IBM 5251 review (beamsprings)

[Chyros]

This one took weeks of preparation, around 4 hours of filming (51 scenes!), and several hours of editing. Hope you enjoy the video!

[depletedvespene]

Excellent video! Thanks for sharing it.



... now I want one of those as well. I have to wonder how many, if at all, made it down here back in the day.

[wobbled]

Loved the video and the keyboard, I wish I had gotten a full size rather than the 3278, that board doesn't really give you a usable layout when you take the boards size into account.

It surprises me that you didn't go over the main negative on beamsprings though - their unstable, wobbly, shitty keycap mounts.

[y11971alex]

Monumental review!

[Chyros]

It surprises me that you didn't go over the main negative on beamsprings though - their unstable, wobbly, shitty keycap mounts.

I don't mind wobble at all as long as it doesn't interfere with switch operation, which is absolutely not the case on these switches. They're ULTRA resistant to binding - even the stepped keys go down 100% smoothly when pressed on the edge of the stepping. Moreover, the spherical keycaps and steep keyboard profile encourage a different way of typing, which doesn't run into the wobble as much to begin with.

[wobbled]

Yah I know it doesn't interfere with typing, but for the amount of money they put into producing these boards back in the day I am disappointed they are not stabilised. When I had my 3278, keys would wobbled all over the place and stay in that position until I moved them. Very annoying and definitely a negative that is worth mentioning imo.

[y11971alex]

Yah I know it doesn't interfere with typing, but for the amount of money they put into producing these boards back in the day I am disappointed they are not stabilised. When I had my 3278, keys would wobbled all over the place and stay in that position until I moved them. Very annoying and definitely a negative that is worth mentioning imo.

You shouldn't criticize yourself :p

[wobbled]

Yah I know it doesn't interfere with typing, but for the amount of money they put into producing these boards back in the day I am disappointed they are not stabilised. When I had my 3278, keys would wobbled all over the place and stay in that position until I moved them. Very annoying and definitely a negative that is worth mentioning imo.

You shouldn't criticize yourself :p

well holy shit I never actually realized I typed that

[y11971alex]

Yah I know it doesn't interfere with typing, but for the amount of money they put into producing these boards back in the day I am disappointed they are not stabilised. When I had my 3278, keys would wobbled all over the place and stay in that position until I moved them. Very annoying and definitely a negative that is worth mentioning imo.

You shouldn't criticize yourself :p

well holy shit I never actually realized I typed that

TBH I never found the wobble on the 3278 much of a problem, even though that model wobbled extravagantly even for a beam spring. It may have something to do with the size of the holes on the mounting plate.

[//gainsborough]

Holy shit. It came that clean!? That's insanely good looking!!!

I never realized xwhatsits were so easy to install either - that's so cool!

[teodoran]

Great video and what a gorgeous keyboard! I guess the only thing left to cover now is a IBM System/3 desk

[wobbled]

It's not really a 'problem' I'm just a fussy bastard

[depletedvespene]

It's not really a 'problem' I'm just a fussy bastard

Wobble fast enough and you'll be a fuzzy bastard as well.

[zslane]

Those beamspring switches harken back to a time when keyboards were miniature engineering marvels. I would love to see these beamsprings given new life, the way Hall Effect has (thanks to XMIT). Sure they would be expensive, but they would also be awesome.

[Sangdrax]

Wobble is a function of the condition of the foam I think, or maybe the plastic rings in the plate mount. My 3278 fullsize has immaculate foam and almost no wobble.

Man, that 5251 board is pretty though. I see I'm not the only one who's been trawling for some blue selectric keycaps lately. Got some grey and white though.

Thomas, you should get around to reviewing one of those old Digitran capacitive boards eventually. All the smoothness and capacitive advantages of old keytronic foam and foil in the stroke but nothing but a nice solid pcb at the bottom. Plus with a bending capacitive element instead of a direct contact piece like plastic or foil, you can set the actuation distance through the voltage settings. It's like headache free Hall Effect. Just a thought as I know you like novel stuff.

[0100010]

Thought beamspring wobble was just a function of the key cap loosening up over time on the thin and small metal tab that it mounts on.

[Mattr567]

Hey Chryos how do you think Cyan Omron compares to APS and Beamspring? Before I sold my Focus 727 to you they felt very airy to me, like APS. I haven't tried beamspring yet.

Not a big fan of the airy feel, doesn't feel very sharp and precise to me.

Also you should review an AT&T 305B if you can, its the membrane BS board thats between F and M! A lighter more pingy Model M with F quality dyesubs!

[Sangdrax]

Thought beamspring wobble was just a function of the key cap loosening up over time on the thin and small metal tab that it mounts on.

Mine were on so tight I got blisters on my fingertips taking them off. Maybe that happens to ones that had the metal stuff sanded or restored? Also, there's a tiny bit of play from the material of the contamination shield needing to fit under the caps. They didn't make premade holes in the shield. They just shoved the caps on top.

If that is the main cause of wobble, then some fine plastic material could easily be used as filler. Teflon tape is a prime candidate. Wrap the mounts in that a few times and should keep it both snug and able to be removed.

[Chyros]

Hey Chryos how do you think Cyan Omron compares to APS and Beamspring? Before I sold my Focus 727 to you they felt very airy to me, like APS. I haven't tried beamspring yet.

Not a big fan of the airy feel, doesn't feel very sharp and precise to me.

Also you should review an AT&T 305B if you can, its the membrane BS board thats between F and M! A lighter more pingy Model M with F quality dyesubs!

Pulled it out of the cupboard again to check, and indeed, you're right, they DO feel airy as well! The cyan Omnoms are almost linear though, there's barely a shred of tactility in them. They're also not QUITE as smooth as APS and beam springs.

I definitely would call beamsprings clean-feeling though. It's basically the cleanest-feeling switch I've ever tried, in fact.

Thomas, you should get around to reviewing one of those old Digitran capacitive boards eventually. All the smoothness and capacitive advantages of old keytronic foam and foil in the stroke but nothing but a nice solid pcb at the bottom. Plus with a bending capacitive element instead of a direct contact piece like plastic or foil, you can set the actuation distance through the voltage settings. It's like headache free Hall Effect. Just a thought as I know you like novel stuff.

Jaysis, how am I going to get one of those?! xD

[Sangdrax]

Jaysis, how am I going to get one of those?! xD

I'd loan you mine if you were in the states, but I like it too much to risk two Atlantic transits.
If you can find one, they're pretty cheap though like most oddball old terminal boards.

[DustGod]

What a keyboard.
What a masterpiece.

(cit.)

[y11971alex]

Yah I know it doesn't interfere with typing, but for the amount of money they put into producing these boards back in the day I am disappointed they are not stabilised. When I had my 3278, keys would wobbled all over the place and stay in that position until I moved them. Very annoying and definitely a negative that is worth mentioning imo.

Fixed.

[Clavius]

Great review Thomas! I'm a bit confused though by the degree that people seem to revere beamsprings. I get the impressive build quality, unique keyfeel and simply the rarity and therefore prestige of having one, but as a keyboard per se? The ridiculous height of the whole thing, especially at the front just makes it seem awfully un-ergonomic. I find the height of the model F to be about what I can stand, I cant imagine having a twice as high ridge. In your opinion, is a beamspring a real daily driver, or more a collectors item?

[Chyros]

Great review Thomas! I'm a bit confused though by the degree that people seem to revere beamsprings. I get the impressive build quality, unique keyfeel and simply the rarity and therefore prestige of having one, but as a keyboard per se? The ridiculous height of the whole thing, especially at the front just makes it seem awfully un-ergonomic. I find the height of the model F to be about what I can stand, I cant imagine having a twice as high ridge. In your opinion, is a beamspring a real daily driver, or more a collectors item?

Honestly? Usually, by the time I'm editing the video, I've already switched to the next thing I want to do a video about. With this one I genuinely found myself not wanting to swap.

I did switch to my secondary keyboard (I generally have one on hand for use during filming) when playing games, but really, for simple games it's fine, and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

[Elrick]

and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

Your videos are like addictive PRON that entices people such as myself to become transfixed and completely obsessed with this type of keyboard, must resist the 'Beamspring' enslavement .

Understand that being weened off your videos is going to be extremely hard like coming off a krack high but I must persist if I want to keep what little sanity that is left .

[depletedvespene]

I must persist if I want to keep what little sanity that is left .

Hello and welcome...

[Chyros]

and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

Your videos are like addictive PRON that entices people such as myself to become transfixed and completely obsessed with this type of keyboard, must resist the 'Beamspring' enslavement .

Understand that being weened off your videos is going to be extremely hard like coming off a krack high but I must persist if I want to keep what little sanity that is left .

If it makes you feel better, I have enough material to get to at least the end of the year :p .

[E3E]

and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

Your videos are like addictive PRON that entices people such as myself to become transfixed and completely obsessed with this type of keyboard, must resist the 'Beamspring' enslavement .

Understand that being weened off your videos is going to be extremely hard like coming off a krack high but I must persist if I want to keep what little sanity that is left .

If one thing IS true, it is that Chyros's videos are quite influential, especially to people who are new. He is one of the only consistent resources for this kind of material too, and I feel like that alone can sway interests.

I find it interesting how SKCM Greens went from obscure, then I found some DocuTechs, which I would imagine intrigued Chyros, then he ordered some switches and built his Project Luigi, then ChucklingKumquat on reddit made tons of posts about them after spending a fortune on 59 switches, likely after watching Chyros' video, and now their value has become unaffordable to most people in the aftermarket.

This hobby is weird.

[seebart]

and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

Your videos are like addictive PRON that entices people such as myself to become transfixed and completely obsessed with this type of keyboard, must resist the 'Beamspring' enslavement .

That's pretty pathetic, it also means that you still don't have any clue that DT is MUCH bigger than Thomas. Why don't you watch his videos on YT then like the rest of the losers.

Those beamspring switches harken back to a time when keyboards were miniature engineering marvels. I would love to see these beamsprings given new life, the way Hall Effect has (thanks to XMIT). Sure they would be expensive, but they would also be awesome.

Honeywell Hall Effect has little to nothing to do with XMIT's project. Decades lie between both, in every sense.

and for typing it's just so much FUN to use. And smooth, SO SMOOTH.

Your videos are like addictive PRON that entices people such as myself to become transfixed and completely obsessed with this type of keyboard, must resist the 'Beamspring' enslavement .

Understand that being weened off your videos is going to be extremely hard like coming off a krack high but I must persist if I want to keep what little sanity that is left .

If one thing IS true, it is that Chyros's videos are quite influential, especially to people who are new. He is one of the only consistent resources for this kind of material too, and I feel like that alone can sway interests.

I find it interesting how SKCM Greens went from obscure, then I found some DocuTechs, which I would imagine intrigued Chyros, then he ordered some switches and built his Project Luigi, then ChucklingKumquat on reddit made tons of posts about them after spending a fortune on 59 switches, likely after watching Chyros' video, and now their value has become unaffordable to most people in the aftermarket.

This hobby is weird.

Very good & valid point. Overall Tom's work is more valuable than the inherent youtube price spike that follows which doesn't bother me since I own all the keyboards I need.

wiki/User:Seebart

[E3E]

Yes, it's not really Chyros' fault as much as it is the blind madness of a portion of the community.