Do BOX switches stretch PBT and break ABS keycaps?

[ag36]

And model M soft touch(damped buckling spring)

[Elrick]

No snap sound either when you put them on, they don't even struggle to go onto the switch either, yet I have a fantastic set now ruined to these sh*t :/

That's the insidiousness of this Kailh lazy-debacle, just like another failed Liberal promise made here in Convict Country.

Full of promise and hope until you get kicked in the gonads severely (usual outcome when dealing with them).

Have instead resorted to re-gluing the GMK set with super glue and baking soda to reattach those broken stems. Have one Key-cap in two pieces which was a pain to reattach but adding the baking soda helped to widen the stem a tiny bit.

It took me 6 hours at home dealing with the kids and their problems before I finished fixing 5 key-caps. Needed to place them in a heated box due to our current Winter weather we're experiencing (pain for glue drying).

Looks ugly but no one can see the re-attached stems hence it seems to work alright. Down side is some of the keys have moved slightly from their original positions .

Yes Kailh you dirty piece of filth, I should send you the GMK bill for another key-set that won't be attached to any of your BOX switches ever again .

[Geroximo]

I can confirm the problem. Cracked stems on my GMK HADapter set which was mounted on Kailh BOX blacks.

This is horrendous. I don't even want to know how much damage has been done by this. All the expensive custom boards and expensive GMK sets rendered useless. This is absolutly insane.

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

[ag36]

Likely Kailh's main business are mostly non high-end oem orders and custom keyboards only has a tiny margin in it.

It seems not all batch of the box switches destroys keycaps, my OG cherry and leopold double shot has survived. Let's worry about the incoming chaos in the second hand keycaps market.

[Wintermute1974]

This is horrendous. I don't even want to know how much damage has been done by this. All the expensive custom boards and expensive GMK sets rendered useless. This is absolutly insane.

True, but how much enjoyment did you get from typing on your BOX switches before you learned of this problem?
Assuming they did not break stems, would you have recommended BOX switches in the past?

[ag36]

This is horrendous. I don't even want to know how much damage has been done by this. All the expensive custom boards and expensive GMK sets rendered useless. This is absolutly insane.

True, but how much enjoyment did you get from typing on your BOX switches before you learned of this problem?
Assuming they did not break stems, would you have recommended BOX switches in the past?

Good point, I've ordered some pbt dsa and epbt sets for future box switch builds because I like the feel of it.

[abrahamstechnology]

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

Then who should I buy from? The only modern switch as good as BOX Navy as far as I know of are buckling springs.

[Wodan]

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

Then who should I buy from? The only modern switch as good as BOX Navy as far as I know of are buckling springs.

Legendary quote

[Bass]

Regardless of how one feels about BOX switches, I think more people should be disappointed in Kailh's response to the situation. I don't know if I have interpreted it correctly, but it seems like they are essentially denying culpability for all monetary losses people have incurred from damaged keycaps because their switches were still within spec and it's therefore the customer's responsibility to know better. But when the switches are aggressively marketed as being MX compatible, I think it's understandable for everyone who buys them to just assume that their MX keycaps will fit without issue. I do like the feel of their BOX switches, but it's a bad precedent when the community essentially gives them a free pass, since it means the consumer will have to be content with having almost no power when another situation like this comes up again. Only time will tell, but judging by the fact that many people are still buying BOX switches with the old stems, I suspect that this incident will hardly effect the sales of their switches in the slightest.

[Geroximo]

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

Then who should I buy from? The only modern switch as good as BOX Navy as far as I know of are buckling springs.

These switches literally break your keycaps ... anything is better than this.

[ag36]

The thing is, kailh started as low-end cheap switch for low-end keyboards and had no CS with bad QC back then because they were just the type of company has no original product and almost nothing to lose because no matter what they do they can just change their name and sell their product, QC is fine now but I doubt would keilh's attitude ever improve. Cherry is part of ZF has supplied all kinds of customers, defence industry, medical, aerospace. Name it and you have it, reputation has more weight on cherry.

[davkol]

#dta18 ping award nomination anyone?

[Wodan]

#dta18 ping award nomination anyone?

They broke a HADapter kit. Do we even need a vote???

[ag36]

What is #dta18 ?

[abrahamstechnology]

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

Then who should I buy from? The only modern switch as good as BOX Navy as far as I know of are buckling springs.

These switches literally break your keycaps ... anything is better than this.

It shouldn't be too hard to ream out the stems with a metal keycap, or something. In the meantime Kailh will obviously make new molds, Kailh and Mike already agreed to that.

[ag36]

But still bigger than cherry's spec, perhaps not new molds but adjustments on existing tooling. Should be safer but not absolute safe.

[codemonkeymike]

What is #dta18 ?

results-f110/the-ping-award-t17873.html

[codemonkeymike]

Any report on XDA with Jade? I just soldered a full set into an ergodox in anticipation of getting some XDA caps in for my dox.

[ag36]

What is #dta18 ?

results-f110/the-ping-award-t17873.html

Thanks! Hahaha, I've just pre-ordered triumph adler set from mykeyboard.eu.

[SwissArmyTin]

Kailh needs to go out of business for this. Please don't buy from them anymore, I for sure won't.

Then who should I buy from? The only modern switch as good as BOX Navy as far as I know of are buckling springs.

These switches literally break your keycaps ... anything is better than this.

Seems to only be certain, more expensive keycaps. Cheaper caps and older caps seem to be immune...funny thing, that.

[chuckdee]

These switches literally break your keycaps ... anything is better than this.

Seems to only be certain, more expensive keycaps. Cheaper caps and older caps seem to be immune...funny thing, that.

Not true. I've seen some that say that they put tao-hao keycaps on, and they still break.

[Elrick]

Not true. I've seen some that say that they put tao-hao keycaps on, and they still break.

Agreed, Tai Haos won't save you when you need key-caps that won't EXPLODE when fitted on these bastardized BOXes.

Although I bought some cheapo 'Yum-Cha' key-caps from somewhere, either off Gmarket or Flebay some time ago and they actually fit perfectly upon my Jades and Navy's.

There is no cracking and they seem very easy to install and remove but they have this strange cross sectional fitting and not the standard circle with the cross section inside it (ALL Cherry key-caps come with that style of stem fitting).

The key-caps themselves are Pig-Ugly like myself but they get the work done, if you still crave the heavy BOX click feeling .

[q11q11]

Cheaper caps and older caps seem to be immune...funny thing, that.

Cheaps are from cheap flexible plastic, they adapts.
Old ones are just old-school-robustness, they suppress BOX stems, not visa-vesra.

[last-axiom-hero]

Decoupling the click/tactility from the actuation is just a stupid and cheap way of "fixing" the restrictions of the original MX design click and bump! With the manufacturing tolerances of Kaihl, I have been getting non-actuation clicks out of my Hakko True switches easily. Coupled with these gorilla weight springs, this even becomes an issue while typing on it. You sacrifice the actual purpose a click has (signal actuation) for a better perception of the click. That's just design over functionality! Why not add a small solenoid to the PCB and let that click for you - that's a much more honest solution and will actually click on actuation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no modern switches, that do have coupled their actuation with their tactile Event directly. The Model M's have been the last of that kind. If you're really trying, you can do the same Non-Tactile-Event-Actuation with about any Switch, just the margins are way smaller, so small you don't feel then in normal use.

...and remain the choice for 30€ waterproof mechanical keyboards that are made for people who wash their monster energy drink and WOW boss battle ejaculate off the boards on a weekly basis.

Making things more durable is always a good idea, when you're not compromising other characteristics. Just have a look at Alps, Switches shouldn't have a steady decay in their functionality. The Subset of people who work in an tiled laboratory with air filtration is smaller than people who type away in their carpeted bedroom. Also being clumsy shouldn't force you to buy a new Keyboard, though I would think that the current resistance of Cherry-Switches is alright. If Boxes are more durable, only time will tell and any judgement is premature.

[voight-kampff]

I must say, this keycap stem breaking issue is annoying. However one must not forget that cherry MX stems was not designed to often change keycap sets.

What kind of stem would be the stem designed for changing keycaps?
Maybe somewhat robuster female stem.

Sent from my MIX using Tapatalk

[Wodan]

The classic MX based design with a tactile bump in the slider effectively couples tactility and actuation.

This coupling has its limits though and people who expect a cripy click from their tactile switches will always be disapointed.

[kekstee]

I must say, this keycap stem breaking issue is annoying. However one must not forget that cherry MX stems was not designed to often change keycap sets.

Doesn't change the fact that the design isn't at fault if you cram it onto out of spec shit switches

[abrahamstechnology]

They are now re-tooled!

[ag36]

Already? As soon as as kbdfans have it I'll get some.

[Techno Trousers]

Source?