Yes, and the actuation is deeper down too, I noticed it while doing the review.lepidus wrote: ↑4mm? Their travel distance is bigger than regular alps?
Some users reported a "secondary tactile event" during the key-press on Matias' Quiet-Click, perhaps that is true and how that shows up in the force curve.Chyros wrote: ↑So what's causing that little dip thing right after the tactile bump on Click switches then? It's interesting to see that they're so much more tactile than the tactile switches, though I guess that's typical for Alps-like switches. This is the first time we've really seen it so clearly, though.
No, it's not that, that's the thing at about 3 mm depth. I've seen it before on some of his force charts for very tactile switches, was wondering what could be causing it.Menuhin wrote: ↑Some users reported a "secondary tactile event" during the key-press on Matias' Quiet-Click, perhaps that is true and how that shows up in the force curve.Chyros wrote: ↑So what's causing that little dip thing right after the tactile bump on Click switches then? It's interesting to see that they're so much more tactile than the tactile switches, though I guess that's typical for Alps-like switches. This is the first time we've really seen it so clearly, though.
It looks like underdamped overshoot- the tactile cliff is so steep that the gauge has trouble accurately measuring directly after the bump. Compare to a thermostat that brings air a bit too hot, then over some time settles down- looks like the same thing is going on here.Chyros wrote: ↑So what's causing that little dip thing right after the tactile bump on Click switches then? It's interesting to see that they're so much more tactile than the tactile switches, though I guess that's typical for Alps-like switches. This is the first time we've really seen it so clearly, though.
The secondary event comes from the contact plate's leaf. Same thing happens on most SKCx (if not all Alps). It's a reason that the longer switch plates are preferred by some- the 2nd bump can come a bit later, and less intensely (see Haata's curves on Orange and Black SKCM for reference).Menuhin wrote: ↑Some users reported a "secondary tactile event" during the key-press on Matias' Quiet-Click, perhaps that is true and how that shows up in the force curve.
Thanks for the link.drevyek wrote: ↑The secondary event comes from the contact plate's leaf. Same thing happens on most SKCx (if not all Alps). It's a reason that the longer switch plates are preferred by some- the 2nd bump can come a bit later, and less intensely (see Haata's curves on Orange and Black SKCM for reference).Spoiler:
The second bump is in all Alps switches with a switchplate. It's caused by the slider clearing the contact leaf. Even linear switches have this bump, which you can clearly feel.Menuhin wrote: ↑Thanks for the link.drevyek wrote: ↑The secondary event comes from the contact plate's leaf. Same thing happens on most SKCx (if not all Alps). It's a reason that the longer switch plates are preferred by some- the 2nd bump can come a bit later, and less intensely (see Haata's curves on Orange and Black SKCM for reference).Spoiler:
It struck me that almost all Alps switches have this second bump (okay perhaps not quite a 'tactile' and obvious event) near the end of the key travel at around 3mm or tiny bit early.
Another noteworthy and quite telling observation is, Alps SKCM browns has a really round curve, with its shape almost looks like ... a Topre switch (!?) On the other hand, SKCM Oranges and SKCM Blues have curves of similar shapes, quite rounded not as rounded as the brown's, with their second bump quite close to the first bump almost looking like a holistic event.
I saw that you mentioned this second tactile bump in the Matias keyboard review, is it more pronounced on the Matias click switches compared to SKCM blue or SKCM white? I've been thinking about a modern replacement.Chyros wrote: ↑The second bump is in all Alps switches with a switchplate. It's caused by the slider clearing the contact leaf. Even linear switches have this bump, which you can clearly feel.Menuhin wrote: ↑
It struck me that almost all Alps switches have this second bump (okay perhaps not quite a 'tactile' and obvious event) near the end of the key travel at around 3mm or tiny bit early.
Another noteworthy and quite telling observation is, Alps SKCM browns has a really round curve, with its shape almost looks like ... a Topre switch (!?) On the other hand, SKCM Oranges and SKCM Blues have curves of similar shapes, quite rounded not as rounded as the brown's, with their second bump quite close to the first bump almost looking like a holistic event.
The SKCM brown one really threw me. It's clearly the same kind of curve as for SKCM Neon Green, which FINALLY gives some actual, strong proof that Non Green and Brown are indeed related. And yeah, many people including myself have described this kind of feeling as being much like a "mechanical rubber dome" feeling.
Yes, I'd say it is, because it's more separated from the main tactile event, so it stands out more.AlpsAddict wrote: ↑I saw that you mentioned this second tactile bump in the Matias keyboard review, is it more pronounced on the Matias click switches compared to SKCM blue or SKCM white? I've been thinking about a modern replacement.Chyros wrote: ↑The second bump is in all Alps switches with a switchplate. It's caused by the slider clearing the contact leaf. Even linear switches have this bump, which you can clearly feel.Menuhin wrote: ↑
It struck me that almost all Alps switches have this second bump (okay perhaps not quite a 'tactile' and obvious event) near the end of the key travel at around 3mm or tiny bit early.
Another noteworthy and quite telling observation is, Alps SKCM browns has a really round curve, with its shape almost looks like ... a Topre switch (!?) On the other hand, SKCM Oranges and SKCM Blues have curves of similar shapes, quite rounded not as rounded as the brown's, with their second bump quite close to the first bump almost looking like a holistic event.
The SKCM brown one really threw me. It's clearly the same kind of curve as for SKCM Neon Green, which FINALLY gives some actual, strong proof that Non Green and Brown are indeed related. And yeah, many people including myself have described this kind of feeling as being much like a "mechanical rubber dome" feeling.
It's a great switch, much better than the majority of clicky switches out on the market at the moment, I think.PollandAkuma wrote: ↑So I tried a matias clicky over the weekend, and I quite liked it,
I would love to get a keyboard where you can set the actuation force and at the end of the day can check out total daily typing calories ...Ratfink wrote: ↑How about we use a real SI unit then and call it 970 μJ?
There's are pretty good idea, of course with adjustable tactile feedback and programmable clicker for linear mode.
With 1 mJ / keystroke, you'd need about 4.2 million keystrokes to burn one Calorie. Typing is a pretty bad workout.
Technically, the area under the force vs displacement (distance) curve would be the "work". The units would be same as energy units, e.g., Joules or kcal.HaaTa wrote: ↑Yeah, I think of it as "total force to actuate". It's the area under the curve.
