/identify-this-keyboard-thr ... ml#p352214

http://www.ebay.com/itm/flange/12228608 ... _cvip=true

Tech Electronics Company of Hong Kong, and the exact same design of label as BTC keyboards.

It was noted that the keycaps are the same as this (shape and legends):

photos-f62/microweb-touch-1-t8619.html

[Chyros]

Thanks man, how do you know it's datacomp?

I wasn't aware that this was confirmed. The same keyboard was presented recently:

keyboards-f2/identify-this-keyboard-thr ... ml#p352214

http://www.ebay.com/itm/flange/12228608 ... _cvip=true

Tech Electronics Company of Hong Kong, and the exact same design of label as BTC keyboards.

It was noted that the keycaps are the same as this (shape and legends):

photos-f62/microweb-touch-1-t8619.html

Well, I've got one that looks identical. No guarantees, as it always is with vintage keyboards, but that's my bet at least.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Unfortunately "identical" to many people equates to "similar", and I refuse to believe "identical" without proof. So many subtle details that get overlooked. The smaller Microweb one with the same switches and keycaps doesn't have either "Datacomp" or "Sung Wei" (Datacomp's PCB manufacturer) written on the PCB, so that one is unidentifiable at present, and the eBay example comes from some other company nobody's heard of (Tech Electronics).

There certainly are Datacomp keyboards in that general style with Futaba switches, but until all these keyboards get added to the wiki, you'll have to hope Google will find them (and normally it won't, as the forum topics never, ever say in them what you thought they did, so they won't appear in search results — I never found that page with the electric typewriter with Mitsumi switches and I doubt I ever will now).

[Chyros]

Unfortunately "identical" to many people equates to "similar", and I refuse to believe "identical" without proof.

That's OK Daniel, I don't really care if you believe it or not :p .

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That's the problem …

[Chyros]

I just don't think I have any obligation to prove anything to you. Someone asked about a keyboard, and I answered the question with my hypothesis based on a keyboard I own myself. I don't really know where you got the idea from that people need to show proof to you when they're trying to help out someone else. Sorry if I make a hypothesis in the future without your personal approval of my "proof" of the matter, but last I checked, hypotheses don't have to be run past you before posting, yet.

I'll also point out that you haven't proposed a counter-hypothesis yourself, so you're not adding anything to the discussion beyond my "I suspect Futabas".

[Daniel Beardsmore]

You were very certain. You stated the manufacturer and the switch as a matter of fact. It wasn't a hypothesis, it was a statement of fact without even the faintest suggestion of uncertainty, and didn't back down from that concrete assertion until you were called out on it.

So now people have to take your word for it, and can't prove anything one way or another. Since you have a similar/identical keyboard, take a photo of the front, back and switch and let us see it. Then we can compare the two. Even though you refuse to touch the wiki, at least we'll have a physical data point of the front, back (with label), and switch, on the forum as a reference point.

When people make unsubstantiated claims, they can't be either confirmed or refuted, so no-one can be sure whether to believe them or not. The worst situation is the Cherry MX pages on the wiki — I'm not even going to try to untangle that mess as I don't know what to believe any more. I know that the introduction date on the wiki for Marquardt Series 6184 was totally bogus — that figure was extricated from someone's nether region, and I've since got the correct date from Marquardt themselves. Not even the right decade!

We've reached an age where it's trivial to document anything photographically. Let's actually make use of this technological marvel to replace myths and unsubstantiated claims with hard evidence. Take a photo. Link to the PDF or website. Let people see where the information came from.

I want people to realise that they must not blindly accept anything they read, no matter how seemingly trustworthy the source. Not even from me!

[Chyros]

I said it might come with other switches too, I really don't see what you're making such a big deal of here.

If IKSLM finds it helpful, I will gladly post a picture of my board. I'm not going to put it up just to stroke your limitless ego. If the community feel I'm doing more harm than good with my advice here, I'll more than happily keep my advice to myself, I'm really just trying to help. Just because "help" doesn't qualify as constructive to you if it doesn't come with a full teardown log, a legion of timestamped pictures, and a signed testimony of the manufacturer doesn't mean others don't, though.

[cumwagondeluxe]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NCR-Keypad-small ... xyhXRTMcu-

Anyone know what might be lurking underneath those caps? Tempted to buy it just for the case if he accepts a low offer even if it ends up having shit switches

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I said it might come with other switches too, I really don't see what you're making such a big deal of here.

If IKSLM finds it helpful, I will gladly post a picture of my board. I'm not going to put it up just to stroke your limitless ego.

You had to be called out on it before you made that admission though. Even if you know for certain who the manufacturer is (and that's very hazy with keyboards of that era), you should know by now how often Far East manufacturers changed switches.

What's it got to do with my ego? I simply object to unjustified statements of fact, and unsupported claims. In order to move forward with gaining knowledge, we have to be clear on the facts. Even when we know we're correct, if we don't prove it, our correct facts and our false facts become indistinguishable.

When I started out here, I would simply parrot back whatever other people had written, assuming and trusting it to be true, in particular the whole nonsense about Type I/II/III/IV simplified Alps, and "XM". This is before your time, but it was originally believed that Type II simplified Alps were "XM", which was just passed from person to person without anyone knowing what an "XM" was, and nobody ever questioned it. Complete blind acceptance of whatever anyone authoritative wrote. None of Type n stuff was true. (Most of the "Type II"/"XM" switches are likely to be Himake AK-CN2, and while I believe that to be true, I've never claimed that as fact, and AK-CN2 and OA2/T1 remain separate on the wiki until I can prove it.)

You have to think critically about it: nothing anyone says is true simply because you trust the person saying it. What you have to trust is the evidence they've provided. Sometimes the evidence doesn't match up with their claims. Likewise, by providing evidence, you've given people genuinely valid information that they can work with.

And yes, sometimes there isn't enough evidence to prove or disprove something. It's perfectly acceptable to not know the answer, because often we don't. So long as we keep the evidence coming, one day someone will re-examine it and put it all together and determine the answer. They'll see clues that we're not seeing.

[seebart]

Datacomp. That model comes with Futaba clickies, maybe other switches too but none that I know of.

Now if I rephrase to:

I suspect it's a Datacomp with Futaba clickies.

That would be quite brilliant really wouldn't it? Because from that picture no one really can know for sure. And I know that's what Chyros meant also.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Not really … how does one "suspect" Datacomp? In the past, I'd have accepted "I have one that shape with those keycaps, with a Datacomp label on it", but I've come to realise just how many clones/copies there were of these old designs. You have that "TH" keyboard that you think is Tai-Hao but does a TH on a PCB mean Tai-Hao? Maybe (and it probably is), but it's so similar to Focus keyboards — that was a particular era with so much copying! Now I need to see for myself to feel sure.

[seebart]

Not really … how does one "suspect" Datacomp?

...have an idea or impression of the existence, presence, or truth of (something) without certain proof.

[Chyros]

Not really … how does one "suspect" Datacomp? In the past, I'd have accepted "I have one that shape with those keycaps, with a Datacomp label on it", but I've come to realise just how many clones/copies there were of these old designs. You have that "TH" keyboard that you think is Tai-Hao but does a TH on a PCB mean Tai-Hao? Maybe (and it probably is), but it's so similar to Focus keyboards — that was a particular era with so much copying! Now I need to see for myself to feel sure.

You're right, the best solution is to not say anything at all. Surely that will be the most helpful!

P.S. I suspect he's more interested in the switches rather than who was the official designated OEM of which parts of the keyboard, just saying...

[subcat]

Hi guys, I came across these three old Japanese computers on Yahoo! Auctions, as per usual - OLD-COMPUTERS.COM claims they have 'mechanical keyboards' - not the most concise answer, but hey, what did I expect.
http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d216837742
http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... x474954967
http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... n199456677

Any guidance is appreciated.