Alps Appreciation

[//gainsborough]

I was going to post this last night but forgot!

I recently acquired a Canon AP350, so I gave my kb-101as a little bit of a makeover.



I had a Canon branded acer 6311 that the top case came from - so I thought it would be cool to keep the caps on a "Canon," ... even though it's not really a Canon. I'm not a fan of the AEK mods, though =/ I just didn't have any other ANSI mods.

[Mattr567]

I think I just won Black SKCC caps on the Indy P77

[Polecat]

Early Northgate Omnikey 102 with factory blue Alps. I was going to use this in a black Avant Stellar case, but no such luck. The early Omni boards were arranged differently, and don't mount the same way, so they won't fit the later (i.e. Avant...) case. So...back to square one. Swap out the switches on the Avant board, or live with the white simplified Alps that came there. And it turns out the caps on the (black) Avant aren't the double shots that I expected. They're stamped, and look like someone painted over the characters by hand with a dab of clear paint. Ugh. Any suggestions for replacement caps?

[Mr. J]

In the past I did not had the chance to try out an alps board. I know, thats very bad. So I need to change that...

What options do I have? Are there only vintage boards available? Do I need to build my own? Also I'm comfortable with ISO DE, I think this will be an opportunity, too...

[alh84001]

You can try newer boards with Matias switches which are comparable to (good condition) bamboo switches. With Alps, condition is everything, and depending on your preference for linear or tactile I'd recommend either a SKCL green or SKCM orange respectively. There are more exotic and "better" alps switches, but this is the sweet spot between rarity and feel. Unfortunately, in Europe, orange switches are a bit more rare, but I would recomend trying to get Apple's m0116/m0118 or 658-4081. If numpad is a must for you, there are options there as well.

[Chyros]

You have two choices. Get a Matias board, and discover a modern re-interpretation of the switch, or dig for a clean old one, and find out about the originals. MOST people agree the older switches are better, but whether going through the trouble and time of actually finding one that works and is in good condition is worth it, is a matter of opinion.

I'd say the Matias Quiet switches are not that far off from the originals. If you want them, I'd just go Matias and save yourself the time.

The clicky switches are lighter and noticeably more tactile than Alps switches, but Alps switches feel a bit more refined and balanced, and make a better noise.

Matias sell loose dampened linear switches. These are extremely light and have a somewhat weird feel. Linear Alps, especially green or even linearised blacks, are fantastic linear switches.

If you do decide to go old-school, please ONLY get an Alps board that's in pristine condition. Otherwise you end up with a gamble, and even if you get lucky, it'll never be as good as it should be.

[//gainsborough]

Early Northgate Omnikey 102 with factory blue Alps. I was going to use this in a black Avant Stellar case, but no such luck. The early Omni boards were arranged differently, and don't mount the same way, so they won't fit the later (i.e. Avant...) case. So...back to square one. Swap out the switches on the Avant board, or live with the white simplified Alps that came there.

Or you could use the 102, right? Or do you not have the case for it? Those early 102s came with a gorgeous golden lable - my advice would be to use that case if you still have it =) You could even paint it black if that's the main reason you're going for the avant.

[Polecat]

/quote="//gainsborough";p=384117]

Or you could use the 102, right? Or do you not have the case for it? Those early 102s came with a gorgeous golden lable - my advice would be to use that case if you still have it =) You could even paint it black if that's the main reason you're going for the avant.[/quote]

I have the case for the 102; in fact I have about a dozen Northgates here from all three generations, but most of them are badly yellowed. I can paint the case, but I was really hoping for some black caps that looked nice. Double shot or dye sub that won't wear off. I have several black Alps keyboards - Avant, Focus, Ancer/Datacomp, Dell, Macally, and not a one of them has a decent set of caps. And...I have several blue Alps keyboards with yellowed cases and caps. I know, life is tough. I'll make something work, I just have to hit on the right combination. My desk gets sun during the day (not when I'm on the 'puter) so black or non-yellowing at least is a must.

One of the Northgates is a rebranded version, "Cutting Edge", with Mac-style caps (italics, for lack of a better word). The case and (double shot) caps on that one are molded in gray, and aren't yellowed at all. But that one is a second gen Northgate, different layout, and I really don't care for the Mac-style caps anyhow. I could swap some blue Alps switches into that one, but it's not really my first choice, for look or layout.

To digress just a bit, in digging through the Northgates last night I found that I have two of the first gen 102s built less than a month apart--the blue Alps one above, and a white Alps one from just a few weeks later. Both gold label, identical layout and info on the stickers other than the dates and serial numbers, so this would narrow down the change from blue to white Alps to less than a month's time. Presumably with all the interest in the Northgates someone has documented this already, but if not I can share the info from those.

[Polecat]

I think I just won Black SKCC caps on the Indy P77

That...is truly a thing of beauty. Just wow.

[//gainsborough]

One of the Northgates is a rebranded version, "Cutting Edge", with Mac-style caps (italics, for lack of a better word). The case and (double shot) caps on that one are molded in gray, and aren't yellowed at all. But that one is a second gen Northgate, different layout, and I really don't care for the Mac-style caps anyhow. I could swap some blue Alps switches into that one, but it's not really my first choice, for look or layout.

This sounds interesting! Do you have pics of it?

[//gainsborough]

I finally got around to click modding some salmon alps! I had been wanting to do it for a while but hadn't had any spare salmons until Alienman82 hooked me up with some!

I put them in an OG dell board:





I sanded the mounting plate and painted it a "satin nickel" color - which I think looks really neat!! As far as the mod goes, they basically feel like heavier white alps to me. They have a great sound, though. Here's a quick typing demo:

I'll probably use the board for a week, but it's not my favorite alps mod - at least, insofar as keyfeel - because it might be the best sounding alps hybrid I've created. I really do love this sound!

[Polecat]

One of the Northgates is a rebranded version, "Cutting Edge", with Mac-style caps (italics, for lack of a better word). The case and (double shot) caps on that one are molded in gray, and aren't yellowed at all. But that one is a second gen Northgate, different layout, and I really don't care for the Mac-style caps anyhow. I could swap some blue Alps switches into that one, but it's not really my first choice, for look or layout.

This sounds interesting! Do you have pics of it?

Two Northgates with Mac-style caps. The rebranded "Cutting Edge" one, and an Omnimac Ultra. Same layout, different color plastic. Both are "Gen 2" Northgates with two ADB connectors and PS/2. Yes, they need a bath, been in storage for 20-plus years.

[//gainsborough]

That's really cool! I had never seen either of those before. Do they still have a metal back panel?

You know, as dirty as those things look, their mounting plates look spotless in those pics!

[Polecat]

That's really cool! I had never seen either of those before. Do they still have a metal back panel?

You know, as dirty as those things look, their mounting plates look spotless in those pics!

As far as I know all the Northgates had the steel back panel. I've been referring to them as Gen1, Gen 2, and Gen 3, but that's not an official term, and if someone has a good reference to these I'd love to see it. Gen 1 is what I call the early ones with the gold label. Single board, mounted to the bezel (not the plate), and no dip switches, only an XT/AT switch on the back. Far as I know those were only available in the 102 layout, with Ctrl next to the A key. Function keys on the left. Gen 2 had a second board underneath the main board, with a blue and white label, and came in several layouts. Those had a detachable cord, with the dip switches accessed through slots in the base plate on the back edge. Some had two ADB (Mac) connectors in addition to the PS/2. Gen 3 also had two boards, but had a bigger bezel, and had a door on the bezel for the switches. Again several layouts. I'm no expert, just basing that on the ones I've played with. They are clean inside, just dusty from sitting in my bedroom closet for twenty-some years.

[Chyros]

I finally got around to click modding some salmon alps! I had been wanting to do it for a while but hadn't had any spare salmons until Alienman82 hooked me up with some!

I put them in an OG dell board:





I sanded the mounting plate and painted it a "satin nickel" color - which I think looks really neat!! As far as the mod goes, they basically feel like heavier white alps to me. They have a great sound, though. Here's a quick typing demo:

I'll probably use the board for a week, but it's not my favorite alps mod - at least, insofar as keyfeel - because it might be the best sounding alps hybrid I've created. I really do love this sound!

I don't know why, but for some reason salmon Alps in the Bigfoot feel stiffer than they do in Apple boards Oo . Probably just a coincidence, but still.

[//gainsborough]

I've actually never tried an apple board with salmon alps in it. Though, I did have a wang 725 with salmons in it at one point - they did seem lighter than this. Small sample size, though.

Here's a question, though: which provides more resistance, a click leaf or a tactile leaf?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

How do you define "resistance"? I assume this is nothing to do with Ohm's law. The difference between click and tactile leaves is more a case of how precise the tactile sensation is: tactile leaves tend to feel weaker as they don't have the same sharp drop in force. They also seem more prone to creating friction.

You could compare the graphs here to get a better idea: https://plot.ly/~haata/

SMK's answer was to use a click leaf and then chamfer the slider to stop the click sound being created, which works fairly well. The click leaf is nonetheless different, but in a clicky switch, it will click. Alps at one stage put a click leaf in front of an open space so that it wouldn't create a sound, but this does take up extra space in the switch.

[//gainsborough]

Hmmmmmm. Let's take a white alps switch as an example. We know the white alps force curve, and that's with the click leaf in it. But what would it's force curve look like if we replace the click leaf with a tactile one? Would it require more force to actuate? To bottom out? Or do you think it would require less force?

Intuitively, I feel like click leaves would create a situation wherein it would require more force to "overcome the bump," as it were, since the leaf is allowed to move with the slider before overcoming the teeth. I'm not sure if my intuition is correct here, though.

[seebart]

I finally got around to click modding some salmon alps! I had been wanting to do it for a while but hadn't had any spare salmons until Alienman82 hooked me up with some!

I put them in an OG dell board:

I sanded the mounting plate and painted it a "satin nickel" color - which I think looks really neat!! As far as the mod goes, they basically feel like heavier white alps to me. They have a great sound, though. Here's a quick typing demo:

I'll probably use the board for a week, but it's not my favorite alps mod - at least, insofar as keyfeel - because it might be the best sounding alps hybrid I've created. I really do love this sound!

Very nice, Id love to try that with my old Dell! Yeez that plate is clean.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hmmmmmm. Let's take a white alps switch as an example. We know the white alps force curve, and that's with the click leaf in it. But what would it's force curve look like if we replace the click leaf with a tactile one? Would it require more force to actuate? To bottom out? Or do you think it would require less force?

https://plot.ly/~haata/270/alps-skcm-blue/
https://plot.ly/~haata/297/alps-skcm-orange/

These are within tolerance of being specified identically. The force curve is different, but the amount of force required is the same.

Officially, blue and ivory are 70 g, but blue as tested above is 60 g, while salmon (which replaced orange) comes in at 70 g:

https://plot.ly/~haata/299/alps-skcm-salmon/

I suspect we need a lot more samples before we can feel certain that the data is accurate.

[Chyros]

Hmmmmmm. Let's take a white alps switch as an example. We know the white alps force curve, and that's with the click leaf in it. But what would it's force curve look like if we replace the click leaf with a tactile one? Would it require more force to actuate? To bottom out? Or do you think it would require less force?

https://plot.ly/~haata/270/alps-skcm-blue/
https://plot.ly/~haata/297/alps-skcm-orange/

These are within tolerance of being specified identically. The force curve is different, but the amount of force required is the same.

Officially, blue and ivory are 70 g, but blue as tested above is 60 g, while salmon (which replaced orange) comes in at 70 g:

https://plot.ly/~haata/299/alps-skcm-salmon/

I suspect we need a lot more samples before we can feel certain that the data is accurate.

One serious flaw in the wiki I feel at the moment is the assumption that what companies did was both consistent as well as logical, while basically everything points at it being the opposite of both. It's the assumption of rigidity in what appears to be a market that's about as logical as Jell-o.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

One serious flaw in the wiki I feel at the moment is the assumption that what companies did was both consistent as well as logical, while basically everything points at it being the opposite of both. It's the assumption of rigidity in what appears to be a market that's about as logical as Jell-o.

In what way would you classify the market as "illogical"? Under whose rules are you basing your notion of logic?

If you disagree with the wiki content, then you should collect evidence to contradict it and post this evidence to the wiki. The wiki isn't some foreign entity over which you have no control: you're as equally responsible for correcting it as everyone else.

[Polecat]

I decided to save the badly yellowed Multitech KB101A. Dell caps except for the bottom row. Spacebar is a bit greenish, but that's how it came. I think I have another one here someplace. Case needs to be a shade or two darker, working on that next. And it'll get some more modern LEDs. I also have a fix for the lower front edge where someone opened it wrong. We'll see how that works.

[Elrick]

Case needs to be a shade or two darker, working on that next. And it'll get some more modern LEDs. I also have a fix for the lower front edge where someone opened it wrong. We'll see how that works.

Keyboard casing looks alright from the photo you provided BUT make sure if you are going to start customizing this baby to your specific requirements, please replace that awful beige coiled keyboard cable with a "Black" coloured version.

Then watch every ALPs lover here on DT, wet themselves with excitement when you post the new modification pictures .

[Polecat]

Keyboard casing looks alright from the photo you provided BUT make sure if you are going to start customizing this baby to your specific requirements, please replace that awful beige coiled keyboard cable with a "Black" coloured version.

Then watch every ALPs lover here on DT, wet themselves with excitement when you post the new modification pictures .[/quote]

Black cord, check. Blacker spacebar, done. Ordered some LEDs. Just need a different USB converter or a powered hub now. Works perfectly on a PS/2 port, but on USB with a blue cube it sometimes doesn't catch the release scan codes, and randomly resets. Probably just pulling too much current, but it might need new filter caps.

I'm not planning any other mods, other than perhaps a repaint in matte black and adding a logo of some sort. But I kinda like the charcoal gray vinyl/plastic paint, other than that odd shiny spot. Plate and switches are like new, so I didn't touch those other than cleaning the outside. This is a driver and I plan to use it. Thanks to the nice folks here who talked me out of parting this one out.

[//gainsborough]

Black cord, check. Blacker spacebar, done. Ordered some LEDs. Just need a different USB converter or a powered hub now. Works perfectly on a PS/2 port, but on USB with a blue cube it sometimes doesn't catch the release scan codes, and randomly resets. Probably just pulling too much current, but it might need new filter caps.

I'm not planning any other mods, other than perhaps a repaint in matte black and adding a logo of some sort. But I kinda like the charcoal gray vinyl/plastic paint, other than that odd shiny spot. Plate and switches are like new, so I didn't touch those other than cleaning the outside. This is a driver and I plan to use it. Thanks to the nice folks here who talked me out of parting this one out.

Absolutely gorgeous! Nice work, man - hell of a daily driver for sure!

[Elrick]

I'm not planning any other mods, other than perhaps a repaint in matte black and adding a logo of some sort. But I kinda like the charcoal gray vinyl/plastic paint, other than that odd shiny spot. Plate and switches are like new, so I didn't touch those other than cleaning the outside. This is a driver and I plan to use it. Thanks to the nice folks here who talked me out of parting this one out.

Please keep the current colour of the keyboard casing because having an all BLACK coloured number is boring. Besides the colour-way you have going here is far more optimal in that the keys are easily seen within that gorgeous dark grey frame of the keyboard.

Sometimes using the same colour all over the keyboard, makes it look 'cheap' like all the garbage membrane keyboards selling for $12 each. For myself the Black coloured keyboards are now old hat and should be dispeansed into the bin. Now I am waiting for the return of "Beige" because that came in a variety of shades and finishes, that any hard-core keyboard lover would appreciate. Also you don't see dust easily on lighter coloured keyboards.

[Polecat]

Please keep the current colour of the keyboard casing because having an all BLACK coloured number is boring. Besides the colour-way you have going here is far more optimal in that the keys are easily seen within that gorgeous dark grey frame of the keyboard.

Sometimes using the same colour all over the keyboard, makes it look 'cheap' like all the garbage membrane keyboards selling for $12 each. For myself the Black coloured keyboards are now old hat and should be dispeansed into the bin. Now I am waiting for the return of "Beige" because that came in a variety of shades and finishes, that any hard-core keyboard lover would appreciate. Also you don't see dust easily on lighter coloured keyboards.

Does it count that I wanted a black keyboard ever since seeing a NeXt? I agree on the black ones representing junk now, but *I* know what's inside of this one. I started typing in the old terminal days, when every model had a different look and feel, so I can relate. (Anyone know what kind of switches were in a Morrow MDT60? That's the first keyboard I used that had a really nice feel to it...) I'm a pretty boring person, and I have nothing against beige except that it eventually turns yellow in the sun. I've had several other black colored Alps boards over the years for that reason--Focus, Ancer, Dell, and just recently an Avant Stellar, but none of them were "it" for whatever reason. Not to worry, I'll keep the Acer gray. It'll get a nice logo of some sort, and some upgraded LEDS. Maybe even some different caps here and there.

[fohat]

I'll keep the Acer gray. It'll get a nice logo of some sort, and some upgraded LEDS. Maybe even some different caps here and there.

I used a black Dell AT101W case with modern Tai Hao Dolch caps and it looks pretty good. Unfortunately there are 2-3 that don't fit so I had to keep the black ones.

[Mattr567]

Not bad for a phone camera