Alps Appreciation

[Hypersphere]

I've been experimenting with different slider/spring combinations in a Zenith Z-150 SKCL Green Alps board that I am click-modding with SKCM white (pine) Alps top housings and click leaves from a Northgate Omnikey 101. I measured the bottom-out weights using a container with varying amounts of steel screws as weights and weighing the container after it had just barely tripped the switch and bottomed out.

Here are the Slider/Spring/Bottom-out weights (grams) with the white top housings and white click leaves:

G/G/74 "ping"
G/W/65
W/G/74
W/W/55

G = green; W = white

Here are the Slider/Spring/Bottom-out weights with green top housings and no click leaves:

G/G/55 "ping"
G/W/ 50
W/G/55
W/W/50

These results are somewhat counterintuitive, but based on the results with the linear housings, they seem to indicate that white springs are a bit lighter than green springs.

In the white top housings with white click leaves, with either a green or white slider, the green springs resulted in an overall apparent weight of 74g. A green slider and white spring was somewhat lighter at 65g, and the lightest combination was a white slider and white spring, yielding an overall apparent weight of 55g.

I also noticed that the green/green combination resulted in "ping" in either type of top housing.

Overall, my preference is white top housing and click leaf with white slider and white spring.

If anyone tries this type of experiment, it would be interesting to compare results.

[Mattr567]

Now that's some clean Alps holy shit. Looks like this keyboard was never used. Feel's fantastic too.

[//gainsborough]

Overall, my preference is white top housing and click leaf with white slider and white spring.

Does the base of the switch and its switchplate make a huge different in feel and sound as well? How does your preference compare to just normal pine white alps?

edit: I'm actually surprised the color of the slider contributed that much to weighting. Did alps use different plastics between it's sliders?

edit II: Although, looking again at your data I noticed without the click leaf they are the same, so it must be a geometry of the sliders that are slightly different.

[alh84001]

Yes. It seems the slider material changed between gen1 and gen2 alps switches. New material seems a lot more slippery, at least that's the case with SKCM whites vs SKCM blues.

[Hypersphere]

Overall, my preference is white top housing and click leaf with white slider and white spring.

Does the base of the switch and its switchplate make a huge different in feel and sound as well? How does your preference compare to just normal pine white alps?

edit: I'm actually surprised the color of the slider contributed that much to weighting. Did alps use different plastics between it's sliders?

edit II: Although, looking again at your data I noticed without the click leaf they are the same, so it must be a geometry of the sliders that are slightly different.

Possibly the main difference between the base of the SKCL green and SKCM white Alps is the switchplate. The white Alps from the Omni 101 that I used have short white switchplates, whereas the SKCL green Alps have long gray switchplates.

I measured the bottom-out force of the SKCM white (pine) Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 -- it was 62 g.

I prefer the sound and feel of the hybrid green-white switches in the Zenith Z-150. The hybrids are a bit lighter (bottom-out force of 55g) and they have that "shick" sound that is reminiscent of SKCM blue Alps.

The green sliders are anatomically different from white sliders. The most apparent difference is their symmetry -- they lack the notch on the switchplate side that the white sliders have. The plastic of the green sliders is also less slippery than the plastic of the white sliders, (as pointed out by alh8400). The stock green switches appeared to have a thin film of dry lubricant on the sliders, but I sonicated them before use and did not apply any lubricant before using them in my tests.

[//gainsborough]

Hmmm. That's really interesting. I might try this the next time I get a batch of pine white alps. If only I could get my z-150 to work....

[atrere]

I have found a calculator (Monroe 2125) with what appears to be SKCC Black switches and pseudo-DSA caps. Further investigation will occur, with pictures, later tonight, but for now: Does anyone know anything about SKCC Blck? The page on the wiki is blank, though it shows up on the list of SKCC switches.

[seebart]

We don't know much, oddly enough there is one black SKCC switch in my Apple M0110. It feels a little heavier than the cream switches:

wiki/Apple_M0110

800px-Apple_M0110_Alps_SKCC.jpg (62.37 KiB) Viewed 6585 times

Looking foreward to your pictures!

[atrere]

https://imgur.com/a/nk7g0
Here's an album, prior to cleaning and disassembly.
With some switch-against-switch testing, I can confirm that SKCC Black does appear to be heavier than the Tall Cream in the M0110a.

[Hypersphere]

Hmmm. That's really interesting. I might try this the next time I get a batch of pine white alps. If only I could get my z-150 to work....

I bought an internal converter from Orihalcon for my Z-150. It works just fine, and it includes the Soarer converter, so the board becomes completely and reversibly programmable.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

https://imgur.com/a/nk7g0
Here's an album, prior to cleaning and disassembly.
With some switch-against-switch testing, I can confirm that SKCC Black does appear to be heavier than the Tall Cream in the M0110a.

Tentatively I'd call yours "grey" and seebart's "black", but it may be just a matter of pigmentation:

http://imgur.com/a/BUJCJ

Not enough data.

[atrere]

Well hot damn that's some good documentation. If pictures of my calculator in a further state of disassembly would be appreciated, I'll definitely provide once I'm back at it. And they DO look more grey... intriguing.

[Wingklip]

Random Alps love...

Naniiiii????1?1??1?1?213311
Sega teraduribu? How many murican eagles did that cost?

[Chyros]

The Teradrive is one of the best-looking boards ever made IMO. My SM-101 is a great board, and it's in spectacular condition, but it's not the looker the Teradriver is. Shame it's so hard to get hold of in the West.

[seebart]

Thanks for the images atrere!

https://imgur.com/a/nk7g0
Here's an album, prior to cleaning and disassembly.
With some switch-against-switch testing, I can confirm that SKCC Black does appear to be heavier than the Tall Cream in the M0110a.

Tentatively I'd call yours "grey" and seebart's "black", but it may be just a matter of pigmentation:

http://imgur.com/a/BUJCJ

Not enough data.

One imgur lot is still not very much data, in respect to cream SKCC there is little information. I'd call atrere black SKCC's.

Since it seems to be necro time now:

IMGP7735.JPG (974.32 KiB) Viewed 6522 times

IMGP7729.JPG (955.35 KiB) Viewed 6522 times

[andrewjoy]

Is there any ALPS 60% kits that are avilable to just buy ? i need somthing to put my modded linier dampend white alps in .

I also have a full set off SGI caps to put on them

I think it is relatively convenient to PM Hasu (at GH, or here?) for Alps64 PCB and then order a steel plate from Lasergist when you are in Europe.
Other 60% PCB / kit can only be found in the Marketplace I believe.

ALPS 64 PCB on the way !!!

My Plan is as follows.

Dampened white alps with the tactile lief removed, ultrasoniced and lubed
Re use the SGI plate
SGI caps and layout
SGI "like" colour for the case.

What i need now is 2 blank 1x1 bottom row caps that will match well with the SGI caps for in between Ctrl and alt

[atrere]

https://imgur.com/a/J1paR
Here's another album, this time of the PCB markings and a direct comparison of a disassembled Grey switch next to a Tall Cream.

[Mattr567]

Some extra pics I took today

[//gainsborough]

Aside from the granite, what boards are those, mattr567?

[Mattr567]

Aside from the granite, what boards are those, mattr567?

Well the SKCM Brown is also the same Granite. Alpha's and arrow keys Brown rest Cream (non damp)

SKCL Green LED pic is a Zenith 163-73 and the SKCM Cream (non damp) is a NeXT. Really love how clean that board is. Came that way and the switches are pristine!

[//gainsborough]

Aside from the granite, what boards are those, mattr567?

Well the SKCM Brown is also the same Granite. Alpha's and arrow keys Brown rest Cream (non damp)

SKCL Green LED pic is a Zenith 163-73 and the SKCM Cream (non damp) is a NeXT. Really love how clean that board is. Came that way and the switches are pristine!

Yeah that mounting plate on the NeXT is clean enough to eat off of, haha.

[fruitalgorithm]

Quick PSA if you plan on getting Lightcycle DSA: All of SP's Alps stabilised caps uses Cherry MX stabilisers, make sure when you draft a plate file to send to the laser cutting shop, take this into account.

So I can't use them on KBP v60 or Matias boards?

[zslane]

The LightCycle DSA keycaps will work just fine with Matias stabilizers. The only issue is the 2.75u SHIFT key. The positions of the stabilizer inserts on the DSA key will not be close enough to the outer edge of the keycap to grab onto the short Matias stabilizer wire ends. To solve this, I intend to repurpose a Matias spacebar stabilizer wire.

[Zombimuncha]

I found that the 2.75u wire from the Matias kit WAS long enough to use with SP caps. It's actually a little longer than the one that came with my KBP V80. The trick is to bend it in a bit at the bottom corners. Cutting down a spacebar wire is also an option. Either way you're gonna be bending wires.

[cumwagondeluxe]

Aside from the granite, what boards are those, mattr567?

Well the SKCM Brown is also the same Granite. Alpha's and arrow keys Brown rest Cream (non damp)

SKCL Green LED pic is a Zenith 163-73 and the SKCM Cream (non damp) is a NeXT. Really love how clean that board is. Came that way and the switches are pristine!

How do SKCM Creams compare with Browns? I think I remember someone saying they were really similar on here earlier, might have to look into em if that's the case..

My first taste of alps were SKCM Oranges which I thought were the best mechanical tactile switch I'd tried up to that point (not including Topre), then I got these ultra clean SKCM Browns (Seriously not sure that this board was ever used for any significant period of time) and I'm pretty sure I like these more than Topre even.

[Hypersphere]

@cumwagondeluxe: IMO, SKCM brown Alps are in a class by themselves. They have a taut feel with a very pronounced tactility. Their actuation force has been cited as 75 cN. Their heaviness is due mainly to the pressure exerted by the tactile assembly rather than the return spring. The tactile assembly is essentially a modified switchplate with a tactile leaf attached rather than just a tactile leaf as found in other tactile Alps switches.

Although SKCM cream Alps are rated at 70 cN actuation, to me, creams feel much lighter than browns.

[Menuhin]

@cumwagondeluxe: IMO, SKCM brown Alps are in a class by themselves. They have a taut feel with a very pronounced tactility. Their actuation force has been cited as 75 cN. Their heaviness is due mainly to the pressure exerted by the tactile assembly rather than the return spring. The tactile assembly is essentially a modified switchplate with a tactile leaf attached rather than just a tactile leaf as found in other tactile Alps switches.

Although SKCM cream Alps are rated at 70 cN actuation, to me, creams feel much lighter than browns.

So you have both: creams and browns. And you tasted oranges too.

How do you compare creams to browns and to oranges, and to whites etc? There were so much hype about it a few pages before in this thread. Rarity often makes things more hyped, so it is good to hear from some other voice.

[mike52787]

SKCM cream has a similar tactility to oranges, and a weighting in between oranges and browns. which I feel are too light and too heavy. SKCM creams just have the perfect weighting and tactility to make a great switch. give them a try.

[Menuhin]

The Teradrive is one of the best-looking boards ever made IMO. My SM-101 is a great board, and it's in spectacular condition, but it's not the looker the Teradriver is. Shame it's so hard to get hold of in the West.

It's quite handsome - I hope the caps can be doubleshot too.
Industrial IBM boards, SGI Granite, these are all handsome - some shades of grey and not just in plain beige.

Many modern keyboards are lost in the blinky backlight, and spaceship like design.
Blinky spaceship look seems to be the mainstream design of modern gaming inspired keyboards.

[Menuhin]

SKCM cream has a similar tactility to oranges, and a weighting in between oranges and browns. which I feel are too light and too heavy. SKCM creams just have the perfect weighting and tactility to make a great switch. give them a try.

The hype is kind of from you.

For MX if I prefer MX greens to MX blues, and MX blacks to MX reds, and MX clears to MX browns.
Do you think I'm 'heavy-handed' enough to skip SKCM creams to just use SKCM browns?