Alps Appreciation

[directheatedtriode]

This is my experience so far with SKCM blue- the switches feel very smooth, very slightly smoother than SKCM orange though I think I would need to do a back and forth comparison between the two to notice that difference. Also on my M0116 they are not as forgiving to off center keypresses and require a bit more effort, with this blue board I can make off center key presses and it still feels fine and not much effort is needed to press the keycap.

The switches do feel a bit "sticky". Hard to describe but it feels like there is a molasses sort of feeling when typing on it and I can only feel it when typing rapidly. It feels completely normal when just pressing single keys. And this is extremely minor. I am not sure if this is just due to the heavier weighting comparing to the SKCM orange or the switches need a good cleaning.

I'm just wondering if this is what people describe when they say that Alps blue switches are very smooth? Because there is a complete lack of any scratchiness at all; something I did notice on my modern MX Blue keyboard quite a bit.

Damn, that crisp tactile actuation point/sound and snap followed by the rapid bottom out and sound is just so satisfying It was nice to hear in videos, and I can't help running my fingers along ASDF (you know that tapping motion people do with their fingers going from pinky to index when they are impatient) when I'm not typing something.

Sorry to quote myself. The more I use these switches the more this "molasses" like feeling is starting to feel a bit more normal?

[Chyros]

My question is then; who makes all these other keycaps? There can't be THAT many companies that do it, right?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I hadn't noticed the rounded corners, that definitely makes them easier to identify. The second from the left keycap I believe is a monterey keycap!

I don't know who made it, but yes it is from a Monterey K102.

My question is then; who makes all these other keycaps? There can't be THAT many companies that do it, right?

Tai-Hao don't know who made those keycaps that look like theirs. There are a number of very distinct product ranges, as you can see from the photo — I listed some of the known brands under [wiki]Double-shot moulding[/wiki]. Topre is also listed there, but I doubt Topre make them, and I should probably remove them.

I see that Key Tronic isn't covered, but should they be? BTC used completely identical keycaps for a while, suggesting that Key Tronic sourced theirs from a third party and that BTC then used the same third party. However, BTC could have simply copied them just as how Tai-Hao made a faithful replica of old Cherry keycaps including the typeface.

There are various companies whose keycaps are fairly distinctive, but the OEM is not known. I got the feeling that GRI and MEI may have shared an OEM, but no, they're different:

GRI: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123564336 ... 377873472/
MEI: wiki/File:Acorn_Atom_--_keycaps_pulled.jpg

At some stage I should be getting a pile of old Clare/Pendar keycaps from NSI, which I can inspect, to see if those match anything.

The typical mix of in-house tooling vs outsourced supply is as complicated as it always is.

[seebart]

Sweet that Acer of yours mike52787!

Thanks for the Tai-Hao research Daniel, another small step in the endless Alps vortex / puzzle. Honestly it does not suprise me that there was at least one other manufacturer. I'll have to check if I have the diagonal strut type here.

[Menuhin]

Have been procrastinating on this challenging cleanup task for a few months...

[fohat]

Surprising how much variation there is in those blues ....

[mike52787]

Have been procrastinating on this challenging cleanup task for a few months...

So you want to attempt the impossible... :O are those taobao blue alps? THE WORST!

[Menuhin]

Yep, from a 'broken' IBM keyboard.
May need to get some help from ultrasonic cleansing.

[Wingklip]

Yep, from a 'broken' IBM keyboard.
May need to get some help from ultrasonic cleansing.

Where do these fake "IBM"'s come from?

[Menuhin]

Yep, from a 'broken' IBM keyboard.
May need to get some help from ultrasonic cleansing.

Where do these fake "IBM"'s come from?

These "fake" IBM keyboards were manufactured by IBM Japan, where they decided not to use the buckling spring key switch mechanisms.

[Wingklip]

What the hell, are they model m's? What model number?

[mike52787]

What the hell, are they model m's? What model number?

They have the same PN as the common pc compatible m101 with a metal badge, 1390131. however the cases do not fit a normal model M, and the plates do not fit in a normal model M case.

[directheatedtriode]

Have been procrastinating on this challenging cleanup task for a few months...

So you want to attempt the impossible... :O are those taobao blue alps? THE WORST!

What are TaoBao blue alps?

[mike52787]

Have been procrastinating on this challenging cleanup task for a few months...

So you want to attempt the impossible... :O are those taobao blue alps? THE WORST!

What are TaoBao blue alps?

Simple, blue alps that came from taobao, and had been lying in some chinese junkyard submerged in mud and dirt. some of the absolute worst switches I have ever had, both in feel and condition.

[Menuhin]

Spoiler:

So you want to attempt the impossible... :O are those taobao blue alps? THE WORST!

What are TaoBao blue alps?

Simple, blue alps that came from taobao, and had been lying in some chinese junkyard submerged in mud and dirt. some of the absolute worst switches I have ever had, both in feel and condition.

Not good even after ultrasonic cleaning?

I kind of agree that this seller probably stores these switches in conditions like those in the junkyard - exposure to humidity and large temperature change and dust and sunlight.

[mike52787]

Not good even after ultrasonic cleaning?

I kind of agree that this seller probably stores these switches in conditions like those in the junkyard - exposure to humidity and large temperature change and dust and sunlight.

I never attempted ultrasonicing mine, I simply threw away the top housings and sliders, they were beyond repair. I know other people who have ultrasoniced them, and they say that it does not completely remove the scratchiness or the bind.

[directheatedtriode]

Simple, blue alps that came from taobao, and had been lying in some chinese junkyard submerged in mud and dirt. some of the absolute worst switches I have ever had, both in feel and condition.

The shade of blue on them (almost a greyish on some of the switches) makes it look like they are real SKCM?

[mike52787]

Simple, blue alps that came from taobao, and had been lying in some chinese junkyard submerged in mud and dirt. some of the absolute worst switches I have ever had, both in feel and condition.

The shade of blue on them (almost a greyish on some of the switches) makes it look like they are real SKCM?

???

Where did I ever say they were not genuine SKCM Blue alps? I was simply saying where they came from and the fact that they were in utter shit condition.

[//gainsborough]

Surprising how much variation there is in those blues ....

This! That's crazy. No way they come with this much variation from the factory, right? This has to be sunbleached, I'd imagine.

The shade of blue on them (almost a greyish on some of the switches) makes it look like they are real SKCM?

They are real SKCM blue. They got the name "TaoBao Blues" based on where they come from. They are stereotypically considered to be in absolutely awful condition.

[directheatedtriode]

Simple, blue alps that came from taobao, and had been lying in some chinese junkyard submerged in mud and dirt. some of the absolute worst switches I have ever had, both in feel and condition.

The shade of blue on them (almost a greyish on some of the switches) makes it look like they are real SKCM?

???

Where did I ever say they were not genuine SKCM Blue alps? I was simply saying where they came from and the fact that they were in utter shit condition.

Gotcha I thought you meant they were a TaoBao clone.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

These "fake" IBM keyboards were manufactured by IBM Japan, where they decided not to use the buckling spring key switch mechanisms.

What leads you to believe this?

[Menuhin]

These "fake" IBM keyboards were manufactured by IBM Japan, where they decided not to use the buckling spring key switch mechanisms.

What leads you to believe this?

It sounds like Daniel wants to correct some imprecise information I stated in that sentence.
Please just let us know what is instead correct according to your years of investigations on keyboards and key switches.

To answer your question directly: skimming of DT and GH posts about Alps, not super thoroughly - like reading newspapers' headlines and then first, second, and last paragraphs only.

[directheatedtriode]

$103 for an Apple M0116 mentioning SKCM orange in the title: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-M ... 2578829851

Jeez are these the next SKCM to blow up in popularity?

[mike52787]

$103 for an Apple M0116 mentioning SKCM orange in the title: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-M ... 2578829851

Jeez are these the next SKCM to blow up in popularity?

it is only due to the condition. people who collect vintage apple computers want the keyboards as well, and this is an especially nice condition example. yellowed ones still can be had for $40-$50.

[Mattr567]

Not good even after ultrasonic cleaning?

I kind of agree that this seller probably stores these switches in conditions like those in the junkyard - exposure to humidity and large temperature change and dust and sunlight.

I never attempted ultrasonicing mine, I simply threw away the top housings and sliders, they were beyond repair. I know other people who have ultrasoniced them, and they say that it does not completely remove the scratchiness or the bind.

Yep, I ultrasonic'd mine, lubed, did EVERYTHING I could to fix them. They ended up OK I guess, but off center keypresses were still bindy.

Yours look to be in better condition than mine were


After everything:

[Tuntematon]

$103 for an Apple M0116 mentioning SKCM orange in the title: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-M ... 2578829851

Jeez are these the next SKCM to blow up in popularity?

it is only due to the condition. people who collect vintage apple computers want the keyboards as well, and this is an especially nice condition example. yellowed ones still can be had for $40-$50.

Still too much. Nice condition, but no box, slight yellowing and no guarantee of switch condition.

Not as bad as this lunacy though

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Extended- ... SwwzhZUGte

[Daniel Beardsmore]

To answer your question directly: skimming of DT and GH posts about Alps, not super thoroughly - like reading newspapers' headlines and then first, second, and last paragraphs only.

Apart from the iffy badge, as I recall there was no clear identification of any kind on these keyboards. As has been noted, IBM were extremely particular about part numbers, so I must agree with the sentiments that it's not likely that IBM would recycle a part number for a totally different design of keyboard. Also, I would expect at least something inside the keyboard to have IBM markings.

While generally Far East products stop short of actually violating trademarks, the bizarre [wiki]Aristotle Yellow[/wiki] switches do appear to have counterfeit Cherry MX mouldings complete with dodgy Cherry logos. As such, it seems perfectly possible that the IBM badges are counterfeit.

We can rule out Alps as they always had recognisable codes on the PCBs, and we appear to be able to rule out IBM on the grounds of the part number abuse it would require. As I understand it, so far as keyboards were concerned, IBM Japan generally subcontracted to other manufacturers.

I can't find more than one topic showing pictures though — like most things keyboard-related the details are scattered in far-flung places due to persistent disorganisation.

[Menuhin]

To answer your question directly: skimming of DT and GH posts about Alps, not super thoroughly - like reading newspapers' headlines and then first, second, and last paragraphs only.

Apart from the iffy badge, as I recall there was no clear identification of any kind on these keyboards. As has been noted, IBM were extremely particular about part numbers, so I must agree with the sentiments that it's not likely that IBM would recycle a part number for a totally different design of keyboard. Also, I would expect at least something inside the keyboard to have IBM markings.

While generally Far East products stop short of actually violating trademarks, the bizarre [wiki]Aristotle Yellow[/wiki] switches do appear to have counterfeit Cherry MX mouldings complete with dodgy Cherry logos. As such, it seems perfectly possible that the IBM badges are counterfeit.

We can rule out Alps as they always had recognisable codes on the PCBs, and we appear to be able to rule out IBM on the grounds of the part number abuse it would require. As I understand it, so far as keyboards were concerned, IBM Japan generally subcontracted to other manufacturers.

I can't find more than one topic showing pictures though — like most things keyboard-related the details are scattered in far-flung places due to persistent disorganisation.

Ah.... so you are referring to some parts of this sentence, especially the "IBM" part, and "manufactured by IBM Japan" part.

...manufactured by IBM Japan, where they decided not to use the buckling spring key switch mechanisms...

I can try to check the PCB after I have desoldered all the switches. It was advertised with an IBM keyboard label.

[Mattr567]

I can try to check the PCB after I have desoldered all the switches. It was advertised with an IBM keyboard label.

Its not made by IBM, thats for sure. Its some kind of Chinese clone. IBM never cloned part numbers, the fact that it shares a part number with a genuine M shows that its not genuine. I have one of these and I actually restored it Haven't posted it yet.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

My question is then; who makes all these other keycaps? There can't be THAT many companies that do it, right?

Interesting:

http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/keycaps-101/

Under bullet 15, "What Font is used on Signature Plastics’ standard keycaps?":

Thus the font became known as Gorton Modified and was used to produce millions of keycaps for years for keyboard companies like Wyse, Wang, Oak Industries, Maxi Switch, Beehive and Honeywell, among others.

Honeywell keyboards with Signature Plastics/Comptec keycaps — something to watch out for.