Designing a custom Topre board

[Tom P.]

On the case design, what's your target as far as adjustability? I know that you were thinking about tilt and tent, and that the design isn't final, but it seems very flexible. In particular, I'm wondering if the ability to go so far as tilting the thumb cluster on its side, to press the thumb keys with more natural, inward thumb movement, is a design goal?

This gruesome ErgoDox mod is someone's attempt to implement that: https://twitter.com/matt_wutrudoing/sta ... 7658120194

Just going off the renders provided, I see that the thumb cluster's angle is adjustable, but I can't tell if its position is. If the baseplate were separated such that the portion where the thumb cluster is mounted could be moved, that might be all that's needed to facilitate that particular change.

My design sensibilities aren't all that, so I shouldn't be trusted, but I wouldn't be unhappy to see the parts' adjustability taken to an extreme.


When I think about what that extreme might look like, I'm reminded of Erector sets, in a good way.

[lkong]

Managed to solder the boards this morning, found I had made an error in the SMD socket pads for the teensy, see if you can spot the problem:


Please forgive the messy soldering, it's my first time doing SMD


Shifting the socket one pin over fixes it, and fortunately the pin that is now left hanging is just the LED pin from the teensy.
Later I will find out if there are any more subtle issues

Those uf.l connectors are so sexy.

[attheicearcade]

On the case design, what's your target as far as adjustability? I know that you were thinking about tilt and tent, and that the design isn't final, but it seems very flexible. In particular, I'm wondering if the ability to go so far as tilting the thumb cluster on its side, to press the thumb keys with more natural, inward thumb movement, is a design goal?

This gruesome ErgoDox mod is someone's attempt to implement that: https://twitter.com/matt_wutrudoing/sta ... 7658120194

Just going off the renders provided, I see that the thumb cluster's angle is adjustable, but I can't tell if its position is. If the baseplate were separated such that the portion where the thumb cluster is mounted could be moved, that might be all that's needed to facilitate that particular change.

My design sensibilities aren't all that, so I shouldn't be trusted, but I wouldn't be unhappy to see the parts' adjustability taken to an extreme.


When I think about what that extreme might look like, I'm reminded of Erector sets, in a good way.

The thumb cluster is movable in pretty much all directions, but there are obviously places where it would interfere with the columns so there is somewhat of a limit in what you can do. I'll check the assembly next time I can.

-------------------

I have a slight problem in that moving forwards requires quite a significant investment of money in getting one off parts (and there's quite a few different pieces required). Looking at £600 for 1 keyboard. This was expected, but I haven't formulated a plan as of yet. I'm thinking of starting an interest check for just the case parts to check what peoples price limits would be, then perhaps a kickstarter or something so I can get the prototypes done. I'll probably get a few parts first just to check this manufacturer can make them properly. I expect the case/plate with basically everything but the electronics/switches would be under £100, I don't know how unreasonable that is for people. I know typical plates and cases are cheap as chips but this is slightly more ambitious.

[Anticham]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here, I'm looking for a technology which suppots MX Caps, it's for musical purpose then I need something with pressure sensing to acquire velocity. I need RGB light too.
I think capacitive is the best choice for me.
Now i need to draw and prototype it, this is just 16 inline switch for sequence control...
Have you heard about this:
http://www.rkgaming.com/newsshow.php?cid=4&id=5
It's Topre clone with translucent body. The price is around 120$ for the TKL.
I already ordered one and I will to reuse its parts, but I want to draw the PCB now, to receive both at the same time.
Do you know where I can find the PCB footprint shape and precise dimension for Topre/Novatouch ?
You seem to already get or measure it. Can you help me?

Antichambre

[attheicearcade]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here, I'm looking for a technology which suppots MX Caps, it's for musical purpose then I need something with pressure sensing to acquire velocity. I need RGB light too.
I think capacitive is the best choice for me.
Now i need to draw and prototype it, this is just 16 inline switch for sequence control...
Have you heard about this:
http://www.rkgaming.com/newsshow.php?cid=4&id=5
It's Topre clone with translucent body. The price is around 120$ for the TKL.
I already ordered one and I will to reuse its parts, but I want to draw the PCB now, to receive both at the same time.
Do you know where I can find the PCB footprint shape and precise dimension for Topre/Novatouch ?
You seem to already get or measure it. Can you help me?

Antichambre

I would advise making a new topic for this
Assuming you mean the individual key footprint, it's just some semicircles of around 15 mm diameter.

[litster]

Cool project! How are you sourcing your Topre switches? I have 2 old Sony video editing keyboards after I harvested the caps off of them. May be the switches in them get to live another life.

[attheicearcade]

Cool project! How are you sourcing your Topre switches? I have 2 old Sony video editing keyboards after I harvested the caps off of them. May be the switches in them get to live another life.

I'm using Novatouch switches but any standard Topre switch should be okay, normal 1u switches are used throughout. Note that the 2u thumb keys will likely need mx sliders unless you can get hold of the correct Topre keycaps.

[attheicearcade]

I posted a quick interest check up on geekhack so I can make a more informed purchasing decision:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84985.0

[rrrsss]

I'm here from the gh ic. Although I prefer mx switches, you have done tremendous work on it. I'm definitely interested in the development of the case/plate design. IMO, rows should be able to stagger to adjust for finger length, and the way you've done it is amazing. Definitely watching this thread. I feel like your design is a great improvement from Dactyl/Kinesis

[paecific.jr]

I love the design of that keyboard! Are there any files that you are sharing online?

[vinnycordeiro]

I'm a complete n00b when it comes to Topre, but would this work? I know you need to provide a full switch to this custom keyboard, I'm asking just about the rubber dome.

[pattulus]

I have a slight problem in that moving forwards requires quite a significant investment of money in getting one off parts (and there's quite a few different pieces required). Looking at £600 for 1 keyboard. This was expected, but I haven't formulated a plan as of yet. I'm thinking of starting an interest check for just the case parts to check what peoples price limits would be, then perhaps a kickstarter or something so I can get the prototypes done. I'll probably get a few parts first just to check this manufacturer can make them properly. I expect the case/plate with basically everything but the electronics/switches would be under £100, I don't know how unreasonable that is for people. I know typical plates and cases are cheap as chips but this is slightly more ambitious.

Although 714 EUR is a hefty price, I would save up for it since (A) it's the most ergonomic keyboard I can imagine [carpal tunnel syndrome here] and (B) programmable via QMK/Teensy [hope you'll add it].

[Tom P.]

I'm a complete n00b when it comes to Topre, but would this work? I know you need to provide a full switch to this custom keyboard, I'm asking just about the rubber dome.

It'd work, but it might not feel or sound quite the same. When it comes to feel and sound, the domes are much of what sets Topre switches apart from other electrostatic capacitive switches. The springs, housings and sliders contribute less to the sound and feel of the keyboard.

This mostly deals with the key feel. The keyboard's build is the biggest contributor to the sound.

[attheicearcade]

I have a slight problem in that moving forwards requires quite a significant investment of money in getting one off parts (and there's quite a few different pieces required). Looking at £600 for 1 keyboard. This was expected, but I haven't formulated a plan as of yet. I'm thinking of starting an interest check for just the case parts to check what peoples price limits would be, then perhaps a kickstarter or something so I can get the prototypes done. I'll probably get a few parts first just to check this manufacturer can make them properly. I expect the case/plate with basically everything but the electronics/switches would be under £100, I don't know how unreasonable that is for people. I know typical plates and cases are cheap as chips but this is slightly more ambitious.

Although 714 EUR is a hefty price, I would save up for it since (A) it's the most ergonomic keyboard I can imagine [carpal tunnel syndrome here] and (B) programmable via QMK/Teensy [hope you'll add it].

That is just the one off price, of course the batch keyboards would not be that expensive
It will most likely be using a fork of HaaTa's Kiibohd firmware, this is what I've settled on for my split HHKB project.

I'm a complete n00b when it comes to Topre, but would this work? I know you need to provide a full switch to this custom keyboard, I'm asking just about the rubber dome.

There is a thread about this here: keyboards-f2/korean-replacement-domes-f ... 14697.html
Seems that it does sort of work for replacing Topre domes, so it should work.

[pattulus]

It will most likely be using a fork of HaaTa's Kiibohd firmware, this is what I've settled on for my split HHKB project.

I use a Jack Humberts QMK and heavily customized my Ergodox EZ. So, I speculating that I can somehow get this to work with your board, too… somehow…. I have the feeling I will have to read a lot, but I imagine the community will help out here and there. Being able to customize my keyboard layout via QMK/TMK would increase my productivity by 40% – so it's a must that I get it to work.

Personally, I'm gonna get your board because the ergonomic aspect of your ErgoPool™/Syncline™ (or whatever it will be called) is a dream come true.

One more thing: I love my Planck, but the Ergodox additional keys really made my day since I was able to fit a lot of macro's in there. So, with the Syncline™ having the same amount of keys as the Planck, I wish there was one more column on the outside of each side to go nuts.

[attheicearcade]

I use a Jack Humberts QMK and heavily customized my Ergodox EZ. So, I speculating that I can somehow get this to work with your board, too… somehow…. I have the feeling I will have to read a lot, but I imagine the community will help out here and there. Being able to customize my keyboard layout via QMK/TMK would increase my productivity by 40% – so it's a must that I get it to work.

QMK is for AVR processors, this (Topre controller) is using ARM Cortex-M4 series. Could you port your layout to the Kiibohd controller? What is missing from Kiibohd versus QMK?
If you are talking about a handwired MX board then QMK should work, but I don't know anything about handwiring or QMK

[fruitalgorithm]

How could we help you further with this project? Do you need a donor board with Topre clone switches? Money? This is a truly amazing keyboard.

[eery petrol]

Same here, would really love to know what help you could use to move this forward.

[sandog_79]

any idea on getting just the metal for this?

[Malakai]

Any progress on this? I'd love to buy one

[styts]

This looks like a very promising design, I hope to see an update soon.

[attheicearcade]

No progress currently, the project is not dead it is just on hold - too expensive (time and money wise) to pursue at the moment.

I am considering creating a new HHKB wireless PCB since the HHKB is still my main board. I'd get a hasu controller but it seems the battery life is poor from a combination of his chosen bluetooth module and the power hungry stock HHKB motherboard (need to measure this though). I want to fix this with a totally new motherboard for the HHKB. It will also give me an excuse to play with firmware properly - so far it has been hacked together and my efforts were complicated by needing to account for split keyboards (and I am not good at writing C). I also really want to try to write a keyboard firmware with a Haskell EDSL, since I spend most of my time writing Haskell. That is probably too much work for now though.

[pattulus]

… so far it has been hacked together and my efforts were complicated by needing to account for split keyboards (and I am not good at writing C). I also really want to try to write a keyboard firmware with a Haskell EDSL, since I spend most of my time writing Haskell. That is probably too much work for now though.

Just thinking out loud here: maybe wiring it like an Ergodox, using QMK as firmware and modifying existing QMK projects is the better route. I don't know enough about chips, pcb's and C, though. What I do know is that there are already a ton of keyboard layouts which were converted to work with QMK (HKKB, Ergodox, …). Programmability-wise it's the best thing I ever touched. You can do really complex layouts with relative ease.

[hbar]

I also really want to try to write a keyboard firmware with a Haskell EDSL, since I spend most of my time writing Haskell.

Why is it that some of the brightest and most creative people on DT use the same language as I do? I haven't done much hardware work recently either, apart from TMK-ing a HHKB, also because I've been too busy writing Haskell.

[vatin]

Very interesting and waiting to order!!!!

[Phenix]

Are there any news?

[cookie]

Yes, are there?

[donkey]

Interesting project.

Out of the blue question: Have you thought about using optical key switch sensors like Wooting One uses instead of electrostatic capacitive approach?

Reason I ask is that I don't think PCB itself adds anything to the "Topre experience". As long as same dome, slider, and spring is used, experience should be the same. Problems are then 1) finding a simple way to make Topre 'switch' reflect light from the sensor, and 2) clearing the vertical path from sensor to the reflective surface. Interesting problems.

[kekstee]

The nice thing about capacitive sensing is the few electrical parts required for NKRO.

[cookie]

I feel like the women of my dreams gave me her number, I texted here and never got texted back.