Ergo springs: Heavy or light?

[indrora]

Title says it all: I'm waging the fight against RSI and my foray into the game (Ergodox, Gateron Blues) has done a huge amount for me. Working with normal keyboards now feels strange and confining (even uncomfortable at times).

I'm going to be making another. The question is: What switches should I put on it? I'm tempted to try putting the 35g springs on my blues, but which direction is best? Zealios are derived from the Ergo Clear recipe, but what's the science on how good/bad it is?

Let's get some Keyboard Science?

[hook]

IMHO, based on my own experience with RSI – and this will probably be an unpopular opinion – the biggest improvement is to simply learn to properly touch-type, so you minimize the movement of the joints that you stress. Even better if you get an ergonomic layout.

For me, what got rid of RSI was when I started using Neo2 (and Dvorak before that for a short while) as my primary layout, while still using the same keyboard of my ThinkPad laptop. Not having the legends on the keyboard also forced me to learn to touch-type (KTouch on Linux is a *great* tool, BTW) and therefore reduce the finger travel and wrist movement.

I’ve already had the pleasure to try out the Kinesis Advantage for a week (both as Neo2 and QWERTZ), which is the inspiration for ErgoDox. I would say that doing the above pays double for a split ergonomic keyboard. To be brutally honest, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use anything but an ergonomic layout on an ergonomic split.

[czarek]

I think everyone is different but it's not true that the lighter the better. Tactility also plays a huge role. For me the most ergonomic switches are standard MX Browns with faint (but enough not to bottom out) tactility and 45g actuation. MX Blues have slightly sharper tactility which is more fun, but I wouldn't say it's any more ergonomic. With linear switches it's a bit more tricky, I think in this regard Cherries are missing a bit. I think MX Red is a tad too light and MX Black is a tad too heavy, so I'm using 65G springs with linear Cherry switches which are just a bit heavier than standard Reds and that's just about perfect for me.

Also you might be surprised but I regard Buckling Springs as pretty ergonomic. They are very well balanced switch in regards of force and tactility. You need to maintain different typing style than with Cherries or Topres.

And the Topres. I really think they're the least ergonomic switch. Their tactility is very strong, but spread out over whole travel distance, kind of forcing you to go through whole 3mm travel every time you press a key, ending up at the very bottom. It's satisfying, I agree, but I wouldn't call it ergonomic by no means. The only Topre I can really use (because don't get me wrong, I love Topre sound and feel), is variable force with weaker fingers being a bit less tactile and lighter. Shockingly those are the keys I don't bottom out, while I pretty much always bottom out the center 45g keys (and love the sound and feel of it).
Not a problem though. When using all 45g, or 55g Topre the only figers that hurt me (after some time of course) are my rign and index fingers, which never happens with variable force.

[indrora]

IMHO, based on my own experience with RSI – and this will probably be an unpopular opinion – the biggest improvement is to simply learn to properly touch-type, so you minimize the movement of the joints that you stress. Even better if you get an ergonomic layout.

I'm a fairly competent touch-typist on a row-staggered layout. That has never been the sticking point for me. Getting to speed on the Ergodox was mostly learning the things that were faster; After growing up not typing but playing FPSs, I've had to break my habit of keeping my left hand on WASD (ASD+shift,space) and right hand on NKO; On a fullsize 104key, this leaves my wrists neutral but my arms at a 45deg angle, and on smaller boards this puts my keyboard much closer and at nearly 60deg from perpendicular.

For reference, my shoulders are 52-54cm apart (guessing at roughly the socket). I have huge shoulders, and buy US 2-3XL jackets so that I can move my arms around. Without carrying something akin to a Cadet, I physically don't have the space to keep my shoulders neutral.

For me, what got rid of RSI was when I started using Neo2 (and Dvorak before that for a short while) as my primary layout, while still using the same keyboard of my ThinkPad laptop. Not having the legends on the keyboard also forced me to learn to touch-type (KTouch on Linux is a *great* tool, BTW) and therefore reduce the finger travel and wrist movement.

I need to be functional on a standard QWERTY board, without having to keep a second set of mental mappings in my head. I also don't do German/French/etc without something like compose keys.

I’ve already had the pleasure to try out the Kinesis Advantage for a week (both as Neo2 and QWERTZ), which is the inspiration for ErgoDox. I would say that doing the above pays double for a split ergonomic keyboard. To be brutally honest, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would use anything but an ergonomic layout on an ergonomic split.

For me, the movement to an Ergodox was to reduce wrist movement. My usual layout ( http://configure.ergodox-ez.com/keyboar ... ts/qjnpyj/ ) has me moving as little as possible to do my standard actions (python software and English language writing). I've considered Dvorak, but a lack of having it at school has left me not as able to continue.

I think everyone is different but it's not true that the lighter the better. Tactility also plays a huge role. For me the most ergonomic switches are standard MX Browns with faint (but enough not to bottom out) tactility and 45g actuation. MX Blues have slightly sharper tactility which is more fun, but I wouldn't say it's any more ergonomic. With linear switches it's a bit more tricky, I think in this regard Cherries are missing a bit. I think MX Red is a tad too light and MX Black is a tad too heavy, so I'm using 65G springs with linear Cherry switches which are just a bit heavier than standard Reds and that's just about perfect for me.

What I'm getting from this is "Experiment until you find something that is comfortable". Sounds like I'm picking up a Zealio tester to sate my curiosity

Also you might be surprised but I regard Buckling Springs as pretty ergonomic. They are very well balanced switch in regards of force and tactility. You need to maintain different typing style than with Cherries or Topres.

And the Topres. I really think they're the least ergonomic switch. Their tactility is very strong, but spread out over whole travel distance, kind of forcing you to go through whole 3mm travel every time you press a key, ending up at the very bottom. It's satisfying, I agree, but I wouldn't call it ergonomic by no means. The only Topre I can really use (because don't get me wrong, I love Topre sound and feel), is variable force with weaker fingers being a bit less tactile and lighter. Shockingly those are the keys I don't bottom out, while I pretty much always bottom out the center 45g keys (and love the sound and feel of it).
Not a problem though. When using all 45g, or 55g Topre the only figers that hurt me (after some time of course) are my rign and index fingers, which never happens with variable force.

I haven't heard anything good about RubbreyDomeys I mean Topres. Once upon a time, I lusted over a HHKB, but then fate (or fortune) kept me from getting one. Sounds like I've saved my wrists on that one.

[hook]

Seems like you have the layout sorted out then