Alps Appreciation

[mike52787]

Thanks for your oppinions, guys!
How do undamped cream alps compare to Blue alps?

undampened cream is pretty much the tactile counterpart of SKCM blue. same delicious sound, same smooth snappy tactility.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Are they as rare, or even rarer than blue alps? I know it was in only a copule of keyboards, but anyway...They might be omnipresent. OR NOT XD

[seebart]

Are they as rare, or even rarer than blue alps?

Where you and me are yes. In other parts of the world possibly not.

[mike52787]

Are they as rare, or even rarer than blue alps? I know it was in only a copule of keyboards, but anyway...They might be omnipresent. OR NOT XD

well... the only real supply of them recently dried up. so I would say so.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Are they as rare, or even rarer than blue alps?

Where you and me are yes. In other parts of the world possibly not.

Europe... Well... it sucks. But we have RGB Srart. Yaaay...?
Anyway, Off: Do we, Europeans, have a switch type that's rare in the USA, but we had it?

mike52787: That's unfortunate, Can I get somewhere NOS SKCM Pine switches?

Are Blue Alps prone to lose their tactility, and clickyness, just as any other SKCM switch?

[seebart]

Europe... Well... it sucks. But we have RGB Srart. Yaaay...?

Not if you like Cherry MX.

Anyway, Off: Do we, Europeans, have a switch type that's rare in the USA, but we had it?

Nixies. RAFI possibly.

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Europe... Well... it sucks. But we have RGB Srart. Yaaay...?

Not if you like Cherry MX.

Anyway, Off: Do we, Europeans, have a switch type that's rare in the USA, but we had it?

Nixies. RAFI possibly.

Nixies are hard to find but I didn't know that they were rarer in the US. I haven't tried MX Blues yet, my MX board 3.0 is somewhere being shipped between Germany and Hungary (I started to worry about it recently), so I can't say I'm a big MX fan so far, but I like the idea of MX Blacks. A linear switch done well, and would be better if wasn't so scratchy, and could be a bit lighter. I Like SKCx, but they are too dust-allergic, and good ones are hard to find. Can't get my hands on a board with B3G-S, nor (for some unknown reasons) Mitsumi miniature mechanical. Somewhere I had a TaiHao aruz, but I've lost it while cleaning my room, fortunatelly I have the keycaps, it was partially disassembled. Don't mention Blue ovals. Now the point: Are B3G-S as rare as Blue Alps, and how rare are Blue Ovals, compared to them? I know I've asked it quite a few times before, but for some reason, I keep forgeting it.

[Mattr567]

Thought I would post this in the Deskthority Alps Appreciation thread as well:

So guys, I need your help. I am thinking of selling my Packard Bell T9102 for a new Model F77. I am leaning toward the F77 since I have always wanted a Model F, and in that layout in Industrial Gray with my special typesetting keycaps it would make an absolutely amazing board. Plus I still have my SKCM Amber board so I'm not completely rid of glorious first gen clicky Alps. Plus boards like my SKCM Cream AEKII.

I have already discussed this with E3E, but I thought I would seek your advice as well. Anyone interested in the Packard Bell can PM me. E3E and I came up with a price of $350 since it's NOS, ANSI, SKCM Blue, not yellowed in the slightest (including indicator label and that isn't reversible), no shine on the Alps Electric doubleshot caps, built very well with a metal backplate, and has a perfect coiled cable. Pretty much everything you could ask for!

Your guy's opinion??? The last round of the new Model F's ends on the 31st

[//gainsborough]

wait...really? I thought final round wasn't until like may or something.

edit: I'm actually almost positive that ellipse is still in first round orders. I guess you'd have to ask him though to confirm it. I was planning on getting an F77 as well, but I was waiting for final round (when I hopefully have more money)

[Mattr567]

wait...really? I thought final round wasn't until like may or something.

edit: I'm actually almost positive that ellipse is still in first round orders. I guess you'd have to ask him though to confirm it. I was planning on getting an F77 as well, but I was waiting for final round (when I hopefully have more money)

Hmm, not sure if it's the last round but it says to get your orders in by 3/31/17. I would check with him.

[//gainsborough]

Hmm, not sure if it's the last round but it says to get your orders in by 3/31/17. I would check with him.

Aye. I sent him a message after I posted here. I'll update when I hear back from him!

Also, GLWS on the Packard bell. I almost wish I didn't get this acer and instead waited for your immaculate blue alps one! I think $350 is pretty reasonable given it's condition - I'm sure it's close to what that monterey one went for that was posted in the marketplace not too long ago.

update: the 3/31 deadline is only for round 1 - we will be able to order a keyboard after 3/31 later this year!

[Mattr567]

Hmm, not sure if it's the last round but it says to get your orders in by 3/31/17. I would check with him.

Aye. I sent him a message after I posted here. I'll update when I hear back from him!

Also, GLWS on the Packard bell. I almost wish I didn't get this acer and instead waited for your immaculate blue alps one! I think $350 is pretty reasonable given it's condition - I'm sure it's close to what that monterey one went for that was posted in the marketplace not too long ago.

update: the 3/31 deadline is only for round 1 - we will be able to order a keyboard after 3/31 later this year!

That's great to hear!!!

I sold it btw.

[//gainsborough]

Noice!

[fruitalgorithm]

Are there any updates with regards to PBT keycaps from Matias? It's been over 2 years since they were hinted at.

I don't really get what's so complicated to make them. Can't you use the same molds as for ABS?

[Chyros]

Are there any updates with regards to PBT keycaps from Matias? It's been over 2 years since they were hinted at.

I don't really get what's so complicated to make them. Can't you use the same molds as for ABS?

Not if you want lettering on them, presumably.

[fruitalgorithm]

You can dye sub or laser the letters onto PBT. You only need insets for double shots.

The Lightcycle GB has been extended. There will be Alps sets https://thevankeyboards.com/products/li ... keycap-set

[Chyros]

You can dye sub or laser the letters onto PBT. You only need insets for double shots.

The Lightcycle GB has been extended. There will be Alps sets https://thevankeyboards.com/products/li ... keycap-set

Surely people wouldn't make a fuss if they would be content with LASERED PBT :p .

Also, I'm not sure, but I was always under the impression that the dyesubbing happened during casting rather than afterwards.

[Menuhin]

Thanks for your oppinions, guys!
How do undamped cream alps compare to Blue alps?

They are different switches. Damped cream is tactile, and blue is clicky.
Undamped cream? You just need to swap the slider with regular ones. By the way, some people say putting damped slider in blue alps switch makes nicer click.

Undampened cream and dampened cream are COMPLETELY different. Undamp cream is a first gen tactile switch, with a weighting between orange and brown, and nice snappy tactility. Dampened cream is a 2nd gen switch, which is a mushfest and has tactility like riding down a country road.

I would say undampened creams are technically speaking from the 2nd generation.

By the frequencies of existence, I speculate that the progression of Alps SKCL/SKCM switches could be like this:
1. The very beginning, transiting from the tall SKCC switch design, still at a phase of exploration (SKCL pines):
- SKCL switches - Ambers, Striped Ambers, SKCL browns
2. First stable generations (SKCL & SKCM pines):
- SKCM Browns as their tactile, SKCL greens as linear, SKCM blues as clicky.
3. Second generations (SKCL & SKCM pines):
- Oranges (from browns), creams (from browns), whites (from blues), SKCL greens continued up to this point.
4. Third generations with shortened switch plates (SKCM pines):
- Salmons (from oranges), blacks (from creams), yellows (from greens), dampened creams (from creams or oranges), whites were still there.
5. Fourth generations with shortened switch plates (SKCM bamboos - without 'slits' on the top switch housing):
- These blacks and whites and dampened whites are all bamboo shxt... binding / catching pretty often, worse than the scratchy batch of Cherries.
6. SKBL/SKBM Alps. A point of no return for Alps switches.

[arkanoid]

Thanks for your oppinions, guys!
How do undamped cream alps compare to Blue alps?

They are different switches. Damped cream is tactile, and blue is clicky.
Undamped cream? You just need to swap the slider with regular ones. By the way, some people say putting damped slider in blue alps switch makes nicer click.

Undampened cream and dampened cream are COMPLETELY different. Undamp cream is a first gen tactile switch, with a weighting between orange and brown, and nice snappy tactility. Dampened cream is a 2nd gen switch, which is a mushfest and has tactility like riding down a country road.

I didn't know cream is also called as undampened cream. Why don't we just call cream as cream? Dampened cream is the dampened version of the cream. So undampened cream should be something derived from the dampened cream. That's what I thought.
Anyway..., I recently got these.

Spoiler:

nos.jpg (54.67 KiB) Viewed 5960 times

NOS!!

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Anyway..., I recently got these.

Spoiler:

nos.jpg

NOS!!

#deletemydeskthorityaccount XD

[Chyros]

I would say undampened creams are technically speaking from the 2nd generation.

By the frequencies of existence, I speculate that the progression of original Alps switches could be like this:
1. The very beginning, still at a phase of exploration (pines):
- Ambers and Striped Ambers.
2. First generations (pines):
- Browns as their tactile, greens as linear, blues as clicky.
3. Second generations (pines):
- Oranges (from browns), creams (from browns), whites (from blues), greens continued up to this point.
4. Third generations with shortened switch plates (pines):
- Salmons (from oranges), blacks (from creams), yellows (from greens), dampened creams (from creams or oranges), whites were still there.
5. Fourth generations with shortened switch plates (bamboos - without 'slits' on the top switch housing):
- These blacks and whites and dampened whites are all bamboo shxt... binding / catching pretty often, worse than the scratchy batch of Cherries.

Since when are ambers and striped ambers older than greens and blues? :p

[Menuhin]

I would say undampened creams are technically speaking from the 2nd generation.

By the frequencies of existence, I speculate that the progression of original Alps switches could be like this:
1. The very beginning, still at a phase of exploration (pines):
- Ambers and Striped Ambers.
2. First generations (pines):
- Browns as their tactile, greens as linear, blues as clicky.
3. Second generations (pines):
- Oranges (from browns), creams (from browns), whites (from blues), greens continued up to this point.
4. Third generations with shortened switch plates (pines):
- Salmons (from oranges), blacks (from creams), yellows (from greens), dampened creams (from creams or oranges), whites were still there.
5. Fourth generations with shortened switch plates (bamboos - without 'slits' on the top switch housing):
- These blacks and whites and dampened whites are all bamboo shxt... binding / catching pretty often, worse than the scratchy batch of Cherries.

Since when are ambers and striped ambers older than greens and blues? :p

Okay, the switch historians / investigators educate me please then.
My speculation is relatively rough, compared to the long time Alps enthusiasts. I just want to fill in the missing pieces (plus amendments) onto this chart composed by Mousefan at the bottom of this link:
http://mousefan.telcontar.net/alpsk.htm

p.s. When were those Tandem keyboards made?
p.p.s. Ah...! I forgot the most obvious details: SKCC and SKCL, so xtra retarded only focusing on what I am looking at.

[mike52787]

I was always under the inpression that

1st gen: Tall switchplates, Pine tops, lube

2nd gen: Short switchplate, pine top, no lube

3rd gen: short switchplate, bamboo top, no lube

[Menuhin]

Judging from the chart of Mousefan and the co-existence of Striped-Ambers and Browns (SKCL) on Tandem boards, I guess Striped-Ambers and Ambers could have been just a few prototype boards, preceding SKCL browns at around 1987.

[Chyros]

Judging from the chart of Mousefan and the co-existence of Striped-Ambers and Browns (SKCL) on Tandem boards, I guess Striped-Ambers and Ambers could have been just a few prototype boards, preceding SKCL browns at around 1987.

Green, brown and blue all precede that by several years.

Mousefan made a rough timeline. It's not gospel (I have a few boards myself that lie outside it) but it's a good indication.

http://mousefan.telcontar.net/alpsk.htm

That green, brown and blue are the oldest linear, tactile and clicky switches in the series is pretty generally agreed on, though. Gold Star's timeline is somewhat separate, but certainly not older than Japan's AFAIK.

[mike52787]

As you all know, Black switchplates are the earliest kind, and denote the earliest of the SKCM/L switches. So, SKCM creams and browns have been known to come with them, and SKCL green and cream do too. These are definitely the earliest SKCL/M switches. Also, early SKCM creams have been known to come with symmetrical tops and older style tactile leaves, which proves that SKCM cream and SKCM brown coexisted at the same time.

[Mattr567]

I always thought Striped Amber was just a one off switch produced specially for Tandem, kinda like SKCM Amber and Apple. It has a unique weight so I wouldn't call it a prototype for other switches.

[Mattr567]

As you all know, Black switchplates are the earliest kind, and denote the earliest of the SKCM/L switches. So, SKCM creams and browns have been known to come with them, and SKCL green and cream do too. These are definitely the earliest SKCL/M switches. Also, early SKCM creams have been known to come with symmetrical tops and older style tactile leaves, which proves that SKCM cream and SKCM brown coexisted at the same time.

SKCM Creams can come with black switchplates? Didn't know that.

From what I understand SKCM Brown, Blue and Green are the earliest switches of the 3 types with SKCL Cream also existing as a heavy version for spacebars and a couple full boards.

The blurriness comes with the rest of the progression of tactile switches. We know SKCM Brown < Orange < Salmon < Black but not sure where Cream fits in. Might be before or after SKCM Orange. It is a first gen switch. Dampened switches are on another timeline.

We know SKCL Green < Yellow also, but Striped Amber has to be newer than Green since it doesn't come with black switchplates and was introduced later. Might be a one off like I said and SKCL Brown is unique to Gold Star, it didn't replace anything. SKCL Amber is the equivalent of SKCL Cream to Green or SKCL Grey to Yellow.

[Tuntematon]

Cream is a contemporary of Blue, so we can lump it in with the original group. Wiki has a photo of some official documentation:



But it looks like they may have just overlapped near the end of Blue production, so that doesn't really clear things up.

Those Canon typewriter Creams must make them at least as old as Orange, no? I dunno, I'm finding I'm not all that concerned about smoothing out the remaining details of the Alps timeline. I'm pretty happy with what we know

[Menuhin]

The RGB color theme was beautiful:
- Brown (Reddish brown) as tactile
- Green as linear
- Blue as clicky

They could have modified the color into different shapes to represent different versions and weight, like how Zealios is doing to their purple MX switches. But then Gold Star joint the party and messed up this color theme.

Then SKCM creams, similar to blues, are clicky?