What was/is the worst keyboard/switch you have ever tried?

[zslane]

What's your favorite keyboard? I understand the noise of buckling spring can be unbearable for some people.

At the moment it is the Topre Realforce RGB with silencing rings and custom SA keycaps.

[Blaise170]

I don't really like the Model M myself but it at least has merits over much lesser switch types like Keytronic foam and foil, Amstrad leaf spring, or Cherry MY.

What makes you hate the Prius so? They certainly aren't attractive but they get great gas mileage, have nice interior space owing to being hatchbacks, and are arguably one of the most reliable cars on the road.

[depletedvespene]

Thanks! Unfortunately I can't use german layout

Its UK ISO with a little bit of imagination

I know

Oh, I guess you'd hate hate HATE my Model M XXK keyboard.

That said, I wonder if Unicomp produces RD keycaps as well — worst case scenario, if they do, is to get a bunch of blanks and a Sharpie.

[ag36]

I think unicomp might do, they're still selling quiet touch.

[depletedvespene]

You're just trying to troll us, right?

Not by intent, no.

………

I don't think of it as trolling because I'm not trying to provoke a fight, or even a response. I'm just letting the community know that not everyone thinks highly of those awful things.

No worries, man. I understand the difference between being a troll [*] and simply holding an unpopular opinion among peers. Heck, you wouldn't believe the icy stares I get whenever it comes up that I hate avocados.


[*] (another one of my specialties )

[Findecanor]

IBM Model M. Hands down.

Model M is definitely the worst sounding board I've ever used (but don't mind the feel too much)

Dental floss mod

... they have a bland gray color scheme that was designed to fit into the mind-numbing aesthetic of corporate offices.

I heard that the colour scheme was a conscious effort by IBM to comply with German (?) workplace standards introduced in the 1970's.
Most of all though, the purpose of the standards was to remove reflections from glaring chrome, to make it easier on the eyes.

[sexzual_hotdog]

mitsumi mini mechanical. without a doubt

[Elrick]

What makes you hate the Prius so?

Designed for Women Only. Very disrespectful to anyone being male and loving cars (late 60's to early 70's) in general.

They certainly aren't attractive but they get great gas mileage, have nice interior space owing to being hatchbacks, and are arguably one of the most reliable cars on the road.

Obvious conclusion from some who hates cars in general. For those that Worship cars, this currently produced junk is extremely Ugly and without any Soul. They're designing cars like Fridges or Washing machines completely disposable.

Seems that now they are hiring morons to create ugly cars because anyone that loved designing cars, left the industry long ago.

[Iggy]

Designed for Women Only. Very disrespectful to anyone being male and loving cars (late 60's to early 70's) in general.

Gosh, what happened to keyboards?

And Prius junk? Trololololol!!!!!!

[Blaise170]

Designed for Women Only. Very disrespectful to anyone being male and loving cars (late 60's to early 70's) in general.

Obvious conclusion from some who hates cars in general. For those that Worship cars, this currently produced junk is extremely Ugly and without any Soul. They're designing cars like Fridges or Washing machines completely disposable.

Seems that now they are hiring morons to create ugly cars because anyone that loved designing cars, left the industry long ago.

I'm certainly no car hater - in fact I'm actually quite enthusiastic about cars and I don't drive a Prius. You can argue whether it's ugly and soulless but certainly it isn't junk - it's created for those who want to get from point A to point B and do so cheaply, safely, and reliably. There are still plenty of cars that one can get if you are an enthusiast, but generally speaking you are going to be trading at least one of the above (cheap, safe, reliable) for the better comfort, power, handling, etc. of enthusiast cars.

[Bass]

As a hobby, cars and keyboards have several things in common. You have people who scoff at the idea of spending more than $50 on a keyboard that don't mind using rubber domes and then there's us. Try to imagine telling someone with little interest in the hobby to watch Chyros's videos and they'll most likely get overwhelmed by his thorough analysis on build quality, force curves, and keycap material / thickness. We all love that stuff, but there are many others who do not care. They don't necessarily see how any of these things translate to being more productive at work or winning more often in games.

I'd say cars are hardly different in this regard other than the prices being two orders of magnitude higher. There's the people who see driving as a necessary evil and just want to get from point A to point B, and then there are those who actually enjoy the act of accelerating from 0 to 60 as fast as possible. For what it's worth I am one of those people who used to own a Prius for several years. Certainly not a very "fun" car to drive, (though I can't really think of anything that would be fun to drive in SoCal traffic) but it proved to be very reliable (never needed any maintenance other than routine stuff like oil changes and tire rotations) and fuel efficient (very important with gas prices being what they are over here). For many people, you can't ask for much else though I will admit I'd say it does mean that I have no soul

Back on the subject of this thread, it's hard for me to quantify since I have tried switches in so many old dirty keyboards now which bind terribly and easily get stuck. If we are just talking about modern stuff I'd say Apple's Butterfly Switch, hands down. I can't think of any other switch in mint condition that I had to use extensively which not only felt horrible but was actually difficult to accurately type on.

[Noobmaen]

mitsumi mini mechanical. without a doubt

I second this. Feel is ok but still quite clunky if pressed dead center, but the binding on offcenter is unlike anything else I have ever tried

[ruskie]

Im gonna do this in three parts:

Laptop: Apple Butterfly. Holy shit, this is like typing on a table. No feedback, doesnt even feel like a switch.

Non-mechanical: Keytronic tactile foam and foil: Some of the shittiest rubber I have ever felt. Doesnt break cleanly, very mushy, and VERY scratchy. Their linears are actually quite good, especially the vintage ones.

Mechanical: Has to be either Romer-G or Mitsumi Miniature Mechanical. Romer Gs dont even feel mechanical. Very rough, mushy, and there is little to no bump. Mitsumi miniature mechanical actually dont feel awful when pressed properly, but if it is anything but centered, the keyfeel dies immediately. Scratchy, binds like a mother, and cant return properly.

[vometia]

What makes you hate the Prius so?

Designed for Women Only. Very disrespectful to anyone being male and loving cars (late 60's to early 70's) in general.

Huh. Can't say I'm a fan myself but I think that's perhaps more to do with a certain stereotype of the sort of people who drive them: I'm fairly ambivalent about the car itself. For me the worst sin is that like so many modern cars they so often seem to come in that ultra-bland "fog grey" colour, something I consider to be a real blight and can make any car dull and uninspiring.

Er anyway, regarding the Model M and the "worst", I can see why some people may not be a fan but I'm always cautious about distinguishing between objectively bad and disliked: in my case I could never bring myself to love the Cherry MX switches but I would hesitate to describe them as "bad", just not my cup of tea.

In terms of something that is objectively bad, I'd go for any flat membrane type switch e.g. the Sinclair ZX81 and which still blights modern household appliances, though I guess that sort of thing barely counts as a keyboard. In terms of actual proper mechanical things, probably some of the Philips keyboards from the late '80s/early '90s. I dunno what they put in them, but they had a nasty mushy feel and unless the keys were pressed exactly on the vertical you'd feel them binding and juddering. Ugh, horrible. I dare say it wasn't uncommon with various mechanical keyboards of the era, I'm just more familiar with Philips as I worked there at the time. They're bad enough that even some rubber dome (e.g. DEC) keyboards felt a lot better.

[webwit]

If we are just talking about modern stuff I'd say Apple's Butterfly Switch, hands down. I can't think of any other switch in mint condition that I had to use extensively which not only felt horrible but was actually difficult to accurately type on.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/2 ... ment_free/

[Chyros]

If we are just talking about modern stuff I'd say Apple's Butterfly Switch, hands down. I can't think of any other switch in mint condition that I had to use extensively which not only felt horrible but was actually difficult to accurately type on.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/2 ... ment_free/

LOL! XD

[Bass]

Nice article, but the cynic in me says that Apple won't really change their ways and continue to stick with the butterfly switch in their next generation of laptops. I am not an apple fan but I am pretty much forced to use a Macbook Pro at work, and we are required to upgrade our computers every three years. My last upgrade happened to be in 2016 right before the newer models were released with those horrible butterfly switch keyboards and thus barely avoided having to use them. However I did get a bit of experience with them when I had to help a colleague install some software and I'd say my typing accuracy was about on par with the author of that article. It might be time for me to start embracing 60% keyboards so I am not stuck with them the next time I have to go on a business trip.

[Blaise170]

I still don't understand all the hate that the butterfly switches get. I am by no means a fan of Apple, but they are far better than most of the laptop keyboards out there. Reliability aside, I've had no issue with typing on it.

[Bass]

I still don't understand all the hate that the butterfly switches get. I am by no means a fan of Apple, but they are far better than most of the laptop keyboards out there. Reliability aside, I've had no issue with typing on it.

Admittedly I have not tried a lot of other laptop or low profile keyboards so perhaps you are right in that there is even worse stuff out there, but the difference is very apparent between the few others I have tried. In this case, an older generation Macbook Pro which I currently use (which I don't think is particularly great but still feels 10x better) and a Thinkpad T400 (one of the best scissor switch implementations out there). For me the key travel feels much too short even compared to other low profile keyboards, it almost feels like I am typing directly on a table. I am sure the poor reliability is a major part of it too (you can find lots of angry rants about this subject from Apple repair shops on youtube).

[davkol]

I think mainstream modern switches are fine, with some exceptions where quality control has failed, but…

This might be a good place to dump my recent experience: Keychron's low-profile (optical) brown switches are weird.

I haven't researched who makes these, as Keychron collaborates with Gateron a lot, but some of their switches are self-branded, including the low-profile optical product line. The linear and clicky models are basically fine (although a bit loud) and behave as expected from my very limited experience. I haven't had a chance to try the new banana/mint ones that are supposed to have a bump at the top of the keystroke. The plain "tactile" browns are funny though…

I was expecting something like Cherry ML which feels like a compressed MX Brown-Clear hybrid. Probably a bit more tactile with easier bottoming out. Low-profile mechanical-contact Gateron Brown is like that, and quite bad at it (not very smooth, rattle on key release).

However, Keychron surprised me: it's clicky. If I bought a keyboard with them myself, I would be furious. Not as sharply as the deliberately clicky models, but clicky nevertheless. When trying out a full keyboard, I thought the keys were strangely almost linear on the downstroke and then lightly clicked on the upstroke. Later I got to toy with a single switch. I think what happened there was the tactile leaf bouncing around. It reminded me of the Kailh's issue with lube wearing off tactile stems in their MX-like switches. Looking at some reviews, it seems the switches aren't lubed from factory…? And they used a way too strong leaf, I suppose.

[Findecanor]

Click on upstroke only? That's bad.

After 2018, the worst key switch I've tried, I don't know if it was a linear RAFI or Siemens STB or something similar, which had a scratchiness that felt like touching something electrified when you pressed it.

[ArtyomTheMetroHopper]

First ever vintage keyboard I ever bought was the Datalux Spacesaver: wiki/Datalux_SpaceSaver


I got it for £50 NOS from eBay on the basis that I really liked the layout it had. I found out through chyrosan22 how bad these boards were but did not pay too much attention. I used a clicky membrane for 5 years so it cant get much worse than that. But as the new kid on the block to the keyboard enthusiast scene I could never had been more naïve in my life.

When people say that the Datalux is a bad keyboard they are not being hyperbole or holding it to high standards that enthusiasts compare high end keyboards to. It was a really unpleasant experience, to the point that I disassembled the board and tried to jerry rig cherry switches in the place of the horrific MEI switches.

It didn't work, and what was probably for the best I scrapped the keyboard. Making sure one less of these things existed on the planet and one less potential victim to get suckered in with "Ooooo, what an interesting layout gimmick!". I still have the shell and keycaps which I hope to reuse at some point, but it will probably be awhile before I get round to try and redeem them for something far better quality.

The Datalux Spacesaver uses MEI switches as I previously mentioned in passing:wiki/MEI_T-15_series

These switches are the only one I know of that actually has a shelf life. Does not matter how long or how much you use them, the rubber "spring" will degrade overtime until it loses all its elasticity and falls apart. It is also the only switch I know of that actually improves in performance by removing its springs. Taking out one of the 2 rubber bands makes it less heavy and far more responsive to use. But even then it still feels like pressing down an extremely heavy rubber dome.

I have also accidently fell into a another pothole recently called the Model 970:

s-l1600 (6).jpg (191.29 KiB) Viewed 9242 times

I bought it on the pretense of it being vintage cherry linear, but as it turns out its actually uses Futaba MR-6C switches:wiki/Futaba_MR-6C_series

This unfortunately means this beautiful keyboard has switches that will most likely be operating on borrowed time. The reason for this is that the switches have a habit of developing a squeak as they age. And while its a rather functional switch, you will find that anyone who has ever used a BBC Micro computer will tell you profusely how the sound of the computer's keyboard will drive you crazy. As it happens, I fall under that group of people and, if the BBC micro was anything to go by, I will likely be not using it as a daily driver anytime soon.

[vometia]

First ever vintage keyboard I ever bought was the Datalux Spacesaver: wiki/Datalux_SpaceSaver
...

I got it for £50 NOS from eBay on the basis that I really liked the layout it had. I found out through chyrosan22 how bad these boards were but did not pay too much attention. [snippity]

I remember them! We had some when I worked in London; "we" as in BigCorp I worked at back in the '90s had a few lying around. As in not actually being used; some were in ops rooms, generally unplugged with something generic in its place at a jaunty angle; others in build areas. None on anybody's desk.

Every now and then I'd find one, think "that looks cute!" and give it a try. And within minutes I'd put it back where I found it (though I think I may have swiped one or two for further occurrences of "now and then" and may still have at least one in the garage). I never really thought any more about it as this was the same time as I discovered the Model M about which I've already waffled enough, but suffice to say when I'd just fallen in love with an M I wasn't interested in anything else. So I never took much notice of how bad this little dude was. I'm not sure whether that really counts as "a missed opportunity".

[Muirium]

The cuteness factor is the cheese in the mousetrap! I almost bought one from Inosenz, till I saw that Chyros vid. Screech!!

[guidemetothelight]

wiki/Ericsson_RMD_973_series

This or a few really dirty Dampened Creams i had in an AEK II .
Scratchy.
Bindy.
Awful.

Both of them

[JCMax]

Cherry MX Blue.

The feel is so slow and scratchy. Not to mention the tactility. Compared to some of the other clones, I can just feel my heart breaking on the inside with disappointment when I press just one key.

I would have thrown Cherry MX Browns in the there. They could pass for a linear switch with how puny the tactility is. Although, If I type on them with the same expectations as a linear switch rather than a tactile, they are...ok. I tried one board that had them and they didn't feel too bad for what they were.

TBH, the Cherry MX Borwns feel so similar to some of the clones, I can't feel too much of a difference.

[Bjerrk]

You have never tried truly awful switches if you think MX Blue or Brown are anywhere near the bottom

[Muirium]

Cherry MY:

[Findecanor]

Cherry MX Blue.

The feel is so slow and scratchy. Not to mention the tactility. Compared to some of the other clones, I can just feel my heart breaking on the inside with disappointment when I press just one key.

Vintage MX blues are not as bad. Maybe newer ones can be broken in to become smoother.

[paperWasp]

It's always fun to see all that Cherry MX hate, LOL.
34 reviews, 5.0 stars, MX Brown...

Dell rubber domes in early 2000's were infamous for 'unpressable' keys, except when pressed directly from above (maybe +/- 10 deg). Missing *lmost *ll letters ty*ed by *inikies.
Probably the worst keyboards I've ever tried.

Some keyboards used to lie in their tactile response, not doing anything unless you applied extra force beyond the tactile one. In 2002? I had to return a new Keytronic doing that.