Alps Appreciation

[XMIT]

Very nice PerniciousPony! Thanks for sharing! I need to check out that Mech27 kit.

[waldorf120]

Built an Alps numpad this weekend from an old Genovation pad. Fully programmable and I intend to install LEDs and get them to work at some point!



Imgur Build Log

[hook]

Two months ago, the company I now work for was cool enough to let me buy a Matias Mini Quiet Pro as my work keyboard.

And I have to say, I love it! I’m so happy to have taken the leap of faith and got this dampened Alps board as my first mechanical keyboard, instead of getting a Cherry MX, which I tried before. I agree with pretty much everything that the Deskthority Wiki says about this board

The biggest issue I have with it probably is that the Menu key is missing, so in Linux I bound the right Meta/Win key to act as it instead:

Code: Select all

xmodmap -e keycode 134 = Menu

[seebart]

Finally got a M0115 in good condition, the M0115 is not very common in the EU. The orange Alps in this one are in good shape but I'll PTFE them soon, the case and spacebar need bleaching that's about it. Brilliant keyboard with awesome keycaps and nice tactile orange Alps SKCM in a stylish solid case featuring the best ISO layout ever. Truly a classic.

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IMGP6505.JPG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 5967 times

[alh84001]

Nice! I'm glad you finally got it. ISO-DE layout with a regular Enter? I didn't now that was a thing.

[seebart]

Nice! I'm glad you finally got it. ISO-DE layout with a regular Enter? I didn't now that was a thing.

Thanks, I owned one before but that is in poor shape, this one is in much better condition it's always a gamble with these old SKCM boards. This is the best ISO layout solution IMO, the horizontal ANSI like enter is so much more practical and better looking.

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[Wingklip]

Anyone know why the alps slider is designed like that and not say a cylinder? What happens if the cross section area is larger/smaller?

I would assume a small contacting area would produce less friction but idk, there must be some reason as to why they ended up being rectangles with 4 rounded protrusions (lucky apple didn't patent this)

[Chyros]

Anyone know why the alps slider is designed like that and not say a cylinder? What happens if the cross section area is larger/smaller?

I would assume a small contacting area would produce less friction but idk, there must be some reason as to why they ended up being rectangles with 4 rounded protrusions (lucky apple didn't patent this)

It's got contact points on four sides; a rectangle made sense I guess.

[Wingklip]

Anyone know why the alps slider is designed like that and not say a cylinder? What happens if the cross section area is larger/smaller?

I would assume a small contacting area would produce less friction but idk, there must be some reason as to why they ended up being rectangles with 4 rounded protrusions (lucky apple didn't patent this)

It's got contact points on four sides; a rectangle made sense I guess.

What happens if it were circular or square?

[orihalcon]

Finally got a M0115 in good condition, the M0115 is not very common in the EU. The orange Alps in this one are in good shape but I'll PTFE them soon, the case and spacebar need bleaching that's about it. Brilliant keyboard with awesome keycaps and nice tactile orange Alps SKCM in a stylish solid case featuring the best ISO layout ever. Truly a classic.

IMGP6504.JPG

IMGP6505.JPG

Yeah, I also didn't know about the ANSI version in other languages. I dig the symbols instead of the words return/shift, etc. I finally tracked a French/Canadian one down and that had the ANSI enter, but that was the only one I knew of that had it.

[Chyros]

Anyone know why the alps slider is designed like that and not say a cylinder? What happens if the cross section area is larger/smaller?

I would assume a small contacting area would produce less friction but idk, there must be some reason as to why they ended up being rectangles with 4 rounded protrusions (lucky apple didn't patent this)

It's got contact points on four sides; a rectangle made sense I guess.

What happens if it were circular or square?

On two of the sides, the contact prongs are dual, so a round shape would've given unreliable contacting surfaces. With a square there wouldn't've been enough space to fit in the switchplate and clicker.

[kekstee]

Nice one. Even a bit better in condition than the one I managed to find.
I've considered putting it back together after desoldering the orange Alps for a 60, but I lack the switches. I've got maybe 50 decent condition Salmons left, so I could get a working AEK if I found some more that aren't oxidized to hell.

[hypkx]

Do white tactile alps switches exist? I got today (pictures thread will follow, like always) a Alps bigfoot with Toshiba branding and it has alps branded switches, they are white (not cream) and tactile.

[Chyros]

Do white tactile alps switches exist? I got today (pictures thread will follow, like always) a Alps bigfoot with Toshiba branding and it has alps branded switches, they are white (not cream) and tactile.

White dampened ones exist, yes.

[hypkx]

undampened

[hypkx]

I will disassemble one of the switches tomorrow, but they seem to be undampened. Btw another nice thing that the keyboard differs from the one in the wiki entry, because it has winkeys.

[hypkx]

Ok, they are just dampened white alps.

[Wingklip]

White alps are quite stiff and binding in what I've tried before.

[seebart]

Do white tactile alps switches exist? I got today (pictures thread will follow, like always) a Alps bigfoot with Toshiba branding and it has alps branded switches, they are white (not cream) and tactile.

Not that I know of, clicky and dampened white ones AFAIK.

White alps are quite stiff and binding in what I've tried before.

I'm sure you realise those you tried may just have been worn and filthy. I own "new" dead stock unused ones in a Focus FK-2001 that are silky smooth almost as smooth as blue Alps. It's the same old story with all Alps SKCM, they are dirt prone and when worn down can feel pretty horrible.

wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series

[//gainsborough]

I bought an Omnikey/PLUS recently and have been using it since it arrived, but I just now noticed that the keycaps are different than normal tai hao.

Take a look:



On the left are normal tai hao that comes on most omnikey & focus boards. On the right are a couple caps from the PLUS. The legends are bolder and the molding is slightly different. So then I got out some modern-day dai hao caps to compare it with.



The middle two caps are from a tai hao olivetti set. But still the PLUS' caps seem to have bolder legends. The injection is different as well, being almost completely solid without any kind of pattern.



What do you guys make of these caps?

[Chyros]

I have many keycap sets of the +-shaped type that you show there. I assumed they were Tai-Hao caps as well.

[seebart]

I have many keycap sets of the +-shaped type that you show there. I assumed they were Tai-Hao caps as well.

Yes I assumed the same although I don't actually know if all those are indeed from Tai-Hao. The keycaps on my Focus FK-2002 are the nicer ones though, exactly like yours on the left gainsborough. If you ask me the two types in middle are more common than this:

Focus_FK-2002_doubleshots.jpg (867.22 KiB) Viewed 5587 times

Congrats on that nice Omnikey!

[2ter]

Do white tactile alps switches exist? I got today (pictures thread will follow, like always) a Alps bigfoot with Toshiba branding and it has alps branded switches, they are white (not cream) and tactile.

Not that I know of, clicky and dampened white ones AFAIK.

White alps are quite stiff and binding in what I've tried before.

I'm sure you realise those you tried may just have been worn and filthy. I own "new" dead stock unused ones in a Focus FK-2001 that are silky smooth almost as smooth as blue Alps. It's the same old story with all Alps SKCM, they are dirt prone and when worn down can feel pretty horrible.

wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series

The dampened white Alps are tactile not clicky.
I have an AEK II with damped white Alps with slits and tall contact plates.
Do the ones in the Toshiba Bigfoot have slits?

[seebart]

The dampened white Alps are tactile not clicky. I have an AEK II with damped white Alps with slits and tall contact plates. Do the ones in the Toshiba Bigfoot have slits?

That is correct. The "normal" much more common Alps SKCM White is clicky, I don't think Apple ever used that switch for any of their keyboards. There are only two Alps SKCM with white sliders. Good thing we have our list:

wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series

Dampened Alps SKCM are never clicky. That would defeat the whole concept.

[directheatedtriode]

This is my experience so far with SKCM blue- the switches feel very smooth, very slightly smoother than SKCM orange though I think I would need to do a back and forth comparison between the two to notice that difference. Also on my M0116 they are not as forgiving to off center keypresses and require a bit more effort, with this blue board I can make off center key presses and it still feels fine and not much effort is needed to press the keycap.

The switches do feel a bit "sticky". Hard to describe but it feels like there is a molasses sort of feeling when typing on it and I can only feel it when typing rapidly. It feels completely normal when just pressing single keys. And this is extremely minor. I am not sure if this is just due to the heavier weighting comparing to the SKCM orange or the switches need a good cleaning.

This a custom build with someone transplanting SKCM blue into an OEM board using knock off Alps switches. Something else that leads me to think that I need to clean it is the right shift doesn't always register depending on where it is clicked, and sometimes need a decent amount of force before it registers. This leads me to believe I should open them up and give them a good cleaning.

Is ultrasonic still the best method to clean them out?

I think I'll be able to make a more fair evaluation once they're cleaned and I've been able to have some more time with it.

[//gainsborough]

I have many keycap sets of the +-shaped type that you show there. I assumed they were Tai-Hao caps as well.

Yes I assumed the same although I don't actually know if all those are indeed from Tai-Hao. The keycaps on my Focus FK-2002 are the nicer ones though, exactly like yours on the left gainsborough.

I think the start pattern molding caps are definitely a little bit more well built, but the legends on the omnikey keycaps are very nice! Much darker and more pronounced than the star pattern molding caps or even the more modern tai hao caps. I think they are all tai hao, though - they must have gone away from the star pattern molding at somepoint in time.

Congrats on that nice Omnikey!

Thanks! I'm very happy with it!

[seebart]

I think the start pattern molding caps are definitely a little bit more well built, but the legends on the omnikey keycaps are very nice! Much darker and more pronounced than the star pattern molding caps or even the more modern tai hao caps. I think they are all tai hao, though - they must have gone away from the star pattern molding at somepoint in time.

Possibly cost cutting, we might never find out.

[mike52787]

<3 <3 <3

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What do you guys make of these caps?

As it happens I gave Felly at Tai-Hao a prod this morning to see if he could get a confirmation from their engineers about how exactly they know which are theirs and which are not. The type used on the Datadesk Switchboard with the diagonal struts is definitely not theirs (as I already noted in that topic at the time) and that alone may be sufficient to use as a recognition feature, so long as you are able to pull a keycap. I'm waiting for official confirmation before I formally document this.

I don't have the diagonal strut type to examine; I only have 90s and 2010s Tai-Hao TI series, which are identical to each other.

The amount and shape of patterning on the inside of the keycap varies even within the same switch series. Even series that seem to have a totally solid first shot can sometimes show gaps if the inner shot is thin enough; you can see that with the SMK keycap in the centre of the bottom row here:



Also note how the top-right keycap (Tai-Hao TI series) has very rounded corners, while the very similar keycap second left on the bottom row has square corners? That means it too is not Tai-Hao. Tai-Hao's new "cube type" TA series does have the square corners.

[//gainsborough]

Possibly cost cutting, we might never find out.

That was my guess too - I'm convinced all three caps in my photo are tai hao at this point.

<3 <3 <3

Very. Very. Nice. Wanna trade top cases? =P Congrats again, man!

The amount and shape of patterning on the inside of the keycap varies even within the same switch series. Even series that seem to have a totally solid first shot can sometimes show gaps if the inner shot is thin enough; you can see that with the SMK keycap in the centre of the bottom row here:



Also note how the top-right keycap (Tai-Hao TI series) has very rounded corners, while the very similar keycap second left on the bottom row has square corners? That means it too is not Tai-Hao. Tai-Hao's new "cube type" TA series does have the square corners.

I hadn't noticed the rounded corners, that definitely makes them easier to identify. The second from the left keycap I believe is a monterey keycap!