Alps restoration guide

[Chyros]

Over the course of the previous weeks I've released a series of videos on how to restore Alps switches, including an experimental lube guide; be sure to check it out if you haven't yet: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... BSWbSz25vI

[Obscure]

Brilliant and satisfactorily exhaustive as always, especially the click on release fix was very helpful - thank you so much.

I'm just wondering why you did not mention the possibility to clean the contacts directly when the switch does not register any more, not just with compressed air but e.g. moving a piece of paper between the contacts - or did I miss something?
I agree on it's easier to desolder and swap with a working one. But I wanted to keep my board as original as possible, thus I did not want to solder. So I gave it a try. To be honest, on one switch I had to do it for three times and I don't know if I rubbed off the gold plating and shortened the switches TLL massively - but it was not working anyhow.

In this business you always have to consider the risks. You clearly boil it down to the sentence: If it isn't broken, don't attempt to fix it".
But if it is broken yet the strategy should be the logic conclusion of "rule No. 1". To go from soft to invasive. I would consider pulling a piece of paper between the contacts a soft method, but breaking the housing when opening the switch for the third time will tell you took the wrong decision (mine didn't, luckily). Keeping in mind to rethink strategies from time to time.

For lubing I used Dry lube chain spray with PTFE as seen with others - at least it did not make it worse.

cheers

[daguil68367]

Does anyone know if you would be able to use the IPA suspension method with the tungsten disulfide powder, like how it was done with the PTFE powder?

[SneakyRobb]

I liked this, but part 4 is incomplete without mayonnaise and toothpaste test data. No internet test is complete without these 2 essential materials.

*Obviously good job and very informative otherwise

[Polecat]

I liked this, but part 4 is incomplete without mayonnaise and toothpaste test data. No internet test is complete without these 2 essential materials.

As contaminants, or as lube?

[CountNoctua]

I liked this, but part 4 is incomplete without mayonnaise and toothpaste test data. No internet test is complete without these 2 essential materials.

You're thinking of thermal paste testing.

[Obscure]

Bacteriostatic lube minimizes the risk of bacterial infections and fungus in the slw̶itch.

[andrewjoy]

I have done that with IPA a few times before installing the CPU .

You would be surprised how may so called "dead" boards come to life after that.

[SneakyRobb]

I liked this, but part 4 is incomplete without mayonnaise and toothpaste test data. No internet test is complete without these 2 essential materials.

You're thinking of thermal paste testing.

Exactly! What if mayo really does work for Alps?

Or toothpaste, it could also work to keep it clean.
Just like thermal paste tests

QCqH3va.gif (44.84 KiB) Viewed 11387 times

[andrewjoy]

Not surprised a rosewill product is worse than toohpaste.

Myself i use thermal grizzly ( the paste not the liquid metal) for my high end stuff, and GD-900 from china for lower end stuff/ work, that stuff is as good as MX-4 but you can get about half a ton of it for the price of a tube of MX-4

[CountNoctua]

I use Noctua NT-H1 and NT-H2. It's one the best overall in terms of ease of application, no burn-in required, and performance. Thermal Grizzly is better but not as easy to apply, plus Noctua includes the paste with their coolers, so I usually have at least one tube on hand. (speaking of which, my new blacked out U12S just came in ).

[andrewjoy]

my new blacked out U12S just came in ).

Stay true to the beige and brown! I love noctua and how they do business. They refused flat out to do blacked out coolers until they could work out a way to not loose performance from raw nickle plated copper.

[NeK]

I just want to share my own experience and results with lubing, and to also hope that someone can help me out.

Here it goes, I have 3 blue ALPS boards, 2 with great/excellent condition switches and 1 that has at best mediocre. I try to restore them to a better condition, so I followed the lubrication guide you made Chyros, and tried on some of its Blue ALPS switches the following:

1. Tungsten Disulfide: http://wolfbloodracing.com/ (http://wolfbloodracing.com/wp-content/u ... 68x446.jpg)
2. Silverhook SGPT90 Silicon grease: https://silverhook.co.uk/grease/Grease- ... 80-ml-80ml
3. GearAid Silicon grease: https://www.gearaid.com/products/lubric ... one-grease
4. And a Silicone Spray: a random silicone spray that I bought 2 years ago (Svitol Silikon Spray). I didn't use it as is, but instead sprayed some in a small cup, and let it dry, and then applied that with my small brush. Here is a picture of it:

svitol-silikon-spray.jpg (30.42 KiB) Viewed 10127 times

After a thorough cleaning with denture tabs the top housings and sliders (thus removing any factory lubricant) I applied them on several switches with various ways and here are the (surprising!) results that I got while comparing them to the other original switches:

1. Tungsten Disulfide: made it way worse. The switch on off-center presses was binding like an unmovable stone and was terribly scratchy with on center presses. Awful.
2. Silverhook Silicon Grease: did absolutely nothing. It had the exact same feeling and sound and behaviour as before lubrication.
3. GearAid Silicon Grease: Also, did nothing as the Silverhook one.
4. Spray Silicone: surprisingly this one worked well. Made it very smooth, eliminated any resistance and scratchiness in the off-center presses and generally made it very smooth. BUT that lasts only for about 1-2 days of use and then slightly starts to loose its smoothness and starts to slightly bind in off-center presses and the smoothness fades away.

Other lubricants that I tried (Krytox 104, Spray with PTFE and Dry Graphite) were either not doing anything, or making them worse. Therefore all my tests were a failure and now I am left even more confused than I was. How come that the tungsten disulphide was making them much worse instead of smoother and why the only one that did work, at least for a while, was the Silicone Spray, which is rather odd and I can't explain how that one worked and why the Silicone Greases did not.

[Raumfahrer]

I can verify that the silicon lube (and variations) does work well and for a short time period which is unfortunate

edit:
even "The Lube" had the same longevity effects

the overall conclusion for me was stripping the factory lube is a terrible idea (so ultrasonic on sliders is bad) - this assumes the sliders are in overall decent condition to begin with

also any lube placed over this will just be better overall (effects depend on taste etc...) I personally thought the Krytox or Trib stuff was ok (as long as slider was not stripped) so if you just want to lube things for the heck of it, then go ahead

[Chyros]

Interesting, so both your findings are the same as mine ^^ . AND Alps', I guess! xD

[JP!]

Does anyone have any insights into the original lubricants used by Alps?

[kelvinhall05]

Does anyone have any insights into the original lubricants used by Alps?

No, we need someone with $$$ to hire a lab to investigate it lol

[Chyros]

Does anyone have any insights into the original lubricants used by Alps?

The only info is a quote I have from a former Alps worker at the Milton Keynes factory. He told me "The lubricant used was a lubricant made to JIS spec (Japanese Industrial Spec) maybe containing some silicone".

I'd investigate it myself but I don't have an ICP in my lab xD .

[NeK]

And lets say that we do find an ICP and we find that it has some mixture of whatever chemical. How probable is it to discern the original chemical composition that resulted into that? Or even if we be able to find any existing lube that is close to it chemically? Somehow I doubt that we can do that easily, if at all. Am I right?

[abrahamstechnology]

I've had good luck with "WD-40 Specialist with PTFE"
It leave a slightly oily film instead of being completely dry like Dupont PTFE i've tried, it seems to work well.
I put some on the Caps Lock switch of my yellow Alps64 (mapped to fn) to stop it from binding and it hasn't lost it's smoothness.

[OldIsNew]

I've had good luck with "WD-40 Specialist with PTFE"
It leave a slightly oily film instead of being completely dry like Dupont PTFE i've tried, it seems to work well...

I second this one. I've used this on a number of different switch types with good results including complicated Alps and some crazy squeaky Datanetics DC-60s on a Fluke board. It seems to last (at least a couple months so far) and I've actually seen improvement in the switch feel over the first week or so after application. I haven't been spraying the switches directly but have been spraying it in a small cup and then applying to the switches with a cotton swab to avoid over spray. I have also been swabbing the switches with 91% IPA prior to applying the WD-40. Also, I think it is important though to be clear that it's not the regular blue can WD-40 spray, but the plastic safe silicone lube version.

WD.jpg (47.33 KiB) Viewed 9901 times

[Chyros]

And lets say that we do find an ICP and we find that it has some mixture of whatever chemical. How probable is it to discern the original chemical composition that resulted into that? Or even if we be able to find any existing lube that is close to it chemically? Somehow I doubt that we can do that easily, if at all. Am I right?

Yes, this is true. However, elemental analysis using ICP will at least tell me if it's silicone, silicone and something else, or not silicone-based at all (in case of a mixture, I should be able to tell how much silicone is in there). It will also tell me whether it contains any PTFE or similar materials, although I highly doubt that it would. You'd need further testing, and especially quite detailed expertise, in order to tell what the exact composition is, especially if it's a mixture in which case it'd be quite difficult. Personally I reckon it's just spray-coated, matricised silicone oil (which would make it very similar to silicone grease). But until we can test it, it's impossible to say, of course . This is just my hunch.

[4sStylZ]

I have many alps salmon, cream dampened and white dampened to lube. They are in very bad condition.

I want to try wd-40 specialized lubes too after reading this post (and all of the Chyros video, thank you my dude !) but there is two different lube designed here :  @abraham speak about "WD-40 Specialist with PTFE" and @Old is new speak about the WD-40 Specialist water resistant silicon lubrifiant.

That's two different product, wich one did you suggest ? PTFE ? Silicon ? Both ?

[NeK]

To add to the confusion: Also in europe at least, there's the specialist high performance silicone instead of the Water resistant silicone one.

Anyway regardless I ordered both the silicone and the PTFE ones, along with a FinishLine Dry Teflon (DuPont rebranded supposedly) tube and I will test them and report back soon.

[NeK]

Just wanted to add that I may have come close to a really important observation. Smoothing and polishing the housing rails and the slider rails seems to be more important regardless of the lubricant.

Will get back with more results.

[OldIsNew]

  @abraham speak about "WD-40 Specialist with PTFE" and @Old is new speak about the WD-40 Specialist water resistant silicon lubrifiant.

That's two different product, wich one did you suggest ? PTFE ? Silicon ? Both ?

My bad for being confusing. I've used the WD-40 Silicone spray not the PTFE version. So I too, am very curious to see how you think they compare!

[4sStylZ]

Ok,

A little bit more confusion :
Here in France there is another one wich is "3-en-un technique Lubrifiant sec au PTFE". The brand is different but it's manufactured by WD-40 company. This means "3-in-1 technical PTFE dry lube".
I personally have very bad result with this. The spray is supposed to make a light dry coat but 2 days later it's basically shit.

How do you polish the housing ? What tools did you use ?

[NeK]

Ok,

A little bit more confusion :
Here in France there is another one wich is "3-en-un technique Lubrifiant sec au PTFE". The brand is different but it's manufactured by WD-40 company. This means "3-in-1 technical PTFE dry lube".
I personally have very bad result with this. The spray is supposed to make a light dry coat but 2 days later it's basically shit.

How do you polish the housing ? What tools did you use ?

3in1 is a known brand and it doesnt matter if it is manufactured by wd40 or anyone else as the chemical mixture probably is different to the wd40 specialist one. (Of course it may be the same but I doubt it)

The trick I guess is for the dry film to stick into place and stay there for good.

BTW: One specific property that the factory lubricant does have , which any other lube I tried didn't, is that is minimizing the static friction (i.e. the resistance it has before it gives and starts sliding). However, it seems that it can't minimize the kinetic friction afterwards as well (i.e. when it actually slides) if the plastics have gone bad. And by bad I mean having their surfaces getting rough. This is probably the issue that ALPS have in general; their surface must be getting rougher as they age.

I need more data to back up this "theory" and this is why I wait for those lubes to come in.

[NeK]

Interesting, so both your findings are the same as mine ^^ . AND Alps', I guess! xD

Reading your comment again I am now not sure if you were just being sarcastic. To be clear my findings are contrary to yours. Tungsten Disulfide made them way worse and all the silicone greases that I tried did nothing at all. Whereas in your tests results in your video you state that you found Tungsten Disulfide to work and is more closer to the original lube from all the other lubes and also that the silicone grease works well too.

[Raumfahrer]

Just wanted to add that I may have come close to a really important observation. Smoothing and polishing the housing rails and the slider rails seems to be more important regardless of the lubricant.

Will get back with more results.

hi, interesting observation here -
What is the method by which you do this?