SKB75 / SKB65 / SKB60 - GB CONCLUDED

PlastikSchnittstelle · 10 Apr 2018, 18:13

Hi everyone,

after a long IC phase I'm finally starting the GroupBuy for my custom case. I don't want to write a lot about concept, construction, design and features, since I already did this quite extensively in the IC opening post and throughout the discussion there. I'll summarize, do some c&p and add what's necessary.

2020.04.03: Final post

2019.08.07: SHIPPING STARTED

2019.05.09: about address change

2019.05.03: remaining stock available

2019.05.03: proceed as planned - sorting, packing, shipping

2019.05.01: Quality control

2019.04.19: PARTS ARRIVED!

2019.02.20: another delay

2018.10.22: Looking good, three little updates here

2018.10.13: making up for the missing ones on reddit

2018.10.08: 60WKL & 75 samples arrived, see teaser pics here and boradwalk version support announced

2018.09.11: payment phase extended until beginning of Oktober in order to compensate for those who don't pay. Awaiting 60WKL & 75 samples, they should help to convince a few more to join and get to the expected number.

2018.09.06: payment status update, many still missing, link to post.

2018.08.07: participants should check their spam folder. info email was sent out a few days ago. Invoices are out now. Orders are still accepted until the end of payment phase, beginning of September.

TL;DR

This is a GB for a high profile, top-mount, custom keyboard case. It is made of thick, bent aluminium. The surface is bead blasted and black anodized. The plate is black galvanized steel. You can choose between different 60% versions (Standard, Winkeyless, HHKB and YAS) as well as a 65% and a 75% version. You just get the case, plate and accessories like screws but no PCB (except for the YAS version, there you can order the case with the PCB if you like). All popular 60%, 65% and 75% PCBs are supported. It is made in Germany. Shipping world wide.

Features:

75%, 65% and 60% (Standard, Winkeyless, HHKB, YAS and Ortholinear)
high-profile (2mm above lower edge of caps)
top-mount
height adjustability (6, 8, 10, 12 and 14 degrees)
case material: 3 mm 2 mm thick aluminium
case finish: bead blasted and anodized, black
plate material: 1.5 mm steel
plate finish: black galvanized
supports most PCBs and fancy layouts like split spacebar

SKBXX GB ORDER FORM

/

More pictures and video:

About this case

Spoiler:

You can find a lot of custom keyboard cases here. They are CNC milled, which is awesome but quite expensive as well. I wanted to provide an alternative that gives you all the benefits of a solid aluminium keyboard but for a considerably lower price. So instead of milling the parts of the keyboard from a block, I decided to go for laser cutting and bending thick sheets.

The design is simple. The decision for a material thickness of 3mm 2mm in combination with the plate mounting method and the bolts piercing through the frame lead to a pretty wide frame. The sides overlapping at the edges is a deliberate choice which should emphasize on the method of folding, rather then trying to hide it. It also exposes the thickness of the material. Some of you described it as "brutalist", "utilitarian" or "industrial" - all undeniable true in some way.

I like to view it as a robust and reliable, everyday tool with a focus on typing experience and ergonomics.

I want to point out a few things I had in mind when designing this case:

At first, I wanted it to be a simple implementation of a top-mount case, cause IMHO top-mount is best-mount
Secondly, the first and lowest or "initial" key row should be as low as possible. This is illustrated in one of the pictures down below.
Thirdly, height adjustability. We prefer our keyboard at a certain angle but not everybody likes the same. So I wanted height adjustability to be an integral part of the design. You can choose between different angles: 6, 8, 10, 12 and 14 degrees.
Though the first prototype wasn't a high profile case, the initial feedback I got, plus the IC made it obvious, that it would have to be a high profile case. After making that decision, I wanted it to be a "really" high profile case, much like old keyboards. This means the bezel doesn't level with the lower edge of a cherry-profile keycap, instead it exceeds it by roughly 2mm (1,9mm measured in CAD). In other words, keycaps sink 2 mm deep into the frame.
No branding, nowhere, nothing.

: 01 SKB60-explosion.jpg (287.01 KiB) Viewed 50654 times

: 02 SKB60-angles.jpg (179.83 KiB) Viewed 50654 times

: 03 SKB60-height.png (32.97 KiB) Viewed 50654 times

You can find much more information about the whole process and how we got here, by taking a look at the IC thread.

PCBs, plates and layouts
Any of the popular PCBs with the USB port on the left side will fit. Don't bother about screw-hole positions on the PCB, this is totally irrelevant in this case because it is a top-mount construction, not a tray-mount.

For the 60% there is plate A that supports most popular layouts including split spacebar. The YAS PCB gets its own plate. 65% 75% each have one plate, both support split spacebar as well.

Especially providing an option for the YAS62 - a project that I really like - was important to me. I have two of these PCBs and can't wait to finally put them to use. Silentreader still has some PCBs left that you can get, just PM him. The YAS PCBs will be sent to me. In the order form you have the option to add the YAS PCB to your order to get it from me together with the case. Price is 37€.

The plate does not support switch-top removal or alps switches. Yes, I probably could have convinced some more by offering those, but I made this decision because I wanted the plate to have as much mass as possible and the switches to fit tightly. Just lube your switches before you put them in

All plates are ANSI/ISO unified and only support Cherry PCB mount stabilizers.

UPDATE:
I have added another plate option to choose from. Now SKB60 is available with an ortholinear plate, which support the XD75 PCB for example.

UPDATE 2:
Small plate updates regarding split spacebar support. SKB65 now available as well. Dropped one layout -> YAS now has it's own, dedicated plate.

UPDATE 3:
BOARDWALK support added. Two different plates for Boardwalk, see pictures below and linked album here. Boardwalk options added to the order form.

updated plates/layouts on imgur

Dimensions and weight

Spoiler:

What you get

Spoiler:

Nit-picking

Spoiler:

Made in Germany

Spoiler:

Pricing

Spoiler:

Shipping

Spoiler:

Timeline

GB start (2018.04.10)
collecting orders via form (started 2018.04.10)
payment phase (2018.08.04 - 2018.11)
placing the order (2018.10)
production (~ 5 Months)
packing and shipping ~ May 2109
GB concluded ~ June

( grey = past / red = present / blue = future )

Updates

(2018-04-11) besides PayPal I will also accept SEPA and N26
(2018-04-11) you can also order extra plates. 30€ per extra plate. just write in the comments
(2018-04-11) maybe an ortho plate for the SKB60 will be made, see here
(2018-04-13) finished the 3rd build, uploaded to imgur
(2018-04-14) uploaded typing demonstration to youtube
(2018-04-15) Ortholinear plate for SKB60 now available, form updated
(2018-04-15) uploaded some outdoor shots to imgur
(2018-04-15) SKB and me showed up at a little meetup
(2018-04-15) SKB60 case and YAS PCB shipping together?
(2018-04-17) YAS PCB available as well now, order form updated
(2018-04-20) schedule pushed back. payment phase ~end of may, orders till then
(2018-05-03) added illustrations of the different versions, 65% will be added soon
(2018-05-04) 100+ pricing unlocked
(2018-05-04) different plate coating
(2018-05-07) list of orders so far
(2018-05-14) updated plates and split spacebar support
(2018-05-14) if you want to change your order
(2018-05-14) dropped support for one layout
(2018-05-18) new SKB family renderings including SKB65
(2018-05-18) updated timeline and another sample incoming
(2018-05-20) new shipping options
(2018-05-28) about the HHKB version
(2018-05-28) updated order list
(2018-05-29) updated order list
(2018-05-31) update: final sample, invoicing, timeline
(2018-06-12) decision to make: plate material and finish
(2018-06-12) invoicing pushed back jet again
(2018-07-05) why it took so long
(2018-07-18) final sample!
(2018-08-03) updated order list
(2018-08-31) payment status

Renderings

Spoiler:

PlastikSchnittstelle · 10 Apr 2018, 18:19

Finally! Sorry it took so long. Still so much I wanted to get arranged before GB start like better pictures, another build with other switches and typingvideo. But there is always something missing. I'll add all this, step by step.

hansichen · 10 Apr 2018, 18:37

Joined, good luck with the GB!

thokir · 10 Apr 2018, 18:39

in for a wkl skb60, I hope this'll reach 100 orders for a good price

Anakey · 10 Apr 2018, 18:42

Got my order in, Good luck with the GB

hypkx · 10 Apr 2018, 19:33

Good luck with the GB, nice to see the result of the IC.

faxe · 10 Apr 2018, 21:04

does 40+ Units mean 60% & 75% combined or each?

PlastikSchnittstelle · 10 Apr 2018, 21:43

faxe wrote: ↑does 40+ Units mean 60% & 75% combined or each?

combined

Menuhin · 10 Apr 2018, 22:08

Jizzed...!!!

faxe · 10 Apr 2018, 22:15

In for two 75%.

RealityCavesIn · 11 Apr 2018, 07:31

I put in my order yesterday but I never got a verification email, Would you mind checking that my order was registered? I was on mobile at the moment and I just wanna make sure I didn't mess it up.

Franzl · 11 Apr 2018, 08:11

I ordered 2 cases yesterday (60% standard plate a and 75%). Is is possible to get an additional 60% standard plate b, so i get 2 cases and 3 plates at all?

Edit: I also got no confirmation mail.

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 10:01

RealityCavesIn wrote: ↑I put in my order yesterday but I never got a verification email, Would you mind checking that my order was registered? I was on mobile at the moment and I just wanna make sure I didn't mess it up.

ouch, didn't know I could turn on verification emails. just looked it up, would have required an addon. but I got you, don't worry, you're in there.

faxe · 11 Apr 2018, 10:02

Afaik Google Forms does not send a confirmation mail, the author of the form has to include the option and the user has to tick the "Send me my form".

scottc · 11 Apr 2018, 10:13

I'm really happy to see this GB doing so well, it's such a great design and concept and a really really fantastic price for what you get. Especially since it's made in Germany! I'm hoping to pick up one 60% before the end of the buy.

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 10:26

Franzl wrote: ↑I ordered 2 cases yesterday (60% standard plate a and 75%). Is is possible to get an additional 60% standard plate b, so i get 2 cases and 3 plates at all?

Edit: I also got no confirmation mail.

ordering an extra plate would not be a problem, sorry I hadn't anticipated this. I do use one for testing switches, just screwed longer standoffs on. turns out this is pretty useful to me and I hadn't expected the plate alone to be so solid, I guess this is due to the extra surface area it has on the sides. but I have to figure out a price for a standalone/extra plate. when I have I will add it to the form. until then you can just write it as comment in the form. will not be forgotten.

: extra-plate.jpg (1.29 MiB) Viewed 50072 times

btw we are at 36 orders at the moment. so moq won't be a problem

faxe · 11 Apr 2018, 10:27

And as if it was perfect timing, my 75% PCB have just arrived.

Anakey · 11 Apr 2018, 11:37

PlastikSchnittstelle wrote: ↑ btw we are at 36 orders at the moment. so moq won't be a problem

And that is even before announcements on /r/Mechanicalkeyboards and /r/Mechmarket looks like that 100 moq price point might be in reach

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 11:54

Anakey wrote: ↑
PlastikSchnittstelle wrote: ↑ btw we are at 36 orders at the moment. so moq won't be a problem
And that is even before announcements on /r/Mechanicalkeyboards and /r/Mechmarket looks like that 100 moq price point might be in reach

that's pretty optimistic, would be great of course!
I won't post on reddit until I have made a third build and have higher quality pictures.

regarding extra plate price:
extra plate will be ~30euro
you'll get a chance to choose one later/before payment phase. but it would be good to have a clue about it upfront, so if you want one, then please post/let me know here in the discussion.

Shihatsu · 11 Apr 2018, 13:13

I am a little bit dissapointed that the price has increased for about 50% since the first price assumption - for me that is a huge bummer... Now I must consider thoroughly. Missing this beauty and a german GB would be a shame, but o my budget...
How long will the GB be? Will you accept SEPA?
And don't missunderstand me please - I know "made in germany" has it's price, I don't wanna start a discussion about it. It is just that I had quite fewer bucks (Euros, there is) in mind.

Edit:

faxe wrote: ↑And as if it was perfect timing, my 75% PCB have just arrived.

What did you order? Does it support ISO? Beside the case and the plate I have everything prepared (Non-Vintage Blacks from Wodan which feel like Vintage ones, Switch Films from Oblotzky, ISO-DE Dolch from the first ever german GMK-GB and GMK Silencers, also from a german GB), so I need an advice

faxe · 11 Apr 2018, 14:33

I ordered https://kbdfans.cn/collections/pcb/prod ... -75-pcb-75 supports ISO, with JCEX shipping (10$) it arrived in a week to germany. I got the USB C Version

Shihatsu · 11 Apr 2018, 14:53

So exactly the same as Plastikschnittstelle has mentioned before - as this will be my first custom I want to avoid any mistakes, so thank you!

faxe · 11 Apr 2018, 15:05

What did you order? Does it support ISO? Beside the case and the plate I have everything prepared (Non-Vintage Blacks from Wodan which feel like Vintage ones, Switch Films from Oblotzky, ISO-DE Dolch from the first ever german GMK-GB and GMK Silencers, also from a german GB), so I need an advice

I think you are still missing stabilizers

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 15:42

Shihatsu wrote: ↑I am a little bit dissapointed that the price has increased for about 50% since the first price assumption - for me that is a huge bummer... Now I must consider thoroughly. Missing this beauty and a german GB would be a shame, but o my budget...

It might seem that way on first sight, but actually it isn't. Let me explain:

the first price estimate was mentioned in the opening post of the IC, this:
Expected pricing:
20 Units: ~135€
50 Units: ~105€
100 Units: ~92€

These prices are meant for exactly one version x20, x50 and x100.

Over the time I gave updates regarding the pricing, like here and later more precise there (sorry, forgot to post that here as well).

So the last estimate before the GB launch said "between 130 and 160€". This turned out to be pretty exact. Now consider the following: five different versions are made! This means much less then 20 units of a single version (what I estimated in the first IC post) at the MOQ of 40. MOQ 40 will btw only work if I personally add 10 cases that I would have to sell as extras later on. So you have to understand, that just a few of the same part cost much more to manufacture then a lot of the same part. The overall amount does not mean anything in this case because it is accumulated by many different parts.

So if you look at the numbers, then you will realize, that it is actually significantly cheaper then the first estimate. If I really only get 40 orders, then this would be nothing less then a disaster for me, considering the time and effort I put into this and also keeping in mind that I payed for a prototype and samples already.

Lower prices are only possible if every single version gets produced at least 20 times, 50 would be better. That's why I will continue to work on this, with some more renderings, another build, typingdemo and hq picture to advertise it better than just with the phone pics.

So I hope you understand and are still on board for this

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 15:49

Shihatsu wrote: ↑How long will the GB be?

mentioned in the timeline. but maybe I will have to extend the order phase in order to make up for my expenditures for the prototype and the samples. MOQ 40 is not about getting any money from this, it is more about making it happen at all.

Shihatsu wrote: ↑Will you accept SEPA?

wanted to keep it simple for me and do everything via paypal. if more want sepa, then I'll consider it.

Menuhin · 11 Apr 2018, 16:14

PlastikSchnittstelle wrote: ↑
Shihatsu wrote: ↑How long will the GB be?
mentioned in the timeline. but maybe I will have to extend the order phase in order to make up for my expenditures for the prototype and the samples. MOQ 40 is not about getting any money from this, it is more about making it happen at all.

Shihatsu wrote: ↑Will you accept SEPA?
wanted to keep it simple for me and do everything via paypal. if more want sepa, then I'll consider it.

I want to boycott PayPal, and was planning to have a lawsuit confronting them.
PayPal offers zero *seller* protection against scamming buyers, while it is a good way to offer *buyer* protection.

I just trust you in this project, so I am willing to pay using SEPA, without so much protection on my side.
It is also a head-sup for the trustworthy sellers against PayPal. You have to think about why 7bit tries to use SEPA for all European buyers. This may possibly be one big reason.

PlastikSchnittstelle · 11 Apr 2018, 16:19

I'm not a big fan of PayPal myself, just thought it makes everything simpler.
So decision made: I'll offer SEPA as well.

IchiBalzac · 11 Apr 2018, 18:22

What do you think the chances are of a plate option for mounting an XD75RE into one of these? With the hot-swap sockets it is hard to get a good fit in a regular 60% case but in this being top mount, I think it would be perfect! I'd be in for 2 if there was a plate for us ortho users.

Ail · 11 Apr 2018, 18:37

Nice! Can’t wait to build this bad boy. Going to do my head in trying to figure out switches and keycaps.

faxe · 11 Apr 2018, 18:37

+1 for SEPA!

Destination	Option 1	Option 2
Germany	6€ tracking weight up to 2kg insured up to 500€	7€ tracking weight up to 5kg insured up to 500€
Europe (including the UK)	15€ tracking weight up to 2kg insured up to 500€	17€ tracking weight up to 5kg insured up to 500€
International (most countries including USA)	21€ tracking weight up to 2kg insured up to 50€	38€ tracking weight up to 5kg insured up to 500€
International (some countries like Australia and Japan)	21€ tracking weight up to 2kg insured up to 50€	47€ tracking weight up to 5kg insured up to 500€