Round 5 and Round 6 kits for sale!

zslane · 29 Mar 2017, 01:42

Yeah, tell me about it. I learned a whole new kind of patience with this GB.

82d28a · 29 Mar 2017, 03:18

Has SP been paid and do we have a production date yet?

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gnmar2723 · 29 Mar 2017, 04:50

82d28a wrote: ↑Has SP been paid and do we have a production date yet?

I've also been kinda wondering this... I feel like we don't have a definitive answer from them yet.

n__dles · 29 Mar 2017, 17:30

I goofed and added a Phase2 cap to my order for R6 leftovers.

I've already paid. How can I trigger shipment on the keys in stock and forfeit the Phase2 cap?

7bit · 29 Mar 2017, 18:36

SHIPNOW

7bit · 29 Mar 2017, 18:45

The following ordrs still lack either the complete address or the name:
0453
0886
0906

zslane · 29 Mar 2017, 19:06

gnmar2723 wrote: ↑
82d28a wrote: ↑Has SP been paid and do we have a production date yet?
I've also been kinda wondering this... I feel like we don't have a definitive answer from them yet.

My guess is we're still waiting on SL89's invoice payment to reach SP.

n__dles · 29 Mar 2017, 19:22

7bit wrote: ↑SHIPNOW

maybe add that to the documentation

chuckdee · 29 Mar 2017, 20:39

zslane wrote: ↑
gnmar2723 wrote: ↑
82d28a wrote: ↑Has SP been paid and do we have a production date yet?
I've also been kinda wondering this... I feel like we don't have a definitive answer from them yet.
My guess is we're still waiting on SL89's invoice payment to reach SP.

I'd say your guess is right on the money from this post.

7bit wrote: ↑Rumros say that SL89 will pay within this week.

n__dles wrote: ↑
7bit wrote: ↑SHIPNOW

maybe add that to the documentation

You could have actually done that. But done.

zslane · 29 Mar 2017, 21:25

Yeah, and since "within this week" ended three days ago, I'm further guessing that those rumors were false (or at least overly optimistic).

7bit · 30 Mar 2017, 01:53

It is worse, but I really hope it is only a technical reason that SL89 did not yet pay.

The money is on its way ...

The money is on its way ...

@mashby: If you read this, we can do without those $3700 but it will be nice if you pay your invoice from September 2016 right now, pleeeese!

zslane · 30 Mar 2017, 02:18

I think we need to consider the possibility that the money from previous collectors is a lost cause. You might want to start collecting new funds to cover those not being paid by SL89 or mashby, otherwise phase 2 may never get paid in full.

gnarlsagan · 30 Mar 2017, 03:11

7bit wrote: ↑It is worse, but I really hope it is only a technical reason that SL89 did not yet pay.

@mashby: If you read this, we can do without those $3700 but it will be nice if you pay your invoice from September 2016 right now, pleeeese!

How much more do we still need? Wondering if i need to dust off the pitchfork.

82d28a · 30 Mar 2017, 03:23

So to be clear what has been paid to SP and what is owed? If the previous collectors stole the money what is our recourse?

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zslane · 30 Mar 2017, 03:39

82d28a wrote: ↑So to be clear what has been paid to SP and what is owed? If the previous collectors stole the money what is our recourse?

I wouldn't say they stole the money. However, their inability to fulfill their obligations as collectors, for whatever reason, means we can't really count on them to help get phase 2 into production. Maybe it can help refund all those Round 7 payments at some point in the future, but for now I think any funds krutmob is collecting should probably go towards covering the money that isn't forthcoming from SL89 and mashby. Let 7bit go hunting that money down separately while we keep the phase 2 funding train moving forward.

82d28a · 30 Mar 2017, 05:28

zslane wrote:
82d28a wrote: ↑So to be clear what has been paid to SP and what is owed? If the previous collectors stole the money what is our recourse?
I wouldn't say they stole the money. However, their inability to fulfill their obligations as collectors, for whatever reason, means we can't really count on them to help get phase 2 into production. Maybe it can help refund all those Round 7 payments at some point in the future, but for now I think any funds krutmob is collecting should probably go towards covering the money that isn't forthcoming from SL89 and mashby. Let 7bit go hunting that money down separately while we keep the phase 2 funding train moving forward.

So again how much has been paid to SP and what is portion that is tied up/lost/stolen or what not?

krutmob · 30 Mar 2017, 07:00

zslane wrote: ↑ . . . but for now I think any funds krutmob is collecting should probably go towards covering the money that isn't forthcoming from SL89 and mashby.

This is the plan.

82d28a wrote: ↑So to be clear what has been paid to SP and what is owed? If the previous collectors stole the money what is our recourse?

Can't speak to recourse but I believe SP only needs another $2500 to get going. I am currently waiting on an invoice from Melissa. I will pay it as soon as I receive it.

krutmob · 31 Mar 2017, 18:52

Update to the above post:

I spoke with Mashby on the phone today regarding his unpaid invoice. He had a series of small business ownership issues and it sounds like he tabled the group buy stuff in lieu of his livelihood--which is understandable, honestly.

Mashby assures me he will conduct an accounting this weekend to trace payments, and CC the results to 7bit and me. Mashby stated he has the invoice from SP and plans to pay it after he does a reconciliation of funds.

Also, for those not aware, 7bit is out of town until April 10. The bot is taking over and ordering still works the same way.

zslane · 31 Mar 2017, 19:05

krutmob wrote: ↑ I spoke with Mashby on the phone today regarding his unpaid invoice. He had a series of small business ownership issues and it sounds like he tabled the group buy stuff in lieu of his livelihood--which is understandable, honestly.

Well, not when thousands of dollars of other people's money is involved. Hobby or not, there's a fiduciary responsibility to others that can't simply be "tabled" just because real life becomes difficult. I realize that we have no choice but to be understanding (he's got the money, after all), but let's not pretend that it is acceptable. I sympathize with Mashby, I do, but this sort of thing should never be tolerated.

I'm glad we're able to move forward, but I really hope 7bit re-evaluates the way he runs his group buys in the future, because relying on foreign proxies to collect funds is a financial disaster waiting to happen, as we are all witness to.

krutmob · 31 Mar 2017, 19:20

Not that I disagree, just trying to avoid pitchforks.

The good news is that it sounds like this will be resolved within the week.

zslane · 31 Mar 2017, 19:32

Yeah, I don't mean to make it look like I want to start handing out pitchforks, cuz I don't. It's just that this situation has had me simmering with rage for over four months now, and it is difficult to just sit back and let this latest development go by without (appropriately stern) comment.

chuckdee · 31 Mar 2017, 19:34

zslane wrote: ↑
krutmob wrote: ↑ I spoke with Mashby on the phone today regarding his unpaid invoice. He had a series of small business ownership issues and it sounds like he tabled the group buy stuff in lieu of his livelihood--which is understandable, honestly.
Well, not when thousands of dollars of other people's money is involved. Hobby or not, there's a fiduciary responsibility to others that can't simply be "tabled" just because real life becomes difficult. I realize that we have no choice but to be understanding (he's got the money, after all), but let's not pretend that it is acceptable. I sympathize with Mashby, I do, but this sort of thing should never be tolerated.

I'm glad we're able to move forward, but I really hope 7bit re-evaluates the way he runs his group buys in the future, because relying on foreign proxies to collect funds is a financial disaster waiting to happen, as we are all witness to.

If you're not getting paid for your services, and you need stuff for your life, things become a bit more muddled IMO. He gave a timeline, which as long as he communicates and sticks to it, is the best that could be hoped for, I think.

zslane · 31 Mar 2017, 19:39

chuckdee wrote: ↑ If you're not getting paid for your services, and you need stuff for your life, things become a bit more muddled IMO.

I respectfully disagree. Volunteers who handle other people's money still have a fiduciary responsibility to those whose money they are handling. It is a trust issue, not a compensation issue.

chuckdee · 31 Mar 2017, 19:40

So if your house was on the line because you lost your contract unexpectedly, you'd prioritize a group buy that you're not getting paid for over finding a new contract? (And that's just an example, as we don't know what happened with him)

And to be sure, you have a responsibility with the money, but not the scheduling of such. As long as you handle it, the timing sometimes takes a back seat, though I think the communication could have been better.

vinnycordeiro · 31 Mar 2017, 19:45

chuckdee wrote: ↑So if your house was on the line because you lost your contract unexpectedly, you'd prioritize a group buy that you're not getting paid for over finding a new contract? (And that's just an example, as we don't know what happened with him)

As hypothetical this situation may be, he could at least give a warning, saying "due to circumstances out of my control, I'll have to step back for a time" or something like that. As zslane said, it is all a trust issue, and saying the truth, even not giving details, helps building trust. The silence just make us wonder what happened, usually with disastrous consequences.

EDIT: typos.

chuckdee · 31 Mar 2017, 19:47

vinnycordeiro wrote: ↑
chuckdee wrote: ↑So if your house was on the line because you lost your contract unexpectedly, you'd prioritize a group buy that you're not getting paid for over finding a new contract? (And that's just an example, as we don't know what happened with him)
As hypothetical this situation may be, he could at least gave a warning, saying "due to circumstances out of my control, I'll have to step back for a time" or something like that. As zslane, it is all a trust issue, and saying the truth, even not giving details, helps building trust. The silence just make us wonder what happened, usually with disastrous consequences.

I totally agree that communication was off on this, and am not disputing that point.

zslane · 31 Mar 2017, 20:00

A transfer of the monies to another volunteer who is not under such extreme stress would be the wisest move for all involved. 7bit could have lined up another volunteer and arranged for the transfer, an operation that would ultimately have consumed all of five minutes of the original collector's valuable time. But, of course, even that requires that the original collector not completely disappear. Bear in mind that I'm not speaking specifically about Mashby. He has not been the only bottleneck, merely the latest.

chuckdee · 31 Mar 2017, 20:11

He said he had to trace all of the monies and such. That takes more than 5 minutes. But I'm just leaving this as a difference of opinion.

krutmob · 31 Mar 2017, 20:17

In this instance, the collector believed he was waiting on a directive from 7bit before he was supposed to pay the invoice. Apparently he didn't hear from him, then had a bunch of business priorities. Not saying he made all the right choices, but Mashby sounds like a reasonable guy.

IMO all this (not just mashby) is a symptom of a bigger issue--the ordering and payment system. It's clear I think to all of us at this point that this shit has to get streamlined. I would love to see a keyclack-style site.

zslane · 31 Mar 2017, 20:35

krutmob wrote: ↑In this instance, the collector believed he was waiting on a directive from 7bit before he was supposed to pay the invoice. Apparently he didn't hear from him, then had a bunch of business priorities. Not saying he made all the right choices, but Mashby sounds like a reasonable guy.

I agree. Mashby always struck me as a stand-up guy. If what you say is true, then this is simply an aggravating case of excruciatingly poor timing. Nevertheless, like everyone else I'm just sick and tired of all the delays, and knowing that there is a reasonable explanation for (some of) them does little to make them less rage-inducing.

IMO all this (not just mashby) is a symptom of a bigger issue--the ordering and payment system. It's clear I think to all of us at this point that this shit has to get streamlined. I would love to see a keyclack-style site.

Again, I agree 100%. However, I doubt that this (or any) set of disastrous events will motivate 7bit to change how he conducts his group buys in the future. Caveat emptor!