Alps Appreciation

[Alpinist]

I might still use the sun, just to be safe...

Not that I don't believe you... It's to be safe... from my clumsiness... On my first attempt I could only leave it for a couple of hours in the sunshine and it was not quite enough so I decided to complete the process leaving it close to an halogen lamp as I knew plain heat would work too...

... Errr... let's just say that when I came back I realised I placed the spacebar too close to the lamp!!!

[Elrick]

I would avoid sunlight, the sun is the enemy.

For PBT plastics YES it is but NOT for us.

We are daylight creatures that do indeed require daily dosages of our 'Sky Furnace' to maintain a stable Vitamin D level within our bodies.

The Sun helps to build strong bones, ligaments and muscles. Also it's FREE, available every 12 hours, hence start enjoying it instead of locking yourselves up in dark boxes that are air-conditioned.

End of Service Announcement .

[smithyithy]

Cheers guys! I actually don't mind the yellow space bar too much, I think it adds a touch of patina to the board haha.

But I will probably attempt whitening anyway for uniformity, so appreciate the advice!

[depletedvespene]

… start enjoying it instead of locking yourselves up in dark boxes that are air-conditioned

Instead of my private little piece of heaven? WHY?

[Alpinist]

Cheers guys! I actually don't mind the yellow space bar too much, I think it adds a touch of patina to the board haha.

But I will probably attempt whitening anyway for uniformity, so appreciate the advice!

In any case you have already done the difficult part! Congratulations again. That is a gorgeous (and I'm sure wonderful. I love the feeling of Orange ALPS) keyboard!

And... stay away from very close halogen laps!!

[Polecat]

This thing was produced 2 days earlier than your blue alps omnikey, but has white alps. So, it looks like there was a gradual switch transition in early May 1989.

Neat! Thanks for sharing that. The serial number and the other eight digit tag number (whatever it represents) are also slightly lower than mine. Note that early Focus boards also had a similar eight digit number on the same type of tag, and that some of them were in the same 80xxxxxx format from the same time period.

<Disclaimer> Only certain people are allowed to speculate here, so I'm officially out of line for making any of the following suggestions.

It doesn't appear there were multiple assembly plants, nor any distinction between blue and white switches, based on the similarity in labelling and keyboard features. We don't know (at least I don't think we do...) when or where the serial numbers and dates were assigned. By that I mean whether they were numbered coming off the assembly line(s), or after an order was placed, or when they were actually shipped? If it was the latter and white Alps boards were stacked in front of or on top of blue Alps boards they could have gotten out of sequence, number-wise. And the amount of inventory that was kept on hand would determine how much of an overlap there was on the two switch types in that case. All pure speculation, since I wasn't there.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That's precisely the sort of reason why I always advise gathering plenty of data first and then analysing it.

Some of the common knowledge we have is Chinese whispers so old that nobody knows where the information came from. MouseFan's Alps timeline chart was one source of data on Alps switches, but it's already proven to be incomplete and inaccurate, and there's no raw data to go with it to analyse, so there's no way to reassess the chart. That's why I started from scratch.

Generally, most dates we have for Alps seem to broadly correct, though.

[Polecat]

That's precisely the sort of reason why I always advise gathering plenty of data first and then analysing it.

Some of the common knowledge we have is Chinese whispers so old that nobody knows where the information came from. MouseFan's Alps timeline chart was one source of data on Alps switches, but it's already proven to be incomplete and inaccurate, and there's no raw data to go with it to analyse, so there's no way to reassess the chart. That's why I started from scratch.

Generally, most dates we have for Alps seem to broadly correct, though.

Exactly what I'm trying to do. But I also think it's valuable to throw ideas against the wall to see if anything sticks. In science even a theory that's proven wrong is a success if it furthers the knowledge, and good ideas are not limited to the experts. I very much appreciate all the contributions from everyone here, for whatever that's worth.

[seebart]

Only certain people are allowed to speculate here, so I'm officially out of line for making any of the following suggestions.

NO. Anyone can speculate all they want which is most of what this is. It only becomes problematic when someone is speculating but stating the speculation like a fact and then others may accept it as a fact. I've seen that happen here on occasion and it's obvioulsy extemely counter-productive. We could use a "speculation font-color" like the brown-irony font color?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The problem isn't speculation; it is that people pass on information as fact that they read somewhere, and nobody ever knows where the information came from or whether it's even true, and no critical thinking gets applied at any whisper step. Sometimes this information is wrong, but without any sources or references cited, it's difficult or even impossible to prove whether it's true or not. It's why I'm so insistent on data on the wiki being demonstrated or referenced: it doesn't prove that it's true, but it allows anyone who doubts it to double-check for themselves. Being scientific is good!

Also, the information is scattered about all across the forum and the web and it's very hard to find again, or to discover at all.

[seebart]

The problem isn't speculation; it is that people pass on information as fact that they read somewhere, and nobody ever knows where the information came from or whether it's even true, and no critical thinking gets applied at any whisper step. Sometimes this information is wrong, but without any sources or references cited, it's difficult or even impossible to prove whether it's true or not. It's why I'm so insistent on data on the wiki being demonstrated or referenced: it doesn't prove that it's true, but it allows anyone who doubts it to double-check for themselves. Being scientific is good!

Also, the information is scattered about all across the forum and the web and it's very hard to find again, or to discover at all.

Same thing Daniel! Call it what you will, it's unverified information. Much of what we are dealing with here is still unverified.

[Polecat]

Only certain people are allowed to speculate here, so I'm officially out of line for making any of the following suggestions.

NO. Anyone can speculate all they want which is most of what this is. It only becomes problematic when someone is speculating but stating the speculation like a fact and then others may accept it as a fact. I've seen that happen here on occasion and it's obvioulsy extemely counter-productive. We could use a "speculation font-color" like the brown-irony font color?

Too bad brown is already taken; it would be perfect for stuff known to be wrong (i.e. steer manure) by the poster (we have no room for irony here...).

Being the Land of the Ultimate Keyboard someone here needs to come up with one that senses this stuff automatically, and fills in the proper colors. (note that's not in brown)

[E3E]

Only certain people are allowed to speculate here, so I'm officially out of line for making any of the following suggestions.

NO. Anyone can speculate all they want which is most of what this is. It only becomes problematic when someone is speculating but stating the speculation like a fact and then others may accept it as a fact. I've seen that happen here on occasion and it's obvioulsy extemely counter-productive. We could use a "speculation font-color" like the brown-irony font color?

I get quite bothered when people frame subjective thoughts as fact. There are some people that have a very strong tendency to do this. It's annoying to me. I love speculation, so long as it's voiced as such.

If you think something is better, don't say that it is better, say that you feel they're better unless there's enough objectivity to that idea that you can get away with it, I guess.

Even if there's an overwhelming opinion in the community that one switch is better than the other, it should be stated as such.

Like, this applies especially to people who don't explain themselves. Bad switch design is something you can certainly talk about, and there are some really poorly designed switches out there.

But this isn't even getting into things like timeline and manufacturing speculation, say... about Alps.

It's fun to guess at timelines and connections, but manufacturing? You really have to dig deep to know any specifics there.

[seebart]

Too bad brown is already taken; it would be perfect for stuff known to be wrong (i.e. steer manure) by the poster (we have no room for irony here...).

Any color would do really.

Only certain people are allowed to speculate here, so I'm officially out of line for making any of the following suggestions.

NO. Anyone can speculate all they want which is most of what this is. It only becomes problematic when someone is speculating but stating the speculation like a fact and then others may accept it as a fact. I've seen that happen here on occasion and it's obvioulsy extemely counter-productive. We could use a "speculation font-color" like the brown-irony font color?

I get quite bothered when people frame subjective thoughts as fact. There are some people that have a very strong tendency to do this. It's annoying to me. I love speculation, so long as it's voiced as such.

If you think something is better, don't say that it is better, say that you feel they're better unless there's enough objectivity to that idea that you can get away with it, I guess.

Even if there's an overwhelming opinion in the community that one switch is better than the other, it should be stated as such.

Like, this applies especially to people who don't explain themselves. Bad switch design is something you can certainly talk about, and there are some really poorly designed switches out there.

But this isn't even getting into things like timeline and manufacturing speculation, say... about Alps.

It's fun to guess at timelines and connections, but manufacturing? You really have to dig deep to know any specifics there.

Yeah we've had this situation here quite a few times and the solution is easy like you say:

Call the poster of speculative information out on SPECIFIC references regarding his claim.

if the poster sticks to his claim without references then make sure to clearly repeat that we are unaware of this data and it's apparently speculation and ask for the poster to prove otherwise perreference. The more people obide by this simple guideline the easier it will be to clarify and these instances will become more obvious to all of us. This is very important since we have many users here that don't have the time to evaluate these details and then just take these claims for granted.

[rich1051414]

I would avoid sunlight, the sun is the enemy.

For PBT plastics YES it is but NOT for us.

We are daylight creatures that do indeed require daily dosages of our 'Sky Furnace' to maintain a stable Vitamin D level within our bodies.

The Sun helps to build strong bones, ligaments and muscles. Also it's FREE, available every 12 hours, hence start enjoying it instead of locking yourselves up in dark boxes that are air-conditioned.

End of Service Announcement .

ABS hates the sun, not PBT.

And I have one thing to say about the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTnzwvx4AO0

[seebart]

And I have one thing to say about the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTnzwvx4AO0

overly-attached-sun-meme.jpg (102.45 KiB) Viewed 5729 times

[waldorf120]

Just built an Alps Preonic. Wanted to try out the ortholinear scene. Looking forward to the XD75, 60 keys is just not enough!

[smithyithy]

Quick question guys - I'm ordering an HHKB plate for an Alps build - like this: http://i.imgur.com/ITDvQBt.png

Question is what stabs will I need to use for the 6u space bar? I'm planning to use the Alpine Winter set (made by Signature Plastics)

[mike52787]

Quick question guys - I'm ordering an HHKB plate for an Alps build - like this: http://i.imgur.com/ITDvQBt.png

Question is what stabs will I need to use for the 6u space bar? I'm planning to use the Alpine Winter set (made by Signature Plastics)

either cherry or costar should work.

[andrewjoy]

Quick question guys - I'm ordering an HHKB plate for an Alps build - like this: http://i.imgur.com/ITDvQBt.png

Question is what stabs will I need to use for the 6u space bar? I'm planning to use the Alpine Winter set (made by Signature Plastics)

either cherry or costar should work.

Do they do standard 60% ansi plates ?

If so where do i get one , i need one for my 60% alps board

[Cavemanthe0ne]

I hope off brands are OK too
Russian keyboard with a ... large variety of Alps.TW switches.




Also my Mitsume Mechanical alps mount AEK II. My adapter show up in a few days for it (hopefully)

[Chyros]

Hmmm, neon green KPT clones, never seen those before Oo .

[seebart]

Hmmm, neon green KPT clones, never seen those before Oo .

Me neither, I asked Cavemanthe0ne to post a full thread on that KB I think it's worth it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I hope off brands are OK too :P
Russian keyboard with a ... large variety of Alps.TW switches.

alps.tw is a person. I am not aware that he ever classified that type of switch. They're on the wiki under [wiki]KPT-like switch[/wiki] as "O" series pending a better name.

I have a bunch of them from a Bulgarian here (do we know that this keyboard is Russian and not Bulgarian?), in three colours: yellow, green, and if I remember correctly, ivory. I've yet to inspect them closely to see how they differ, and they feel roughly the same. It's curious to see how the green ones are used, as this chap seems to have no idea where his switches came from.

More curious is that space bar doesn't have a different switch type.

[Cavemanthe0ne]

I hope off brands are OK too
Russian keyboard with a ... large variety of Alps.TW switches.

alps.tw is a person. I am not aware that he ever classified that type of switch. They're on the wiki under [wiki]KPT-like switch[/wiki] as "O" series pending a better name.

I have a bunch of them from a Bulgarian here (do we know that this keyboard is Russian and not Bulgarian?), in three colours: yellow, green, and if I remember correctly, ivory. I've yet to inspect them closely to see how they differ, and they feel roughly the same. It's curious to see how the green ones are used, as this chap seems to have no idea where his switches came from.

More curious is that space bar doesn't have a different switch type.

It came from Kiev.

Also just made a thread on the keyboard in the ... Keyboard section here lol.
Interesting that they are KPT clones, the wiki is a bit odd when it comes to sorting them which is why I thought they were alps.tw lol. Is no issue though, now that I know what they are.

But still seems like an interesting type of switch.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

alps.tw is a collector, from Taiwan I assume. I've simply taken his switch classification codes and added "alps.tw Type " in front. Due to money-grabbing, the photos on the relevant KBtalKing page—hosted by Photobucket—no longer load, but all the images are archived in the wiki. Wiki page [wiki]Alps.tw switch gallery key[/wiki] lists all of the Alps-mount switches that he classified on that page. The type in question is not one of them, as presumably he never obtained any at the time.

[smithyithy]

Thanks for the replies re: 6u stabilisers guys. I've kinda conceded that it's more hassle than it's worth for the build I have planned, so I've sold the case I was going to use (full HHKB-sized blockers) and bought a similar one with equal sized corner blockers, which should allow me to use a regular sized space, but still effectively use the HHKB layout.

[flowerlandfilms]

I turned a cherry board into an Alps board because screw the man.

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[rich1051414]

How did you pull that off? Aren't the mounting holes in different places?

[E3E]

I turned a cherry board into an Alps board because screw the man.

012.jpg

It's funny because there are Alps versions of these, the SN-911 button boxes.

I have two of them, had three. XP