GeekHack Refugee Camp?

[Bass]

The problem isn't that people don't acknowledge DT, it's that people have completely incorrect perceptions about the site. Any time I mention DT on GH, I almost always get "But DT is only vintage stuff" or "It's just cranky Europeans" or "I hate how slow the content is".

I actually went and searched for comments about DT on a keyboard discord server last night and this is pretty much what I saw... almost to a tee. And a few other things as well like (paraphrasing here) "I only go there when I need info about Alps stuff" or "It's too intimidating because everyone there has a keyboard PhD".

I don't think that last point is necessarily a bad thing if you come here with an open mind and learn to take things in stride. I have been into "mechanical keyboards" per se and a GH user before DT was founded, but I have probably learned much more about keyboards just from being here for the past few months.

[JP!]

Everyone I talk to at meetups knows of or goes to DT because of the wiki but that demographic was heavily into customs or artisans.

[ideus]

I like DT better than GH. However, DT members tend to be cold with newcomers; while, GH is more friendly with newbies. Also, the low speed at DT makes it less personal. I think that the PhD comment relates more with how unfriendly the community is to new members.

[Sup]

Man man everyone making weird ass forum's Discourse is disgusting to use on desktop. Oh well i still got my own geekhack. Very good name to Geekhack.eu . To be serious i doubt people are gonna switch from platform since Massdrop stated they aren't gonna change anything. If they do some drastic changes then everything will collapse and then people will migrate.

[kbdfr]

I really don't know how DT became the "cranky Euro-site" but it's really not so bad. Sure there are a few grouches (looking at you kbdfr ) but once you get past the grouchy exterior, people are really quite nice and knowledgeable here.
.

I like the slight grouchy undertones. Makes me feel at home .

You're welcome. Both of you

Spoiler:

After all, you've been here quite a while

[…] DT members tend to be cold with newcomers […] […] I think that the PhD comment relates more with how unfriendly the community is to new members.

I think newcomers shoud be treated the way they themselves behave, so "Welcome" when a newcomer starts with "Hello", but (at best) no answer when their first post is a question starting with "So I…".
Let them be friendly in the first place.

[JBert]

Spoiler:

After all, you've been here quite a while

[…] DT members tend to be cold with newcomers […] […] I think that the PhD comment relates more with how unfriendly the community is to new members.

I think newcomers shoud be treated the way they themselves behave, so "Welcome" when a newcomer starts with "Hello", but (at best) no answer when their first post is a question starting with "So I…".
Let them be friendly in the first place.

This reflects your age, I think. While letters and emails are a personal, one-to-one medium, Internet forums are many-to-many medium and such greetings always stick out like a sore thumb to me.

If you want greetings then maybe we should look at the GH "New Members" board where it is more common to greet because it's one topic per user, and in this case personal again.

[vivalarevolución]

Wtf, I take it easy for a month watching the World Cup and this happens.

[vivalarevolución]

The problem isn't that people don't acknowledge DT, it's that people have completely incorrect perceptions about the site. Any time I mention DT on GH, I almost always get "But DT is only vintage stuff" or "It's just cranky Europeans" or "I hate how slow the content is".

I actually went and searched for comments about DT on a keyboard discord server last night and this is pretty much what I saw... almost to a tee. And a few other things as well like (paraphrasing here) "I only go there when I need info about Alps stuff" or "It's too intimidating because everyone there has a keyboard PhD".

I don't think that last point is necessarily a bad thing if you come here with an open mind and learn to take things in stride. I have been into "mechanical keyboards" per se and a GH user before DT was founded, but I have probably learned much more about keyboards just from being here for the past few months.

It's better to keep i this way than have the site flooded by nonsense.

[vivalarevolución]

don't worry GHers, we won't seperate you from your keyboards upon coming here

Lol, good one, this made me laugh.

[LeslieAnn]

I really don't know how DT became the "cranky Euro-site" but it's really not so bad.

"Get off my Alps you darn kids!"
While it has gotten better (been lurking for a long time), you guys very much give off an old men and and their vintage toys impression to outsiders.

Go look at the first page in the keyboard section of the forum and count how many threads are about modern keyboards or better yet just look through this thread at the attitudes towards newer keyboards/keyboard tech and think how it looks to some kid looking for their first mechanical or something new and high end. GH also has this problem to an extent as well (usually towards RGB) but not like this place does.

[Muirium]

Problem?

[fohat]

and think how it looks to some kid looking for their first mechanical

Must agree with Mu. Kids need to know that there is a big bad beautiful world out there.

[Muirium]

They come here and ask fairly often anyway. I’d say we’re cantankerous yet friendly. You’re much less likely to be buried under a pile of memes for just asking an honest question in this neighbourhood than most of the internet.

Not, I suspect, that we’re being read in this case. I assume there’s an appropriate drive by shooting gif for the purpose…

[LeslieAnn]

Must agree with Mu. Kids need to know that there is a big bad beautiful world out there.

The internet doesn't work that way.
Most people new to this hobby are not looking for Alps or buckling springs, they don't even know those exist and without knowing those terms they can't search for them, which means they can't even find this place.

Even if they find this place using "mechanical keyboard" they come from a world of rgb, mx switches and unicorn vomit because that is what's in stores and online for sale, it;s all they know. You have to start somewhere and that somewhere is usually with whatever is currently on store shelves, that is true with almost anything, cars, coins, stamps, glassware, etc. You come here and you see beige vintage stuff everywhere, the threads, the header, the news section, keyboard section, classifieds... Whether on purpose or not, this place has become the place for vintage stuff and you haven't exactly worked to avoid that impression and any time you deal with something older it's going to come off like it does, a bunch of guys who know way more than you do and making it hard to get started, that part is unavoidable.

You say there is new stuff here people just don't want to look, well how do you think some kid who just bought that new Das he saved up for going to feel if he buys it and then comes here and sees that thread about it? Not only will that person see that, but that is pretty much the only modern keyboard on the entire first page of the keyboard section. They see nothing they recognize except one thread trashing the very thing they scrimped and saved for. I'm not saying take it down or that the thread is entirely wrong, I'm saying the only thing they see is it being trashed surrounded by a bunch of threads discussing old vintage boards, something that person has no interest in at that time, especially when you just trashed what he bought. What are the chances they stick around?

So long as you guys remain hostile towards newer people and keyboards, that perception will remain. Just look through this thread, they may be jokes, but you know as well as I do, it's not entirely untrue about how you guys feel about some of this stuff and it shows to potential new members, many of whom have come this way after learning of older stuff from sites like GH. They get here and all they see is hate towards newer stuff, the things they like and the things they just bought.

You guys can deny it all you want, but I can say with certainty that it is an issue because it's why I avoided this place for so long. If I did it, so will others.

[chuckdee]

I don't think there is any hostility, just a lack of interest. I mean matt3o is here and previews a lot of things to do with modern keyboards. Others were here also, and I built my first custom here. It's a matter of perception, not reality. Yes, this place isn't as memetastic as the others, but I find that a feature. I'm not even really into vintage boards and find a lot of food for my consumption of the hobby here.

[LeslieAnn]

I don't think there is any hostility, just a lack of interest.

This whole thread is built around the idea of keeping people out not asking how you should welcome them.

Like Webwit, I didn't expect a big exodus then or now anyhow but letting everyone here sh*t all over GH users and the things they are into (joking or not) at a time you could have been growing and recruiting is certainly not the way to bring them over.

[kbdfr]

It's the members who shape a forum.
In the 7+ years (!) of my DT membership, a huge lot has changed here, and it's still happening on a permanent basis.
DT is not what it used to be any more, this is normal and certainly nothing to complain about.
So whoever appears here with any questions or insights is welcome to contribute to re-shaping DT as they like.

Spoiler:

Well, of course, I still will rebuke people just wanting to advertise their eBay sales

[Muirium]

Yup. Every community has its culture.

This particular thread pre-dates even me. (Some ancient, prolonged GH downtime event?) So its title comes across as strange and provocative. I’ve no hate for GH. I just feel at home here. I like our focus and our culture. I believe that’s the predominant feeling among DT’s regulars. It’s just not our thing.

Anyway, I wouldn’t be against more threads here on current releases. There’s a keyboard news section that could use more activity from interested users. I like to hear about new Topre stuff as much as the next HHKB and Realforce lover. And being heavily into iOS these days, Bluetooth is ever relevant to me. Vintage restoration is just part of what we’re about. A prized part, for sure, but not all of it.

[Blaise170]

I can push back on almost every contrary point that has been made. I'm only 24 so if I give off an "old man vibe" then that must be related to the fact that I don't typically find memes funny, especially keyboard related memes. I'm a member of the three major English communities too, every place has its own culture and DT, GH, and Reddit are no different.

[fohat]

Every community has its culture.

And I might add that the components of the very name itself have implicit connotations.

"Desk" implies that something rather more serious and work-related might be going on there, and "thority" sounds like it might be a repository of information that came from an environment of research and experimentation.

"Geekhack" sounds like cowboys and the wild west, so I can see how that could be a magnet for newbies.

I have never understood what reddit is about so I can't speak on that subject.

But, in any case, to Leslieann's point, I agree that there is a place for dedicated sections or threads in these forums catering directly to gamers, because gaming itself has been a huge driving force across the industry ever since personal computers became available.

[chuckdee]

I don't think there is any hostility, just a lack of interest.

This whole thread is built around the idea of keeping people out not asking how you should welcome them.

Like Webwit, I didn't expect a big exodus then or now anyhow but letting everyone here sh*t all over GH users and the things they are into (joking or not) at a time you could have been growing and recruiting is certainly not the way to bring them over.

That first post was created in jest over 2 years ago. The subsequent posts about tp were also made in jest referring to the time that he migrated over here when he was temp banned fro GH. Not sure about the part on Microsoft Windows - but he is pretty annoying. There was nothing ragging on GH in general- just the process by which it was sold, which by any measure was pretty piss-poor, no matter the final outcome. I stick by what I said; I haven't seen any outright hostility over GH as a whole- artisans sure, even though I personally don't agree with that view. I still think that it is perception and preconceived notions based on incomplete information.

[JP!]

Must agree with Mu. Kids need to know that there is a big bad beautiful world out there.

The internet doesn't work that way.
Most people new to this hobby are not looking for Alps or buckling springs, they don't even know those exist and without knowing those terms they can't search for them, which means they can't even find this place.

Even if they find this place using "mechanical keyboard" they come from a world of rgb, mx switches and unicorn vomit because that is what's in stores and online for sale, it;s all they know. You have to start somewhere and that somewhere is usually with whatever is currently on store shelves, that is true with almost anything, cars, coins, stamps, glassware, etc. You come here and you see beige vintage stuff everywhere, the threads, the header, the news section, keyboard section, classifieds... Whether on purpose or not, this place has become the place for vintage stuff and you haven't exactly worked to avoid that impression and any time you deal with something older it's going to come off like it does, a bunch of guys who know way more than you do and making it hard to get started, that part is unavoidable.

You say there is new stuff here people just don't want to look, well how do you think some kid who just bought that new Das he saved up for going to feel if he buys it and then comes here and sees that thread about it? Not only will that person see that, but that is pretty much the only modern keyboard on the entire first page of the keyboard section. They see nothing they recognize except one thread trashing the very thing they scrimped and saved for. I'm not saying take it down or that the thread is entirely wrong, I'm saying the only thing they see is it being trashed surrounded by a bunch of threads discussing old vintage boards, something that person has no interest in at that time, especially when you just trashed what he bought. What are the chances they stick around?

So long as you guys remain hostile towards newer people and keyboards, that perception will remain. Just look through this thread, they may be jokes, but you know as well as I do, it's not entirely untrue about how you guys feel about some of this stuff and it shows to potential new members, many of whom have come this way after learning of older stuff from sites like GH. They get here and all they see is hate towards newer stuff, the things they like and the things they just bought.

You guys can deny it all you want, but I can say with certainty that it is an issue because it's why I avoided this place for so long. If I did it, so will others.

Sure, many newcomers to this hobby will not necessarily know all the terms in the vintage world. The same definitely applies with the modern stuff as well. Between all of the different keyboard manufacturers, layouts, form factors, custom modified boutique switches, custom builds, group buys, artisans, custom key sets, etc the hobby is seriously daunting and ever evolving. I've been to a few keyboard meetups and I became lost so many times in numerous conversations trying to follow all of the jargon but would do my best to ask questions to try and get up to speed.

People get into their hobbies for many different reasons though. For some it is finding that first vintage keyboard at a thrift shop or having something passed down, for others it is saving up for that first new mechanical keyboard. I call this keyboard destiny.

I feel my experiences here have been different than yours in some respects although I have only been participating in the keyboard forums and communities a short while compared with many others here. For example my interests are skewed to the vintage side but I also have interest in trying modern keyboards as well. I even have my first modern custom, vintage inspired of course. I've even posted modern keyboards and pictures from local meetups without any negativity. I feel though even if more new members shared their modern keyboards here it really wouldn't matter as we are not relevant in that regard and never will be to the community at large. I don't feel as though we should force it either, we can just be who we are, of course though we should be open to other perspectives and interests. To many this community has a certain reputation of being vintage only which has more limited appeal, yet we are still respected for the quality of the content and information.

Basically vintage mechs and old things are dead detritus. If most hobbyists were focused on the old stuff there would be no new growth and the hobby would be kind of lame, yet it is good that old things can bring people together under similar interests. Not only that we can rediscover the past and take inspiration to improve upon and create new things. To me it is amazing to see older technology that was not only ahead of it's time but is in some respects better than what is produced today or is now simply unavailable. There is the old and there is the new. The Yin and the Yang. To me Deskthority is just another side of the same coin.

[Anakey]

I just wanted to say thankyou to JP! for making the above post, I know that i have been much a lurker rather then putting input in every thread but i have been reading a lot of the threads and the large amount of info present on the forums. I think i share having a foot in both the vintage and modern camps. Whilst i appreciate the beauty and extravagance of the vintage boards i also enjoy seeing the new innovations that are coming in through the modern boards. I did my first custom build a handwired ortholinear alps board earlier this year. I didn't post it on here mainly because it seemed most would rather post on someones new beamspring thread rather then my build however i now realise that that is only going to compound the problem so my next builds that i do i will be posting and trying to get myself known a bit more. I did post my Rafi board a few months back but it didn't get that muuch interest i guess it is out of the safe territory of beamspring model F and cherry. Like JP! I also have gone to meetups and i would encorage everyone to go to them if it is possible, the last few that i have been to my vintage boards have been as popular as everyone elses and a lot of the more modern guys are starting to get into vintage territory with some buying vintage boards, others wanting to try ALPS and buckling springs. They are wanting to learn the knowlege that is on here and a meetup is a way that both you and them can learn new things and most important it is a place to try things for themselves given so much of this hobby is about the feel of the keyboard itself.