Another Model F refurbish project diary

[fohat]

I think this is what I'll go with.

Silicone Sheet, 50A Durometer, 0.125" (3.175mm), 36" x 12". The price jump to 40A is huge!

I would not recommend that at all - my guess is that it is far too thick and stiff.

Michael's craft foam starts out at 1/16" (1.5mm) thick and compresses significantly from there with pressure.

[just_add_coffee]

Ok ... 0.062" it is. I've ordered the silicone sheet, but I'll still run by Michael's and purchase a sheet of EVA foam. I've got another old Model F coming in, so this won't be my last refurb project. Having both on hand will give me a chance to compare the two materials.

[andrewjoy]

I just want to add that America's reluctance to adopt the metric system is pissing me off this morning.

You would have more luck getting the entire world to adopt the Dozenal system ( that we all totaly should by the way) than getting the US to switch to metric.

[just_add_coffee]

You would have more luck getting the entire world to adopt the Dozenal system ( that we all totaly should by the way) than getting the US to switch to metric.

I had no idea Dozenal System was a thing.

[Parak]

Ok ... 0.062" it is. I've ordered the silicone sheet, but I'll still run by Michael's and purchase a sheet of EVA foam. I've got another old Model F coming in, so this won't be my last refurb project. Having both on hand will give me a chance to compare the two materials.

FWIW, I tried 40A silicone for a model F before. Doesn't work at all as that's still way too hard. The problem is that the compression seems okay with just one barrel, but there's almost zero compression when it's spread out across the entire keyboard. Original foam gives some clues as to how much give (it's a lot) foam was expected to have. The point is to have all barrels be wobble free due to being firmly pressed to the PCB by the foam, and due to the variances (even board to board) of the curve of the two plates, there needs to be a fair amount of give to the foam.

[just_add_coffee]

FWIW, I tried 40A silicone for a model F before. Doesn't work at all as that's still way too hard. The problem is that the compression seems okay with just one barrel, but there's almost zero compression when it's spread out across the entire keyboard. Original foam gives some clues as to how much give (it's a lot) foam was expected to have. The point is to have all barrels be wobble free due to being firmly pressed to the PCB by the foam, and due to the variances (even board to board) of the curve of the two plates, there needs to be a fair amount of give to the foam.

Do you think 1/16" 10A silicone would be appropriate?

[Parak]

I haven't worked with that, but it seems way more expensive than epdm/neoprene while being potentially less durable. Unless you need temperature resistance.

[just_add_coffee]

I haven't worked with that, but it seems way more expensive than epdm/neoprene while being potentially less durable. Unless you need temperature resistance.

Yesterday, your previous link just showed an empty McMaster-Carr page for me and I wasn't able to see exactly what you were talking about. However, it seems to work now, and I wasted no time ordering 5 feet of it ... $19!

This materials discussion has turned WAY more complicated than I imagined it would be. Silicone foam, silicone rubber, Neoprene, Neoprene Sponge, EVA foam, EPDM, Blended EPDM, Durometer, closed cell v. open cell ... rip out hair.

I wasn't able to cancel the 50 shore_a silicone sheet in time, so I'll get to see what that looks like before sending it back. I'd still like to try some extra soft silicone one day; I mean, if the stuff is good enough for breast implants, it's gotta be good enough for my Model F, right?

So I should have the Weather- and Abrasion-Resistant Foam Sheet Blended EPDM, Ultra Soft, 1/16" Thick, 42" Wide and the Michael's EVA Foam (probably without the glittered side) this week and I'll get to check them out side by side.

[fohat]

This materials discussion has turned WAY more complicated than I imagined it would be. Silicone foam, silicone rubber, Neoprene, Neoprene Sponge, EVA foam, EPDM, Blended EPDM, Durometer, closed cell v. open cell ... rip out hair.

I feel like you people are obsessing about this. IBM originally used a thin foam rubber with a light rubbery "skin" on one side. Almost anything today would be better.

Personally, I have used several materials including a very thin soft neoprene foam that wcass sent me and a closed-cell EPE from packing materials, but I honestly feel that the 1/16" craft foam from Michael's at $1 (per 12"x18" sheet or whatever) is just the right thickness and feel. With a 5/8" leather punch and a block of wood you can do the whole thing in 10-20 minutes.

Attempting to imagine what re-assembly is going to be like before you have actually done it is mysterious. After you have "been around the block" a few times it will become a lot more clear to you.

[just_add_coffee]

Attempting to imagine what re-assembly is going to be like before you have actually done it is mysterious. After you have "been around the block" a few times it will become a lot more clear to you.

I think also having a board without the original mat with some resemblance to what it was new has been a problem.

And you're probably right about the obsessing. I mean, this particular board worked wonderfully with this ...

... as the mat. Obviously this stuff isn't rocket surgery.

[ekeppel]

I just now came across this thread and...Oh noes! My shoddy craftsmanship on one of my first foam replacements has come to light, I see. Sorry about those flowers, just_add_coffee.

Yeah, it's not very special looking material, and it really isn't. It's simple shelf / drawer liner, but it works pretty well and you can add as many layers as you like in different places if there are certain parts of the board that are looser than others, ie. the F122.

The other day when I was in Harbor Freight I noticed that they have black or grey toolshelf liner of two different thicknesses. The thinner of the two looked like it might make a nice foam to try, but I was in a rush and didn't get any. Maybe something to check out if you're looking for easily available materials, though I suppose not everywhere has a HF store nearby either.

Btw, in case you are wondering what those red things are on the space bar stabilizer wire, they are anti-rattle covers that I got from stripping some small gauge wire and using just the sheath. I really don't like rattle, so I do stuff like this as well as adding a small amount of Kapton tape to larger wire stabs like on the shift, enter, or backspace, depending on the keyboard.

[just_add_coffee]

I just now came across this thread and...Oh noes! My shoddy craftsmanship on one of my first foam replacements has come to light, I see. Sorry about those flowers, just_add_coffee.

No worries. I didn't mean to come across as demeaning your work. The fact is that the keyboard worked and sounded awesome and that shelf liner was in pristine condition. It's just that I had never opened a Model F before and so the flowers were a bit of a surprise.

I may swing by Harbor Freight and check out what you're talking about. I still need to go to Michaels. I had started making the mat yesterday with a foam from McMaster-Carr and I had trouble cutting it straight. It also ripped when I tried to remove the painter's tape that I had holding it in place.

The weather here in Seattle hasn't been very helpful either, making priming and painting difficult. But hopefully I'll have this done in the next three weeks or so.

[ekeppel]

In case you were wondering how I cut the holes. I made a hole punch from a small hole saw that I ground down on a grinder to give it an edge, lol. Depending on the material, you can also then mount that hole punch/saw in a drill and simply slice your way through tougher material.

Off Topic: Btw, *thumbs up* on the LeatherMan Charge. I have the same one, and being a SAK devotee all of my life, I never knew what I was missing until getting the Charge last year. Did you figure out the bottle opener right away? Only a couple of weeks ago did I realize that the tool needs to be *open* while using it. When it's closed, the clearance is off somewhere and the tip of the opener only just barely can catch on the lid of a beer bottle. Open the tool up and the opener suddenly works perfectly, lol.

[just_add_coffee]

Work on ALL the keyboards!



And a thank you to fohat for (gently) cajoling me into doing the Model M spacebar conversion.

[__red__]

So which foam did you end up using?

[just_add_coffee]

So which foam did you end up using?

This one ... 8647K102. Not the easiest stuff to work with. Next time, I'm going to try the EVA foam. I've got three more Model Fs that I'd like to work on, including the F107 in my avatar.

[ekeppel]

That keyboard is really coming along nicely. Great work!

[just_add_coffee]

That keyboard is really coming along nicely. Great work!

Thanks! Definitely been a learning experience.

[just_add_coffee]

In other news ...

IMG_20170419_155334.jpg

[seebart]

In other news ...

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[taylorswiftttttt]

removed

[seebart]

My question is what the case might look like...

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[just_add_coffee]

But... why?

You're asking the wrong question.

Besides, it's just vinyl wrap, Unicomp keys, and relegendables. The case is being repainted white, so it won't be quite as garish once its completed.

Unless I decide to implement the RGB lighting.

[__red__]

Unless I decide to implement the RGB lighting.

Do eeeeet!

Actually, not kidding. Maybe we should do a keyboard building google hangout on a weekly basis where those who love the lead, code, and caps just stream while we work..

[just_add_coffee]

Unless I decide to implement the RGB lighting.

Do eeeeet!

Actually, not kidding. Maybe we should do a keyboard building google hangout on a weekly basis where those who love the lead, code, and caps just stream while we work..

I'd be up for it! I could adjust my schedule to whatever is most convenient for everyone else.

So what do you have in mind?

[andrewjoy]

In other news ...

IMG_20170419_155334.jpg

Richard Hunter Harris Is spinning in his grave right now , you ruined his switch !

[just_add_coffee]

In other news ...

IMG_20170419_155334.jpg

Richard Hunter Harris Is spinning in his grave right now , you ruined his switch !

Probably. But then again, Mr. Harris wasn't an artiste. Heck he probably didn't even wear a beret!

[andrewjoy]

I actually thing the plate looks ok. It would be nice as a cheeky bit of colour that you can catch a glance at through the space between the switches, like a black stocking with red lace at the top .

But with them reledgables ..... colour explosion.


And hey i knows art!

http://www.fact.co.uk/people/staff/andrew-joy.aspx

[__red__]

hmmm, I'm local to him and friendly enough with my local IBM sales drones to probably get an autograph

[__red__]

I'd be up for it! I could adjust my schedule to whatever is most convenient for everyone else.

So what do you have in mind?

Okay, I just set up a series of cameras for my workspace:

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I attached "solder-cam-0":

WIN_20170421_12_19_39_Pro.jpg (889.16 KiB) Viewed 5686 times

... and as it's on a boom, high:

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Low (has focus issues):

WIN_20170421_12_26_25_Pro.jpg (76.87 KiB) Viewed 5686 times

so we have "solder-cam-2":

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Which has this view:

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