The Oracle Answers

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Dear Oracle

When you say "éow", do you in fact mean ēower? "ēow" means "you". (For me, "your" is one syllable, but in some accents it remains two syllables, just about.)

[pansku]

Dear Oracle,

How much should one be willing to spent to make a dream of his to come true? I'm not dreaming of anything too big or special, no artisans, none of those fancy round 6 keycaps. Oh, if only those caps came in Alps mount I'd get them for my Omnikey instantly

Just a little something for my liking. The board would consist of stuff as following:

• A handmade case I will make myself. No budget, something REALLY unique I have never seen done before ???€
• A watercut A2 plate from a local waterjet/laser cutter. I'll have to ask for an quote. ???€
• Alps64 PCB. 52€ shipping incl.
• ISO-DE Dyesubbed PBT -caps. Do such things exist or would it make more sense to go for doubleshot ABS? How much should those cost me in mint condition(ISO-DE alphanumerics + ISO Winkeyless mods and a row 3 Ctrl)? ???€
• Stabilisers for those keycaps. ???€
• ~70 SKCL Greens in mint or near mint condition. Do they have the drylube I've seen mentioned with blues, so would ultrasonically cleaned good to near mints do the trick? ???€
• Alternatively same amount of SKCM Blues. Mint condition I assume. ???€
• A nice cable to go with all that. Shouldn't cost more than 15€, right?
• Mounting stuff like screws and maybe standoffs if necessary. I should have compatible stuff in garage. 0€
• +++++ a LOT for postage if I get all the stuff from like 6 to 7 different places. €€€

Hope the list above makes sense. TL;DR ISO 60% with SKCL Greens (maybe Blues). So basically just another non-AEK Alps64-board (Not including the case ) I haven't used the search function too excessively yet, but should all those things be acquirable within a timeframe of 3-6 months? At this point I'm trying to get a rough estimate how much the board would cost me. I want it bad, but not as in 300€ for switches alone bad.

I'm hoping to get the parts separately because I don't have the heart to butcher a board for switches or caps alone. If something has survived 20 to 30 years already it won't get destroyed in my hands. Maybe I'd consider buying donor board if it was badly injured already. Unfortunately that shopping requirement will probably make getting parts harder. I hope to finish the board so it would be ready by next autumn when I hopefully get to Aalto University

Do you think that the planned board makes any sense or would I'd be better off getting something readily available and replacing the switches?

Edit: Grammar

[gogusrl]

not an expert at it but it should go something like this :
- layered acrylic case 50-100$
- plate 30-60$
- iso de alps dyesubs from a dell AT101 no clue really, let's 30-80$
- ~70 greens 30-60$
- ~70 blues 60-80$
- cable 15-25$

The upper range of the prices should include shipping as well. You can go a lot cheaper than that for most stuff. For switches / caps check local ad sales & stuff like that. You can go with a 16$ aliexpress plastic case instead of building your own, regular cable, etc.

[pansku]

not an expert at it but it should go something like this :
- layered acrylic case 50-100$
- plate 30-60$
- iso de alps dyesubs from a dell AT101 no clue really, let's 30-80$
- ~70 greens 30-60$
- ~70 blues 60-80$
- cable 15-25$

The upper range of the prices should include shipping as well. You can go a lot cheaper than that for most stuff. For switches / caps check local ad sales & stuff like that. You can go with a 16$ aliexpress plastic case instead of building your own, regular cable, etc.

Thanks for the reply!

So that would bring the total to a reasonable 200ish euros. The case should cost me nothing. I'll have to see if I can get the raw material for free. Also I'm maybe able to make the plate myself. I can get aluminium and stainless steel scraps (1,2mm and 1,5mm) for free, but I don't have too many metal working tools. I have access to copy milling machine, but I'm not sure they have small enough bit to make the plate decent looking. Worst case scenario is that they don't have smaller than 8mm available. It may not be the perfect tool for the job, but it's something at least.

The caps and switches are the big question mark for me. How do you rate the Dell caps when compared to Model F caps? When I've tried to find any old boards in Finnish craigslist like services and computer forums, I've only found Model Ms and some random boards for Amiga and C64. For the switches and cap-donor board I should maybe just make an WTB-thread. The cable I was thinking isn't anything special. Just a basic white sleeved cable.

Here is an inspiration image for a little tease

[sneaux]

Dear Oracle,

I've at last found the layout I've been seeking on the FKB 89J keyboard. Keys for thumbs of the appropriate size to be useful. It is more compact than JIS Realforce TKL boards, but respects the old ways like not mixing totally different spacing conventions, unlike HHKB JP. It seemingly even has alps switches. Diatec maintains a webpage here http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=8, but my weak google-fu has not shown where I might such a board available for purchase. Any direction to this hyperlink or a reasonable seller is appreciated.

[__red__]

Dear Oracle,

I have come into the possession of ~57 beamspring keyswitches and have knowledge of the dark arts of hardware needed to entice it into a configuration of my choosing. But Oracle, my life has been dominated by the Battleships of old so need your guidance as to what arrangement of these keys would make the most potent keyboard.

Oracle, I have never been tempted by sins of minimalism or ergonomicanisms... pray tell, can you give me guidance?

[ohaimark]

Uhhh... You need to design and fab your own PCB, for starters. Capacitive stuff isn't easy like contact based mechanisms -- hand wiring just isn't viable.

[__red__]

Uhhh... You need to design and fab your own PCB, for starters. Capacitive stuff isn't easy like contact based mechanisms -- hand wiring just isn't viable.

I know... I might have done some F-related PCB design before.

EG: https://github.com/redvers/xwhatsit-diptrace

[y11971alex]

Decided to buy a Topre SSK with 55g domes.

[arkanoid]

Is it possible to use beam spring switches on Model F PCB if proper chasis is made?

[y11971alex]

I think so, but beam spring controllers see the opposite of a Model F controller. With the fly plate on the sensor, beam spring is unpressed but Model F is pressed.

[seebart]

I think so, but beam spring controllers see the opposite of a Model F controller. With the fly plate on the sensor, beam spring is unpressed but Model F is pressed.

Good question, it would involve a serious amount of work for sure.

[arkanoid]

I think so, but beam spring controllers see the opposite of a Model F controller. With the fly plate on the sensor, beam spring is unpressed but Model F is pressed.

Good question, it would involve a serious amount of work for sure.

Interesting. I will look forward to seeing modern layout beam spring keyboards some day in the future!

[seebart]

I think so, but beam spring controllers see the opposite of a Model F controller. With the fly plate on the sensor, beam spring is unpressed but Model F is pressed.

Good question, it would involve a serious amount of work for sure.

Interesting. I will look forward to seeing modern layout beam spring keyboards some day in the future!

bb9e43ab5aa33d4624bc764c783dba9fe5bab8b1299b364169f0d8582e809fe6.jpg (79.09 KiB) Viewed 6700 times

[__red__]

PCB and electronics for Beamspring is easy. The hard part is sourcing the switches...

[Orpheo]

Dear Oracle,

I've at last found the layout I've been seeking on the FKB 89J keyboard. Keys for thumbs of the appropriate size to be useful. It is more compact than JIS Realforce TKL boards, but respects the old ways like not mixing totally different spacing conventions, unlike HHKB JP. It seemingly even has alps switches. Diatec maintains a webpage here http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=8, but my weak google-fu has not shown where I might such a board available for purchase. Any direction to this hyperlink or a reasonable seller is appreciated.

It is like a hhkb jp actually for the row 2. I like my hhkb jp by the way.

[belowgeek]

Dear Oracle,

Which mechanical switch should I choose if I am looking to use it mainly for typing? I know that clicky switches are great (MX Blues, Razer Greens), but aside from the ones I've mentioned, are there any more switches that are perfect for typing?

[taylorswiftttttt]

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[y11971alex]

Is it worth buying around 30 M122s for $10 each

I can't think of any use for them unless you have a large-scale project going on.

[taylorswiftttttt]

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[y11971alex]

Is it worth buying around 30 M122s for $10 each

I can't think of any use for them unless you have a large-scale project going on.

Will people buy them for $30 shipped?

I honestly don't care about making a profit. I just want them to be used.

Model M 122 keyboards are not typically in demand by the keyboard community. The Model F 122 is popular because of its construction's being amenable to the ANSI layout. You can't modify the Model M in the same way with the same level of effort. $30 shipped may be OK, provided your buyers already have the required converter.

[PollandAkuma]

Dear Oracle,

Which mechanical switch should I choose if I am looking to use it mainly for typing? I know that clicky switches are great (MX Blues, Razer Greens), but aside from the ones I've mentioned, are there any more switches that are perfect for typing?

Topre is good, I like linears, and clears are also really good. Cherry MX clears, zealios, mod switches...

[taylorswiftttttt]

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[taylorswiftttttt]

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[orihalcon]

Some Instructions are linked in the ebay listing that goes through how to program the Soarer's Converter that I wrote based on Soarer's instructions that may be a little easier to follow with examples for each step. Hope that helps!

[u-ra]

I happened upon a Highscreen branded G81-3081 while dumping some old stuff in a recycling centre. Are the caps MX compatible? They're nice thick dye subs.

[taylorswiftttttt]

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[fohat]

This is probably a really stupid and obvious question, but how do you remap keys when using an orihalcon converter

Wcass gives an easy method in reply #560 of the guide in the Geekhack thread:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17 ... #msg708153

[cml]

I happened upon a Highscreen branded G81-3081 while dumping some old stuff in a recycling centre. Are the caps MX compatible? They're nice thick dye subs.

This may be of interest to you.

wiki/Cherry_MY#Keycap_compatibility_with_Cherry_MX

[u-ra]

This may be of interest to you.

wiki/Cherry_MY#Keycap_compatibility_with_Cherry_MX

Thank you, I've been doing some research since returning from the recyclers.

While the switches feel every bit as shitty as everyone said they would, the keycaps are *wonderful*, if a little bit dirty. Gonna soak them with some denture tabs over night.