Noone's posted photos of the Tektronix keyboards to Wiki after bully?

[Menuhin]

As title.
Are people serious about the Wiki or is it just a culture here to enjoy initial bullying of the newbies?

photos-f62/tektronix-terminal-keyboard- ... 15240.html

( keyboards-f2/an-obituary-of-a-keyboard- ... 15098.html )

photos-f62/tektronix-keyboard-with-dial-t15749.html

[seebart]

You're kidding right? This is some sort of lousy joke? Why don't you do it yourself then instead of posting this nonsense?!

[Menuhin]

@seebart

After receiving so many PMs from you elder with intense emotions, I actually still didn't know I can edit the Wiki.
Sorry about not knowing that. I have always been thinking DT is owned and controlled by the paid users here and especially by a few numbers of louder forum elders.

If you can now calm down, please post a pointer here to let me know how to edit the Wiki.
I will try yo learn how does editing the Wiki work despite probably not so good at it.

[seebart]

The only "intense emotions" your getting from me are for this TROLL shit post.

Anyone registered at DT can add data to the wiki !! I send you a PM soon.

If you find DT is too much "owned and controlled by the paid users here and especially by a few numbers of louder forum elders" do send webwit and / or matt3o a PM.

[Menuhin]

For example, I don't personally know anyone here in the keyboard forums.
I will not and have never sent a scolding message (with intense words for scolding and cursing in more than one language) as my first message (or the first few messages in this case) to anyone in any online forum.

In the first place:
Why so serious?

So I can see now this is a misunderstanding.

I know it is difficult to change one's character, there is a correlation between high blood pressure and heart attack to being too worked up, so
Please don't be so worked up in the future.

Give you a flower: @}-,-`-

[seebart]

This was scolding enough I'd say:

Noone's posted photos of the Tektronix keyboards to Wiki after bully?

Are people serious about the Wiki or is it just a culture here to enjoy initial bullying of the newbies?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Am I missing something? The front page does say, "This wiki is part of the Deskthority forum - sign in with your forum account and start editing!" Is this really not clear enough to everyone?

Having posed the question many times of how people think the content gets onto the wiki (after all, it's not writing itself), nobody is ever willing to answer. I always figured they preferred to live in denial about having any responsibility towards it; do they instead believe that the Illuminati are solely responsible, and that they really don't have the privilege to do so?

The wiki keeps track of who did what and when (so you can check any page and see precisely who did what, going right back to when the wiki was set up — just go to Recent Changes, or click View History at the top of any page). If someone else were to upload your images, in effect MediaWiki (the wiki software) would "credit" them with your work. If you upload images, your name gets attached to them.

[seebart]

Am I missing something? The front page does say, "This wiki is part of the Deskthority forum - sign in with your forum account and start editing!" Is this really not clear enough to everyone?

Having posed the question many times of how people think the content gets onto the wiki (after all, it's not writing itself), nobody is ever willing to answer. I always figured they preferred to live in denial about having any responsibility towards it; do they instead believe that the Illuminati are solely responsible, and that they really don't have the privilege to do so?

The wiki keeps track of who did what and when (so you can check any page and see precisely who did what, going right back to when the wiki was set up — just go to Recent Changes, or click View History at the top of any page). If someone else were to upload your images, in effect MediaWiki (the wiki software) would "credit" them with your work. If you upload images, your name gets attached to them.

No, you are right. Of course no one can be forced to add anyting just as no one can expect to have any data added for them. From what I understand Menuhin had some serious misconceptions about DT in gerneral, I think he understands now. This is not a "closed elite-scumbag" forum and webwit would not have that. Chief duck ahoi.

[Menuhin]

Won't quote the details of the PMs I received, no matter how many and the wordings, about which I stayed mostly nonreactive. After all, I see this was a misunderstanding.

The reason I see DT as a forum run by a few elders is that. There were many times, that newer members were greeted by "us vs you", and in a lot of conversations, especially those involve conflicts the words "we" and "us" were used a lot, as if the implication is that, this is their place that they own, they control, and that new members not agreeing or not obeying (not really disobeying any forum rules in many cases) should leave "us".
I always don't fully understand whom "we" or "us" referred to in those conversations that I read.
And therefore I have some misunderstanding about how DT is run.

I try to receive members newer than me more nicely or at least in a less intimidating manner if I can.
At least they share a hobby with me! I think.

P.s. I know almost everybody on DT can be very passionate about this hobby (if they are not selling or making keyboards and keyboard parts), I always tell myself that there is no need to have extra conflicts in life because of a hobby, a hobby that I have in the first place because I want to make my life more enjoyable in one way or another. What's more, in real life, some time conflicts can be resolved after one beer or two, but members here don't get chance to meetup too often to have beer.

At the end of the day, everyone can get things done in some simple functioning rubber-dome keyboards, this is still a hobby that not many people outside the forums feel important or even understand or feel important to try to understand - no matter how I am still enjoying it.

Spoiler:

[Menuhin]

Am I missing something? The front page does say, "This wiki is part of the Deskthority forum - sign in with your forum account and start editing!" Is this really not clear enough to everyone?
...

Thanks for the info.
Sorry for not noticing that.

A practical note about the front page notice:
I access the DT Wiki through Google almost in all of my visits, and I didn't know which page is the actual front page of the Wiki until I tried looking for it. I think I am not the only user doing that.
Similarly, I believe not many people visit the front page of Wikipedia.org first, in order to search for specific content there.
Perhaps adding a tool-tip on the template of wiki entries may make it noticeable for those who do not visit the front page.

Spoiler:

Source of the image above:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... new_hobby/

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Put a tooltip where?

[Menuhin]

Not a web designer myself.

I made the Tool tip suggestion because I think such a message should not occupy too much space.
Otherwise, it can be below the WIKI logo on the left panel. as another box below the "Tools" box on the left panel, or some space at the very bottom.

If the long sentence can be shortened to "contribute by adding your entry" or just "contribute", then it can really be added as in a tool-tip style at the top, either next to "discussion" or next to "login", and upon logging in, the welcome page can provide further information and instructions or links to add or edit entries.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A few months ago I sent out a bunch of e-mails to people I know (technical and non-technical, including people in the industry), to gauge opinion on the wiki front page, to see how opinion stacked up against mine. I think I only got two responses, from Meryl Miller and from Tammy Hanson of Apple Rescue of Denver. From that, I still lack enough data to decide.

I notice with a lot of wikis that the front page is a faint mirage: there's nothing really there. The Deskthority wiki front page makes it very clear just how comprehensive it is, and that it means business. I want to subtitle it the "input technology encyclopaedia" but I will refrain from that until someone has finally stepped up and written up the various electromagnetic sensing technologies, since for me that's the last critical piece of the picture: you need to be able to learn in general how your keyboard works, no matter what type it is.

The down side is that the front page struggles from information overload.

Anything placed below Tools is lower down than the existing "Deskthority wiki help" and "MediaWiki help" links that already exist in the box above that. What you're looking for is already in the sidebar (defined here, by the way: [wiki]MediaWiki:Sidebar[/wiki]).

The whole sidebar seems a bit overloaded in general. Tools, I don't off-hand know how you configure it (it just appears as "TOOLS" in the sidebar page). I don't know that we need the MediaWiki help link (that could fall under Deskthority wiki help) and I'd remove both the popular pages and all pages links (the latter seems especially pointless). Random page may be useful to some; I use it, but I can just as easily use Firefox's fantastic URL recall if it's a seldom-used facility. Deskthority wiki help may be more suited to the Navigation box at the top where it can be observed more readily.

That's just my feeling. I'm not sure that the "Latest posts from the Deskthority wiki talk forum" section helps with the sense of overload, and maybe each of the boxes could be trimmed a bit to make it a little less intimidating.


A help page that appears after logging in is a whole other matter since it would be a real pain if you're trying to get back to the page you were on — it would need a "stop harrassing me with this" checkbox. I'm sure this is all doable with a MediaWiki plugin, but honestly I do expect people in this community to have a bit of resourcefulness and not need to be completely spoon fed.

[Mr.Nobody]

I don't know what's happened in PMs, but all new comers get treated somewhat harshly by elder or self-entitled senior members of any group, this is a pychological pattern, in fact, it's written in textbooks. That's why I stayed perfectly poised when they bombarded me for travial matters, when the last a few posts of mine in the "simulation theory" thread were deleted although contents were perfectly okay,generally speaking, people are biased and emotional rather than impartial and logical especially when you show them what's actually going on, sometimes people kill the witnesses and destroy the evidence just to maintain what they believe need to be maintained, at the time, I simply knew what they were doing, why they did it and how they would do it and how everything would draw to an end.There is a whole set of machenisms behind the behaviors...when you know the mechanisms, the whole thing won't arouse your emotion at all, it is not a matter but a game. The typical pattern repeats itself like a cliche. The name of the game is :Human behaviors are highly irrational but highly predictable.


EDIT:
If you know people as much as you know how keyboards work,you won't hate or resent people when they do certain things, just like you won't hate keyboards that are not in working order.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

… all new comers get treated somewhat harshly by elder or self-entitled senior members of any group …

That is not true here. You are grossly over extrapolating.

[Menuhin]

...
The Deskthority wiki front page makes it very clear ... it means business
...

It's really nice to have a member like you here in DT - you are a typical super serious DT guy AND a handful of those more knowledge-oriented.
I can see you put a lot of thoughts and effort in the Wiki - good job and well done.

I agree that the frontpage is overloaded with information - I really just may read the section titles when I see something like that, and it is a tough decision about what to keep and what to drop.

But the bigger problem is, I don't even visit the frontpage for my usage. Therefore I suggest putting important notice on the 'SideBar', or near the top.
The way I use the Wiki is: Ctrl-K to focus on my search bar in browser, and then type the search term, e.g. "Filco Zero", Google or DuckDuckGo etc, points me to the page - usually entries of Deskthority's Wiki will be on top (so Wiki guys of DT can be proud here) or some GH/DT threads. Upon getting to the Wiki entry, if I want to search further, there is a search box on the top right corner - and this is how I continue my search with other search terms if I need to.
Now you see how I manage to use the Wiki and never visit the Wiki frontpage.

The reason is visiting the Wiki frontpage to search has at least two more steps to do before beginning the search: visit the Wiki frontpage by some mouse click or from the location bar, eyes locate on the search box and click on the search box and type the search term - then finally some search results appear.

[Menuhin]

When most regular forum members or Wiki workers asked the occasional visitors or new forum members to post or share information and pictures of some keyboard related material, these more senior members will usually use terms like "OUR Wiki" vs "your help/info/post", "your keyboard".

When these users are kind enough to share their info, not all DT members despite serious are knowledgeable like some of you to have added value response, their typical response is however still a nice one, like, "it will help OUR Wiki..." or like "good addition to OUR Wiki..." etc.
I won't say these wordings are misleading, but I think the more appropriate response is a further request like, "Please spend some time to add it to the Wiki - which we see also belongs to you. If you don't know any markup language which is required to edit the Wiki, the Wiki has a link to some tutorials for you to get familiar with some of the markup language applicable to the Wiki".

I don't think DT forum panel members (those who are insiders to manage the forum) expect or can imagine adding entries to the Wiki be mandatory for the users here. Everyone has their own busy lives (even those who are doing businesses related to keyboards here), and not necessary have or want to spend so much of their spare time digging into information or recycling center / GoodWill for keyboards.
What I did want downloading an almost half a GigaByte brochure, and took 50+ photos, all done after a tired working day and had to push myself to complete these at 2:00 am as I don't really have time. Well, perhaps I am just not as nice as the many many other majority of DT members who all add their keyboard photos and stuff to the Wiki without even being asked and potentially also spending time to learn related markup languages.

[seebart]

You still repeat this nonsense:

OUR Wiki" vs "your help/info/post", "your keyboard".

You still find the time to post looong threads with flowery wording about ravished new users when you are really ONLY talking about your personal misconceptions about DT, regardless of any wording anyone used.

Just because you may have less time than someone else does not mean you can expect them to do work for you after your sniveling stories.

Close to nothing is mandatory here at DT, especially not post like this that infer bullying which is absolute impertinence combined with advanced hypocrisy.

[kbdfr]

seebart is getting angry, it seems

[seebart]

seebart is getting angry, it seems

I was sligtly "grumpy" about this yesterday yes. Nothing like Chyros and his *paid HD* content though.

The title of this thread is fathomless hypocrisy to put it mildly.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I won't say these wordings are misleading, but I think the more appropriate response is a further request like, "Please spend some time to add it to the Wiki - which we see also belongs to you. If you don't know any markup language which is required to edit the Wiki, the Wiki has a link to some tutorials for you to get familiar with some of the markup language applicable to the Wiki".

You want this to be written out in full every time?

As for the front page, I think there is a balance to be struck within technical pursuits. I would like to believe that a person who is curious about the wiki would possess the mental aptitude to try such things as the wiki front page or the log-in link first, before accusing the community of bizarre wrongdoings. While it's true that the front page is seldom the point of entry, it's the very first sidebar link ("Main page") and you can also reach it by clicking the logo above that, and it's a good place to start looking if you want to know how to take the next steps.

My perspective is that, if you're not able to figure out this much, are your contributions to the wiki going to be more trouble than they are worth?

I also remain to be convinced that there truly is a general perception that the wiki is run by the Illuminati. I think this may just be inside your head.

What I did want downloading an almost half a GigaByte brochure …

You wanted half a brochure? I didn't realise GIgabyte did keyboards — I see they made another one of those silly rimless keyboards. Looks like a Dell KB1421 that's been squashed.

[Menuhin]

Okay, sorry to be a bit provocative.

...
... looong threads
... regardless of any wording anyone used.
...
does not mean you can expect them to do work for you ...
...

DT has no PR policy, I understand. For a few instances, a few members getting grumpy doesn't mean it will be like that all the time in the whole DT. (DT is definitely more serious than say /r/MK though, and therefore here exists some more serious discussions about this hobby).

I just hope every forum elder can be nicer to new members in the future, not necessarily to me. I believe every elder can - even to a new member having more bullshit more nonsense than I do in your eyes and making posts even more lengthy than mine, you can still show them some love and patience.

Spoiler:

I won't say these wordings are misleading, but I think the more appropriate response is a further request like, "Please spend some time to add it to the Wiki - which we see also belongs to you. If you don't know any markup language which is required to edit the Wiki, the Wiki has a link to some tutorials for you to get familiar with some of the markup language applicable to the Wiki".

You want this to be written out in full every time?

I am not a lawyer by profession, but I tend to try to spell things out as clearly as it needs to be even in just casual conversations. It is sometimes necessary because slight wording difference can drive or prompt people to behave drastically differently.

A short version can be:
"You can edit this content into the DT Wiki too, especially if you know some markup languages."

...

What I did want downloading an almost half a GigaByte brochure …

You wanted half a brochure? I didn't realise GIgabyte did keyboards — I see they made another one of those silly rimless keyboards. Looks like a Dell KB1421 that's been squashed.

Sorry for the typos (*was -> want) and the weird capitalizing of gigabyte. I am talking about this Tektronix brochure.

http://manx-docs.org/collections/legali ... g_1987.pdf
I hope the link is correct.

...
... try such things as the wiki front page or the log-in link first, before accusing the community of bizarre wrongdoings. While it's true that the front page is seldom the point of entry, it's the very first sidebar link ("Main page") and you can also reach it by clicking the logo above that, and it's a good place to start looking if you want to know how to take the next steps.
...

Almost everyone uses the Wikipedia.org.
Does anyone here edited the Wikipedia? Only a small percentage I believe.
Not many people edit Wikipedia, even when they found the content sometimes not accurate for the information they are looking for - because editing the Wikipedia is not of their personal importance.

People will edit the Wikipedia on entries about themselves and their work, or on topics that they are really passionate about. Or on controversial topics, there are allegedly teams of hundreds of paid editing workers guarding these Wikipedia entries (with editing turnover rate of less than a few minutes) so as to make sure the content of these pages will always display according to certain agenda.

This is also true for the DT Wiki. Members are mostly users instead of providers of content. They don't edit it because the entries are not of their personal importance and they are not passionate enough about the certain topics. If an entry has the details of a secretive extramarital affair of a forum member, the irrelevant content will be taken down eventually, but the forum member involved probably wants to have the content taken down immediately.

I visited the DT Wiki frontpage less than 5 times and every time looked for search related terms instead of trying to read everything, and I didn't try to or think about the possibility of logging in either because the task at hand and my intention was always looking for certain information, but not trying to edit in anything. Similarly, when you see your assistant looking up things for you on Wikipedia and then suddenly gets sidetracked and switches his task into editing the Wikipedia and joining the editing discussions of some Wikipedia entries - everyone will think, WTF my assistant is doing here??

Illuminati do exist, my Italian friends told me.


And if illuminati edit the DT Wiki page, Daniel you will then be the head of illuminati.

But almost you are the head of illuminati, you see, it is difficult for any member to imagine editing the Wiki as their mandatory work, I am just one of them.
Upon request, I was passionate enough about a piece of keyboard history to spend time taking apart a keyboard and took some photos and posted them on the forum, I didn't think I have to do that.
I don't think that is or will ever be my work or duty either.

So, having a team of illuminati to edit the DT Wiki is essential, and among the forums, DT has already earned the fame of having a very useful Wiki about keyboards. These are not the results of just any regular member and occasional visitor, this is the hard work of the illuminati and those few who joined the work of illuminati on a few topics.

I am just into this hobby, and many forum elders are real experts in the area. Therefore, I, like most of the newcomers, of course am relying on you guys who are experts. I can't say I may have any potential at all to contribute anything to the Wiki - as you see I have so many typos and my writing is so unqualified and lengthy, most of the time though having tried hard can't even write properly. Upon request, however, I am still willing to hand over related information to the Illuminati. I will check out the markup languages that apply to the DT Wiki too, eventually.

TL;DR

Illuminati do exist, forum elders have all been converted; resistance is futile, so please prepare to assimilate some markups into your own languages.

[seebart]

And if illuminati edit the DT Wiki page, Daniel you will then be the head of illuminati.

Oh boy...if you made wiki pages as long as your posts...

77e3b4bc3aca7dd200e50eb9f3975c77.jpg (23.44 KiB) Viewed 9720 times

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That PDF isn't half a gigabyte:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 21:31:30 GMT
Content-Type: application/pdf
Content-Length: 325219429
…

Wikipedia is more stringent: they prohibit original research. Information on Wikipedia must be referenced back to a reliable source.

My view on the Deskthority wiki is that it should be possible to determine the veracity of the material. What I am trying to prevent is having pages where the reader has no means to ascertain whether the information is accurate or not. For example, a number of people have added a note that keyboard X has been found with switch Y, and this has occurred with switches that are readily misidentified. How do I know that the switch was correctly identified? If I have my doubts, how do I check for myself? (Chances are whoever wrote it is long gone, or the keyboard is long gone.)

A specific case in point is the page on the "Marquardt switch" that cited a manufacturing timeframe of 1993 to 1999. I don't know where that information came from, and it's wrong. Marquardt Series 6184 was introduced in 1987 and discontinued in 2000, according to Marquardt themselves. (The 6184 drawing does indeed contain corresponding dates.) The page was wrong, but you couldn't make that determination.

I realise that we often have tentative ideas or mere suspicions, and that's fine. It just needs to be clear what the evidence is, and that the facts are uncertain. The facts may be wrong or misinterpreted, or only a small part of a larger picture. This isn't a problem: it only matters that everyone is clear about what we do and don't know for certain. If someone disagrees with the facts, they can see where the information came from, and how the conclusions were reached, and then reassess this in light of their own perspective or information. If the page simply states apparent facts without supporting evidence, then anyone who disagrees with the page will find resolving the conflicting information much harder.

To me, it's really not a huge deal, but so many people here seem to take offence at the idea that they may be wrong. They want people to believe them purely on the merit of their own word without having to prove anything, and how dare anyone question then. You only have to look at how many switches have been drastically misidentified to realise that we do need a level of control to regulate accuracy.

[Mr.Nobody]

So let's talk about anger and bullying.

1.You are not angry about others nor the thing triguers the emotion.
A husband comes back home and yells at his wife not because his wife does something wrong to trigue the anger although it seems so. Anger is there before you get angry, maybe you feel something in your life or in yourself is not good enough(but it's hard to find out and harder to admit it to yourself), it always happens in the form that some other people did something wrong and consequently you become mad at them, but in fact you are mad at yourself; you feel uncontented about yourself because you believe there are some goals you failed to achieve(more on this later) and have to settle with it...but the shame is there all the time.

2.Being angry is a decision.
Being angery gives you a sense of control and power, that's why people choose to get angry, yes it's a decision.The husband vents his anger toward his wife,because he might have got frustrated at workplace by someone or something which made him feel powerless and helpless and he knows his wife won't harm him in any way.No matter how frustrating the day is, he won't vent his anger toward someone who holds a pistol agaisnt his head and is willing to blast his brain onto the wall at anytime right? So beomg angry is a decision with certain target(or target group) in mind.Usually the targe is weaker than you are and safe to mess with.

3.Being a bully makes you feel powerful and strong.
Here comes the BULLY part: The husband feels powerless at workplace so he vents his anger toward his wife, his wife feels powerless to her husband so she vents her anger toward her son, the son feels powerless to his parents so he vents his anger toward some classmate at school who is younger or physically weaker...and this classmate boy might become a hacker or excellent video gamer some day, he is powerless obsecure and bullied in reality,but in the cyber world, he is powerful and in control...Everybody does this to get back some sort of sense of control and power to compensate the inner powerless-and-not-in-control self pychologically. But being powerful and in control are relative feelings not absolute ones, to feel powerful and in control, you need something or someone to be under control or look powerless in front of YOU.For instance to make yourself look good strong and smart you have to make someone look bad weak and stupid. That's why everybody becomes a bully at some time toward some one from time to time.

Then why we need this sense of control and power anyway?
It's about sense of security and self image, an organism(human, rat or worm) needs to have a sense of control over the environment in which s/he/it lives in to gain a sense of security to reassure himself, and human beings have the need to maintain the pychological self image. Yes, alongside food, water, air and sleep, we need this self image/identity thing to survive.

The sense of superiority provides huge sense of control and so in turn provides huge sense of security and satisfaction,it also provides huge help to maintain a positive self image. that's why people are so obsessed with money, knowledge, success and power,all those things enable you to feel powerful superior and in control and make you feel good about yourself.

Sense of control and power and self-image are all illusions, and you are paying high price maintaining them.
To a lab mouse, find the cheese as fast as possible and avoid the electrical shock possible as it can means being successful, the mouse is conditioned into this. Human beings are just a more complex version of lab mouse in a more complex version of maze we call it society, and the social conditioning starts as soon as an infant comes out of its mother's vagina; the difference between us and mice is quantitative not qualitative. The sense of control and power and self image are all illusions, you are gradually conditioned into what you think you are, and you are paying rather high price maintaining the illusions. The lab mouse has no control at all, the experimenter has, the mouse just has the illusion that it can control the environment to some extent and get what it wants through the "knowledge" it has learned. When this mouse is doing better than other mice, it might has some sense of superiority as well,but maybe it's only because the experimenter has given it a brain boosting dose. We human beings have an experimenter as well, we call GOD. So let's just relax, it's a game after all, it doesn't matter who gets the biggest cheese or who is the smartest, what matters is: to have fun, to enjoy life every day not suffer it. Next time you feel angry or complacent about your self, just remind yourself that the role you are playing is the mouse not the experimenter, and you are in a game set up by the experimenter, no need to take anything too seriously, otherwise, it may ruin your game and make you suffer like hell.

[kbdfr]

[…]

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Waitaminute … I'm the most boring person on the planet! Are you saying that I have competition?

[Mr.Nobody]

NO WORRY! You still are, I am no comparison to you, nobody is...there are computer geeks, keyboard geeks, switch geeks, and naturally there are human geeks, some people love going to park to watch birds, some others prefer watching people,differnt people into different things.