Datahand

[off]

The sensors are the same as seen in ball mice from the nineties... Optical transmitter/receiver at both sides of the wheel, the signal passes between the wheel's edges when it rotates

The way still a lot of mice work w.r.t. the scrollwheel (having an encoderwheel inside), even today.

I want to dye mine as well even though it is white since I never take it out of the box.

Somehow I think that painting it and putting it back in the box is not all that fulfilling..

GL cleaning and fingers crossed everything still works smoothly.

Everything is currently in a bucket with about 20 dental tabs.

About that, don't overdo it. There don't appear to be engraved characters on the buttons so the damage should probably be light anyhow, but here I've damaged the lettering on my at101's caps quite noticably (and the mission is not over yet, still unbelievably yellow) just by using dental tabs and/or oxy-action, and a lot of time.
Incidentally, I've noticed you haven't yet filled in your adress and working hours; didn't you read the sticky?

[Input Nirvana]

I want to dye mine as well even though it is white since I never take it out of the box.

Somehow I think that painting it and putting it back in the box is not all that fulfilling..

Yes, but it's one of the 3 things I have left to do on my keyboarding quest.
1-color boring white plastic successfully
2-upgrade to exact replacement blank PBT key caps on Kinesis Advantage
3-get everyone making Kinesis custom controllers together and learn something (for a generic programmable controller for an Alphagrip or Datahand).

So I figure I'll dye the plastic on my Datahand. If your'e gonna do it, go all the way! Plus if done right, it could be pretty awesome. Or maybe not

>> I'm almost at the end of my keyboarding quest after 3 years. It started out trying to see if I could cut a Kinesis Advantage in half, and the answer is yes. So 3 more things on my list above and I'll retire from the forums. <<

Back on topic:
Icarium-
My buddy on GH "Gator456" did a couple major Datahand improvements. One was adding a trackpoint from an IBM KPD8923, and the other was some sophisticated work using Teensy. Look up on GH, or on my "Everything Kinesis Advantage wiki, but here is the original wiki:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12212
In some of my emails with him, he has progressed way past the Datahand controller and has the option of selling it back to them or marketing it on his own. Also, by going through the discussion, there are people to contact that have Datahands that are doing work on them.

Here's "Geofff" from GH:
http://octopup.org/computer/datahand

[Icarium]

Congrats, and it's pretty cool you're taking it entirely apart and getting intimate with it. It'll pay off later. I believe the plastic is ABS. I want to dye mine as well even though it is white since I never take it out of the box.

Well, that might be a problem because AFAIK ABS can't be dyed in the usual way because it warps.

Can you show a top side of the palm rests? They don't use the threaded insert anymore, it just has a locator nub. And they aren't scalloped out on the bottom, just solid material, and very heavy. I am going to try and replicate the palm rests with a mold so I can copy my 'large' palm rests for Hoggy. I think it's just a silicone or latex, but I don't know.

Sure, here you go.

datahand palm pads top

DSC01511palmpads.JPG (322.79 KiB) Viewed 5607 times

Incidentally, I've noticed you haven't yet filled in your adress and working hours; didn't you read the sticky?

Uh...what? Well, I filled in my country, isn't that okay? And what's that about work hours? I actually have not read that sticky it seems.

[Icarium]

>> I'm almost at the end of my keyboarding quest after 3 years. It started out trying to see if I could cut a Kinesis Advantage in half, and the answer is yes. So 3 more things on my list above and I'll retire from the forums. <<

Don't you dare walk out on us after gathering all that knowledge!

Back on topic:
Icarium-
My buddy on GH "Gator456" did a couple major Datahand improvements. One was adding a trackpoint from an IBM KPD8923, and the other was some sophisticated work using Teensy. Look up on GH, or on my "Everything Kinesis Advantage wiki, but here is the original wiki:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12212

I've looked at it before. I'm not quite convinced by the trackpoint placement, it's probably easy to reach but it seems that not having to move your fingers at all is kind of the point of a Datahand.

Here's "Geofff" from GH:
http://octopup.org/computer/datahand

I know this site as well, there really aren't all that many Datahand ressources it seems.
I really like his work, I'm jealous of his mechanical skills, I could never have built that chair mount. The footmouse idea seems totally ridiculous to me but apparently it works.

[Input Nirvana]

Back on topic:
Icarium-
My buddy on GH "Gator456" did a couple major Datahand improvements. One was adding a trackpoint from an IBM KPD8923, and the other was some sophisticated work using Teensy. Look up on GH, or on my "Everything Kinesis Advantage wiki, but here is the original wiki:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12212

I've looked at it before. I'm not quite convinced by the trackpoint placement, it's probably easy to reach but it seems that not having to move your fingers at all is kind of the point of a Datahand.

Yea, placement seems to be the only bummer. But for a guy that is using ice every day and laying on the floor to use his Datahand, if the trackpoint is working for him, it must not be as bad is it seems. The only other option I can think of is to have the Datahand on a pressure sensor to move the mouse, but then you are moving more than just your fingers.

Here's "Geofff" from GH:
http://octopup.org/computer/datahand

I know this site as well, there really aren't all that many Datahand ressources it seems.
I really like his work, I'm jealous of his mechanical skills, I could never have built that chair mount. The footmouse idea seems totally ridiculous to me but apparently it works.

Ergo usually looks goofy. Definitely function over form

*****I HAD TO EDIT THIS PALM PAD INFO...I HAD INCORRECT INFORMATION REGARDING SIZES AND THE GROOVY-GROOVE*****

PALM PAD STUFF (for the more modern Datahands (Personal, Pro, Pro II)
- Sizes: Small and Large. But there is a smaller, undocumented palm pad that is Xtra Small.
- Attachment: Threaded insert now just a ball-shaped nubbin. (this change affected the Datahand unit itself as well).
- Design: Cross-hatched top, some have cross-hatched top with a deep groove around the perimeter of the cross-hatching (not completely sure of this, maybe only the xtra-smalls have the groove, but minor detail and won't affect me molding replacements for people)

I am fixated on the palm pads only because it seems to me that the palm rests are important as part of the fit of the Datahand, and being close the the best size is of some importance, especially for RSI prone individuals. Datahand currently doesn't have large available, small being the only option at this point. Since purchasing used is the only option, it's rare someone has both sizes (I know for a time around 1999 Datahand would send Small and Large with a purchase) and it's a 50-50 shot if it comes with the best size for you.

<I don't really know where it's best to post this, I'm not trying to hijack your thread but I think it has value for some RSI inflicted persons. And since you are documenting tearing yours apart and modifying, it seems you may have an interest as well. Your photo thread may become a repository for some unique Datahand info on the web. Who knows, maybe you need a different size too? Using the pics below, which size do you have?>

Here are some pics Geoff sent me of the 3 sizes of palm rests, and the couple styles. I don't know when (serial #) they changed from the threaded insert to the locator nubbin. In one pic, there is an xtra-small with a scalloped underside and a groove. I had an xtra small, scalloped underside with the groove (circa 2009) and now have a large with no groove and a locator nubbin, so who knows? The groove doesn't matter but having a threaded insert or nubbin affects attachment. (The photos are labeled S-M-L... but that's not how it is....XS-S-L would be more correct).

Datahand--Pads--S-M-L--Side.jpg (58.93 KiB) Viewed 5590 times

Datahand--Pads--S-M-L--Top.jpg (108.01 KiB) Viewed 5590 times

Datahand--Pads--S-M-L--Underneath.jpg (84.3 KiB) Viewed 5590 times

[Icarium]

Aaaaalright... I have put it back together.

a few notes on that:
This is the switch part that was broken. I glued it but as you can see there is still a little gap there because the plastic was so bent.

gluedDSC01530.JPG (323.94 KiB) Viewed 5532 times

I immediately broke that again when putting it back together. It is higher then the rest of the board so if you drop something on it or put it down the wrong way around ...boom.
There might be some clever way to fix this since it only needs to actuate upwards so it might bend in the opposite direction.
I used the needle to get the stem out, again gently but determined will do.
One of the other switches kept sticking so I took it out and sanded down the sides, works fine now

switchesDSC01532.JPG (333.88 KiB) Viewed 5532 times

This is the lever that I glued and the glue I used. The glue worked really well!

leverDSC01534.JPG (353.93 KiB) Viewed 5532 times

I also added a little extra plastic to the bottom to make it a little sturdier. It's pleasantly invisible on the assembled unit.

leverDSC01539.JPG (110.58 KiB) Viewed 5532 times

Now I still have to get used to this and learn to type on it. Need to check the manual for hints about the adjustments, so far they are driving me crazy! Any tips webwit?

BTW I still hate the keyboard mouse and I almost break my lever all over again every time I reach for my other mouse...

[webwit]

You should use the levers I sent you, those are newer style and don't lock your thumb in as much as the older ones. I wonder if Datahand can help you with the stem part?

I used TypeFaster to learn two keys at a time up to 50wpm. Don't force it, and let go of using it like a normal keyboard... for me at the beginning it was difficult just to keep my hands still and not strike the keys but tap. One puts force into operating a keyboard, this is counter productive with the DataHand. The reward comes later, when you get up to speed and notice your hands are resting and just your fingers wriggling. And in case it turns out it's not your thing after all, repair that stem better and sell it for profit!

[Input Nirvana]

RSI=Datahand HAS to work out. It's the last stop before verbal. So if it takes a year...it's only a year

[Icarium]

Is S not supposed to work as middle mouse?

I've followed the instructions for setting up the finger board now. Let's see how this works out. I feel like I have to small fingers.
I am still messing with the legs as well.

The broken stem seems to hold up fine but otherwise I would probably try to contact the guy whose website was linked to above. He seems to have a bucket of datahands for replacements. But as I said it's fine, that glue is really awesome.

[Icarium]

Okay, changed the lever. The stem really holds quite well. I have yet to find all the keys though....

Ah here: ^^

[Icarium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzFqEqzhmA

"There are two sizes of palm rests available: small and large!"

heehee

Seriously though, input nirvana if you could make copies of the different palm rests that would be awesome. I would love to try them out.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm going to get a pair of large palmrests to Hoggy, the man paid so much for his Datahand, he deserves a "large" hand! Get it? Get it? Huh?

I'm hoping to have some routine aspects of my life settle down very soon. That will allow me to rejoin the human race and do cool things again...it's been a while since I've had a real smile on my face. But that means a period over the next 1-3 months.

I'd like to figure out what the palmrests are made of (latex, silicone, or whatever) and then try casting the large I traded for since Datahand doesn't seem to have any more as of last summer. I have been motivated to do this since I saw the "Make your own key caps" thread on GH. Did you look at the side view to determine what size you have? Maybe take a height measurement at a specific location and we can compare with my known 'large' and Hoggy's to figure it out.

EDIT-
I was thinking of making the palmrests from black material...for obvious reasons.

Datahand palmrest measure.jpg (68.89 KiB) Viewed 5479 times

[webwit]

Middle mouse button activation, see page 42, option M.

[hoggy]

Oh well,

It looks like I've already got the large pads. Mine are clearly the same as the one on the right.

It's about 5mm.

Black sounds like exactly the right choice, I'd be interested in a black pair, even in the same size.

[Icarium]

I definitely have the leftmost ones...


aaaand I totally just turned the middle mouse button on.

Should probably switch layouts as well. I suppose learning a new one for this thing might be useful and potentially easier.

[Input Nirvana]

Datahand layout changing. Interesting.

Webwit uses Colemak, Hoggy uses Dvorak, and I just look at my Datahand box occasionally. I forgot if I asked Webwit if he thinks the layout change makes much of a difference with Datahand.

There was a guy that posted on GH a few times that claimed to be so old school Datahand tester, and he filed off the landing pads for the down stroke on Datahand. I forgot the layout he used, it starts with a "B" and it uses more keystrokes on the bottom row, which he said works better with Datahand because of it's design.

[webwit]

Should matter much less than with conventional keyboards because there is no hand movement. Still better to have the most used keys on the stronger fingers, I think.

[Input Nirvana]

Found it!

burro volando said:
"The Blickensderfer DHIATENSOR layout would probably be the best layout on the DataHand keyboard"

Blickensderfer.png (8.74 KiB) Viewed 5426 times

More info (the ONLY info...lol):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blickensderfer_typewriter

[webwit]

Interesting, especially since I consider the center keys to work "best", although south is not bad either. I never gave it much thought. That layout even prefers weaker finger south keys over center keys.

[Input Nirvana]

I had meant to throw that out to you a year ago since I knew you already used Colemak.

And now...for my next trick....

What do you think about one side of the Datahand unit placed on a trackpoint...let's not concern ourselves with whatever engineering may need to take place at this time. To 'lean' on the Datahand unit in the direction you want the pointer to go....thoughts?

[webwit]

My thought is this is like in the first patent, and they abandoned the idea (together with micro switches).

[Input Nirvana]

Burro volando mentioned that. I think he said that was the primary way of mousing and the 'key switch' was supplementary.

I will look for a trackpoint that is cross-platform (windows/Mac) and see what can be done. A few experiments and it could be good to go. Would probably need to press a switch at the same time to activate mousing, otherwise the mouse would be moving all the time.

[Input Nirvana]

There are 2 types of trackpoint technologies. One is IBM which is a strain gauge. I have one of these on a KPD8923.

If anyone has any thoughts or knowledge on this or can offer any ideas, please post. I know Icarium would be interested, look what he's doing to the Webhand.

[Icarium]

We need somebody bold enough to drill out one of the middle switches and insert a trackpoint.

Another question for webwit. How do you deal with the different layers? I am having serious trouble remembering whether 10-K & P is on or off and it makes touch typing e.g. () next to impossible.

That I would be rich if I had a cent for every time I tried to type in mouse mode goes without saying!

[Input Nirvana]

Icarium, explain where/how you see the trackpoint fitting. You mean IN a fingerwell? Gator456 did his OUT of the fingerwell. So are you meaning just off center from a down key...a notch cut out of a down key?

[Icarium]

No, just replace one of the down keys...
Potentially another key would still have to be pressed when mousing in case the surrounding switches get activated a lot.

[Input Nirvana]

Yes, I believe another key would need to be activated...otherwise dual input.

I can't 'see' it, there seems to be not enough room in a fingerwell. Plus, would some switch hardware be in the way? I'm looking at pics right now...maybe need to see the fingerwell without the down key installed.

[webwit]

Mode switching might be the more difficult thing to get in your system. I mostly shift only to 10k pad instead of switch, for cursor keys and numbers. An onscreen indicator might be more handy than looking down. I almost never look down, but just tap the normal code thumb key if I'm not sure what mode I'm in.

I like this trackpoint implementation.

[Input Nirvana]

Gator456 did a very clean job on that, very meticulous. He used one of the IBM KPD8923 we did a massive buy on.

Depending on how a trackpoint would be used, we would not be limited to the full keyboard KPD8923...we could use almost any trackpoint from a laptop (short pointing stick).

[Icarium]

This keyboard is total crap. I can't use it to play SpaceChem because I can't click and press keys with my left hand at once!